…and this is a 
Put the blame where it belongs: God and the Republican Party
Category: Creationism
Posted on: August 11, 2006 5:47 AM, by PZ Myers
We are so screwed.
That's the result of a new survey of people's attitudes toward evolution. Notice where the United States lies: nearly dead last. We beat Turkey.
There was more to this study than just asking whether a person agreed with the statement that "Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals." They also collected other data on age, gender, education, genetic literacy, religious belief, attitude toward life, attitude toward science and technology, belief in science and technology, reservations about science and technology, and political ideology, and carried out a statistical analysis to determine the relative contribution of these variables to ignorance about evolution.
I'm sure you can all guess what the number one biggest obstacle to accepting evolution was.
The total effect of fundamentalist religious beliefs on attitude toward evolution (using a standardized metric) was nearly twice as much in the United States as in the nine European countries (path coefficients of -0.42 and -0.24, respectively), which indicates that individuals who hold a strong belief in a personal God and who pray frequently were significantly less likely to view evolution as probably or definitely true than adults with less conservative religious views.
The number two problem?
Second, the evolution issue has been politicized and incorporated into the current partisan division in the United States in a manner never seen in Europe or Japan. In the second half of the 20th century, the conservative wing of the Republican Party has adopted creationism as a part of a platform designed to consolidate their support in southern and Midwestern states—the "red" states. In the 1990s, the state Republican platforms in seven states included explicit demands for the teaching of "creation science". There is no major political party in Europe or Japan that uses opposition to evolution as a part of its political platform.
On the positive side, one factor that improves the acceptance of evolution is genetic literacy, and the authors advocate improved science education in our public schools. We need it, desperately.
It appears that many of these adults have adopted a human exceptionalism perspective. Elements of this perspective can be seen in the way that many adults try to integrate modern genetics into their understanding of life. For example, only a third of American adults agree that more than half of human genes are identical to those of mice and only 38% of adults recognize that humans have more than half of their genes in common with chimpanzees. In other studies, fewer than half of American adults can provide a minimal definition of DNA. Thus, it is not surprising that nearly half of the respondents in 2005 were not sure about the proportion of human genes that overlap with mice or chimpanzees.
Nick Matzke has more to say on this part of the work)
Despite the good suggestion about improving education, the paper ends on a grim and pessimistic note. Like I said, we are so screwed.
The politicization of science in the name of religion and political partisanship is not new to the United States, but transformation of traditional geographically and economically based political parties into religiously oriented ideological coalitions marks the beginning of a new era for science policy. The broad public acceptance of the benefits of science and technology in the second half of the 20th century allowed science to develop a nonpartisan identification that largely protected it from overt partisanship. That era appears to have closed.
Hmmm. I wonder what the Discovery Institute thinks of all this. Let's ask Bruce Chapman!
"A better explanation for the high percentage of doubters of Darwinism in America may be that this country's citizens are famously independent and are not given to being rolled by an ideological elite in any field," Chapman said. "In particular, the growing doubts about Darwinism undoubtedly reflect growing doubts among scientists about Darwinian theory. Over 640 have now signed a public dissent and the number keeps growing."
I think the study shows precisely the opposite effect. Americans are being rolled in large numbers by an ideological 'elite' nested in our churches and in the Republican party—the reason we are falling so far behind in our understanding of the biological sciences is that political and religious authority figures are lying to the people and fostering ignorance, and Americans are dumbly falling for it…and the more ignorant they are, the more they depend on those false authorities.
Americans aren't second to last because they are "famously independent." They're failing biology because they're god-soaked sheep, and the Republican party has exploited that failing.
By the way, I am quoted on Fox News on this one. That feels…strange.
Miller JD, Scott EC, Okamoto S (2006) Public acceptance of evolution. Science 313:765-766.
Comments
If you think being quoted by FOX is odd wait until O'Reily invites you on his show. I can imagine the storm that will cause:
O'Reily - *Spews a load of tribalist pseudo-religious propaganda*
PZ = "Well Bill, the issue here is that you do not understand what you are talking about and your deep-seated habit of anti-intellectuallism will not allow you to accept correction from those more knowlagable than you.
It is now time for you to spit and logically fallacious, emotionally charged bit of invective at me to sate your revenge fanticies. Begiiiiiiin now!"
Posted by: Puskara | August 11, 2006 6:01 AM
Nah, they're quoting some guy called Paul Meyers. Must be a different fellow.
Posted by: Ithika | August 11, 2006 6:08 AM
Wow. The FOX article was actually surprisingly well-written. The creationists only got that one quote in. The rest was all about how they're completely and totally wrong and we have to stop them. That's amazing for any media source, and even more incredible for FOX. It's the occasional bit like this that gives me hope that we're not as screwed as the surveys would suggest.
Posted by: Anne Nonymous | August 11, 2006 6:09 AM
The Fox article was taken straight from Live Science -- give them the credit. Fox just didn't have time to put together the usual spin.
Posted by: PZ Myers![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/nav-commenters.gif)
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August 11, 2006 6:11 AM
I am shocked. Not by the US statistics, as we all know the US of A is a Christian fundamental society (I pity thee...)
Most of all I am shocked by the European statistics. In my own country, the Netherlands, still more than 20% does not believe in evolution. Our educational system has failed!
Posted by: Jan Kees | August 11, 2006 6:57 AM
So much for that whole "best and the brightest", can-do American spirit America thing, eh? It's in everything, every damn thing, we are just becoming the world's laugh-stock and our entire legacy has been destroyed. We can talk all we like about how it can all be fixed, but no one's going to do that, are they?
(Yes, it's odd, isn't it? Although I've had calls from just about every sort of news organ over here, Fox News is the only American network that has ever interviewed me about anything.)
Posted by: Avedon | August 11, 2006 7:07 AM
It's so sad, especially because that won't sway hard-core Creationists at all. For them, all it will do is prove that they're right, everyone else is wrong, and the rest of the world is against them and they have to fight even harder.
Posted by: Carlie | August 11, 2006 7:14 AM
"Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals."
Bulgaria appears to have the highest percentage of correct answers.
---
Does anyone believe that the statement is absolutely without any doubt 100% true? If so, is that a scientific belief?
Posted by: i dunno | August 11, 2006 7:27 AM
I just have to (mis)quote old Mark Twain:
...lies, damned lies, and creationism...
Posted by: Magnus | August 11, 2006 7:46 AM
Interesting phrase in the supporting on line material:
"an individual has a gender and an age at birth"
well I guess it is true...
Posted by: Mark Frank | August 11, 2006 7:49 AM
"Most of all I am shocked by the European statistics. In my own country, the Netherlands, still more than 20% does not believe in evolution. Our educational system has failed!"
I agree with this, but it is not a matter of believing in evolution - you don't have to believe, you have to understand and know about it.
which comes to Idunno
"Does anyone believe that the statement is absolutely without any doubt 100% true? If so, is that a scientific belief?"
The evidence is so overwhelming, that we are as sure about evolution as we are about anything, which is as close to 100% confidence in the theory as anything gets. But it is not a belief in the sense religious people use it.
Posted by: oldhippie | August 11, 2006 7:49 AM
Not given to being rolled by an ideological elite in any field.
We Americans prefer to be rolled by dishonest, stupid, lowlife mercenaries like Chapman.
Posted by: John Emerson | August 11, 2006 7:49 AM
Wow, PZ--they got your name right 50% of the time. For them, it's not bad.
[and now I shall go put bourbon in my morning coffee and weep for my nation's future]
Posted by: ChrisTheRed | August 11, 2006 7:50 AM
Here's
Minister does something incredibly stupid and lives, snake does something natural and dies,...
Posted by: Pharma Bawd | August 11, 2006 8:00 AM
Scroll down and check out the Homicide Rates Per 100,000 inhabitants
http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/featured_articles/v12n03_are_religious_societies_healthier.html
I'm not saying that there's a direct causality between countries populated by the cast of Deliverance and murder rates, but it might be worth considering.
Posted by: Rodney Anonymous | August 11, 2006 8:07 AM
"Most of all I am shocked by the European statistics. In my own country, the Netherlands, still more than 20% does not believe in evolution. Our educational system has failed!"
It's probably just one of many indications of the trouble we have gotten the Dutch educational system into. Different causes, same shitty results. Only in the last year a counter movement has started stirring and getting press. We'll be needing decades to repair the damage.......
Posted by: skblllzzzz | August 11, 2006 8:08 AM
Does anyone know what Iceland's immigration policy is?
Oh, and pass the FRENCH fries please...
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | August 11, 2006 8:13 AM
Hey Turkey, you are pnwed! Nyah nyah!
(Hey, it's only human to try to salvage something from the wreck...)
If I have grandkids, they're going to live in a much poorer (and probably even more ignorant) country. That makes me sad.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 8:18 AM
"Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals."
Bulgaria appears to have the highest percentage of correct answers.
---
Does anyone believe that the statement is absolutely without any doubt 100% true? If so, is that a scientific belief?
Posted by: i dunno | August 11, 2006 07:27 AM
What does it mean to be "100% true"? Are some statements "47% true"?
The statement in question is an inference based upon mountains of data and a scientific theory that has been supported by 150 years of research. Are you going to start debating the difference between "inferences" and "beliefs"? I think most scientists would welcome that discussion. Certainly the American public could use a little bit of education on that issue.
Posted by: RickD | August 11, 2006 8:24 AM
Ok damn it I'll be the one
I wonder what Steve thinks of that statement.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 11, 2006 8:24 AM
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 8:33 AM
oldhippe said:
The evidence is so overwhelming, that we are as sure about evolution as we are about anything, which is as close to 100% confidence in the theory as anything gets. But it is not a belief in the sense religious people use it.
You belief sounds like a religious belief to me. You have a theory that is consistent with the evidence. Therefore that theory must be true?
we are as sure about evolution as we are about anything That was meant to be a massive exaggeration, right? Anything? I think not. Not even close.
I think, therefore I am. You? i dunno.
Posted by: i dunno | August 11, 2006 8:42 AM
You dunno very much, troll. Go play in traffic.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 8:44 AM
Let's qualifiy that just a hair ..
The evidence is so overwhelming, that we are as sure about evolution as we are about any scientific theory.
There, Happy? i dunno?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 11, 2006 8:49 AM
"You belief sounds like a religious belief to me. You have a theory that is consistent with the evidence. Therefore that theory must be true?"
Wait, I know the punchline to this one. One has a really old book of mythology that says it's the truth, therefore it must be true?
What, exactly, sounds like a "religious belief"? I'd really like to know how having solid evidence and making judgements based on that evidence is even remotely akin to believing in gods which lack any evidence at all.
Posted by: Lya Kahlo | August 11, 2006 8:51 AM
Riiiiiight. The hammer falls every time I let go of it, therefore my belief in gravity is religious. Funny.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | August 11, 2006 8:51 AM
Americans are being rolled in large numbers by an ideological 'elite' nested in our churches and in the Republican party--the reason we are falling so far behind in our understanding of the biological sciences is that political and religious authority figures are lying to the people and fostering ignorance, and Americans are dumbly falling for it...and the more ignorant they are, the more they depend on those false authorities.
PZ, a very perceptive conclusion. No doubt a similar red-blue chart indicating the level of belief that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 bombings would be even more stark, with the US alone at the bottom.
The Republicans have found that catering to fear (of Islamofascists, gays, enviros and liberals), patriotism and ignorance are helpful ways to stay in power. And the party itself has become increasingly corrupt and adept at handing out pork, tax, regulatory and other favors to big business and special interests (including themselves). Ignorance and arrogant self-deception rule.
Posted by: TokyoTom | August 11, 2006 8:55 AM
Should USA still count as a developed country, given results like this ?
Posted by: T_U_T | August 11, 2006 9:11 AM
The liberals aren't much better, TokyoTom. That is not a defense of conservatives, but a condemnation of the liberals.
Posted by: Caledonian | August 11, 2006 9:11 AM
I think this makes the United States the Alabama of nations. Turkey is to the US as Mississippi is to Alabama. (Or, as they say in Alabama when any ranking of states appears, "Thank g*d for Mississippi.")
Posted by: Mark Paris | August 11, 2006 9:12 AM
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 9:13 AM
While the US may be the only country where evolution is a political issue, it is hardly the only country where science is under threat by politics. Many European political parties have positions against genetic manipulation and animal research; we may face a future in which research on evolution is impossible for ideological reasons in the US and, in the case of experimental evolutionary research, for technical reasons in Europe. Then perhaps China will be the Mecca for science.
Posted by: Jonathan Badger | August 11, 2006 9:19 AM
I dunno writes, "We are as sure about evolution as we are about anything That was meant to be a massive exaggeration, right? Anything? I think not. Not even close."
I'll give idunno a small bit of credit here. Yes, I am more certain of a large variety of simpler, more directly observable claims: that squids have beaks, that people are born small babies, and grow into larger adults, that the moon goes through its phases every four weeks, give or take a some hours.
But now the well-deserved criticism: read in context! It shouldn't take much effort to read that as: We are as sure about evolution as we are about any scientific theory about the world. Such as quantum mechanics or the atomic theory of elements.
Posted by: Russell | August 11, 2006 9:24 AM
I'm also interested in the immigration politics of Iceland. It doesn't so cold after all...
Jan Kees, I'm equally shocked at the position of Holland on the list. However, might it have something to do with the number of immigrant (allochtonen, in Dutch) with more fundamentalist religious views? I realize I risk criticism for this remark, but it might explain the outcome.
Posted by: makhita | August 11, 2006 9:35 AM
I would love to see the different contributions of the collected variables and other similar statistics.
Iceland and Japan ranks high - no surprise there.
Of the countries I have some firsthand experience with, Norway is below other nordic countries which isn't surprising considering that religion has a stronger basis there. But what can explain Finland, which considering its enterprizing inhabitants is the France or Italy of the nordic countries?
And WTF can explain Switzerland and Austria abysmal ranking?
Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson | August 11, 2006 9:40 AM
Can someone explain why Bruce Chapman & company themselves aren't "the elite"?
There's also the meaning:...which Chapman must insist the DI crowd is.
Just saw on C-Span linguist & reporter G. Nunberg discussing his book on this.
Posted by: Foggg | August 11, 2006 9:42 AM
Uhh, where is the rest of the world in this survey ... or I should say, where is 'most' of the world in this survey? Perhaps including the whole of South America, or the whole of Africa, or the Middle East, or China, or India, or Southeast Asia, or ... would have ruined the desired results.
Posted by: Bro. Bartleby | August 11, 2006 9:42 AM
"The liberals aren't much better, TokyoTom."
In what alternate universe is this?
Posted by: Lya Kahlo | August 11, 2006 9:43 AM
Riiiiiight. The hammer falls every time I let go of it, therefore my belief in gravity is religious. Funny.
Believing that there is a force that we choose to call gravity and can model in specific ways that is consistent with observed results and is a useful tool for predicting future events would be a scientific belief.
I am surer that the hammer will fall every time than I am about evolution. Lots more observations and much more repeatable.
Posted by: i dunno | August 11, 2006 9:44 AM
"Should USA still count as a developed country, given results like this ?"
With the preponderance of people in this nation siding with the likes of "I dunno", no, we don't qualify as a developed country. With regards to general knowledge of science amongst the rank and file, I'd not be surpised if we were middle of the pack at best in our own hemisphere. Fitting I suppose since the current administration wants to run the country like some oversized bananna republic.
Posted by: paleotn | August 11, 2006 9:46 AM
Q : And WTF can explain Switzerland and Austria abysmal ranking?
A : For austria it is loads of fascisoid blockheads with fundamentalist flavour.
.
I live in a country right next to austria on the map and to the switzerland in the ranking, and here it is much the same.
Posted by: T_U_T | August 11, 2006 9:46 AM
install this software and you can observe evolution more often than you can see a hammer falling.
Posted by: T_U_T | August 11, 2006 9:55 AM
Thorbjörn: "Norway is below other nordic countries which isn't surprising considering that religion has a stronger basis there."
It's sort of surprising since we've got a state church that support evolution. I would have thought norway to be further up, at least over the UK and France. The fundies that support creationism in Norway are mostly situated in the south and the west. I always had the impression that Norway was more secular than Sweden, but i guess i was wrong. We do both have our share of loons though (Carola, Runar Søgaard, Arild Edvardsen, and that Knutby minister, although I do not know where they stand on evolution)
Posted by: Magnus | August 11, 2006 9:55 AM
i dunno is just cleverly providing us with a physical manifestation of the very problems enumerated by the study. Nice example! Thanks. You can quit now and come back to the world of the rational.
Posted by: Carlie | August 11, 2006 10:14 AM
I'm not certain but I think that Finland had some really rough time in the first 60-70% of the 1900... This made the church stronger and the schools maybe not as good...
But they are doing really well now in the school system, kind of took the best from the other Nordic countries and stayed away from all the socialist air headed wives... So I expect them to top this ranking in about 40 years...
Posted by: Magnus W | August 11, 2006 10:16 AM
I'm surer of scientific results than introspection, observation, Moorean truths, mathematical truths, logical truths and my own existence. So there.
Posted by: poke | August 11, 2006 10:17 AM
Cheer up, people. It's worse than we thought--but nowhere to go but up! Right? (Oh, uh, or to Turkey.)
It would have been interesting to include the rest of the world--in particular Iraq, Iran, the U.A.E., or Saudi Arabia. Considering how likely it is that the populations of these countries accept evolutionary theory, that would really drive a stake in the heart of Bush's war for civilization talk. They hate us for our freedom! Right. We're so friggin' different from these Third-World countries.
Posted by: Kristine | August 11, 2006 10:21 AM
But what can explain Finland, which considering its enterprizing inhabitants is the France or Italy of the nordic countries?
Oh, the shame :(
More Finns believe in a personal God than in the other Nordic countries (but still a minority, ca. 1/3). Perhaps the personal beliefs produce a bit more evolution-doubters, since any "creationist movement" is as feeble as in the other Nordic countries?
Posted by: windy | August 11, 2006 10:34 AM
Where is Canada in all this? Nary a mention in this poll. I feel disingenuous now...but FWIW, as a Canadian married to a Dane, I'll put my sentiments in with the Danish...
Posted by: Steve Patterson | August 11, 2006 10:41 AM
In purely PR terms, Miller scores the best hit, I think:
...and this is the sort of soundbite one-liner that is more likely to stick in the minds of the ordinary listener...
Posted by: Ian H Spedding | August 11, 2006 10:41 AM
Perhaps when evolution actually lives up to scientific standards (i.e. being repeatable under controlled conditions), people will be more likely to buy into it.
The American people have been asked to accept something that can't be repeated, has tremedous gaps in its theory, and still, to this day, cannot answer the most basic fundamental questions: How did life begin and why am I here.
In other words, all of you secularists and humanists are asking the American people to have faith in what you can't conclusively prove. Oops, sounds an awful lot like RELIGION to me. At least religionists are honest about it...
Posted by: None | August 11, 2006 10:45 AM
You know, what's really interesting is that the US is basically equally split. 40% accept evolution with 40% denying it, and 20% left over undecided.
That's pretty damned interesting evidence that evolution denial is a political issue in this country. Amazing that the numbers would mirror party membership so closely. I'd like to see a poll comparing the percentage of registered Democrats who accept evolution with the percentage of registered Republicans who do. Assuming it hasn't been done already.
Posted by: Joshua | August 11, 2006 10:47 AM
Is there such thing as "belief in an impersonal god"?
And why is the US the only country from the Americas?
Just wondering.
Posted by: Kaethe | August 11, 2006 10:53 AM
Just for fun, I did a quick grab of the data in this chart, and ran it against the murder rates for these countries. (insert enormous disclaimer here about loosness of data, additional disclaimer-I not statistician) There is a positive correlation here-very slight-between evolution=false and the murder rate. I'll have to dig out the fraud rates as well-should be interesting.
Posted by: Dale Austin | August 11, 2006 10:58 AM
Kaethe:
The study only aims at countries in the "Western European mold": Turkey, being on the cup of Europe and Asia serves as hyrbid state. It would be interesting see South America included.
As for me, I became physically ill after hearing this story on NPR.
Posted by: Noah Kunin | August 11, 2006 11:06 AM
Another demonstration why we rank so low.
God of the gaps much?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | August 11, 2006 11:06 AM
I wonder what Francis Collins will say about that poll. It may be hard for him to blame activist atheists like Richard Dawkins, because people are less likely to be creationists in RD's homeland.
Posted by: Loren Petrich | August 11, 2006 11:07 AM
Posted by: pough | August 11, 2006 11:07 AM
Why are we attracting the bargain-basement creationists on this one?
Posted by: rrt | August 11, 2006 11:08 AM
Actually, yes. Deism being a good example.
Posted by: Joshua | August 11, 2006 11:09 AM
Hey, at least we beat a country that stone's its citizens for having unmarried sex.
http://www.bianet.org/2003/09/22_eng/news21434.htm
Posted by: James Allen | August 11, 2006 11:10 AM
> The American people have been asked to accept something that can't be repeated, has tremedous gaps in its theory, and still, to this day, cannot answer the most basic fundamental questions: How did life begin and why am I here.
What, you mean Civil War history? Maybe we should ban that from being taught, until people can repeat the Civil War in a lab, and demonstrate how it answers the question "why am I here?"...
Posted by: wintermute | August 11, 2006 11:10 AM
crap, I meant stones, not stone's.
Posted by: James Allen | August 11, 2006 11:12 AM
It is not a failing of evolution that it cannot answer basic, fundamental questions about other things. We do not expect the theory of gravity to explain what makes a good story, for example, although that is also a pretty fundamental question. Likewise, germ theory has nothing pertinant to say about what would be good for lunch, another fundamental question. Nor is game theory to be relied on in choosing a life partner, yet another fundamental question.
As for evolution being repeatable, what do you mean? As an ongoing process it is as demonstrable as plate tectonics. Are you insisting that it's invalid because the Americas aren't splitting off from Africa on some regularly scheduled basis?
Posted by: Kaethe | August 11, 2006 11:15 AM
P.Z. said "Americans are being rolled in large numbers by an ideological 'elite' nested in our churches and in the Republican party..."
This dovetails nicely with Mrs. Robinson's post this morning over at David Neiwert's place. She is writing a series on authoritarianism in the U.S. and the mechanisms authoritarians use to realize their goals. A quote:
She goes on to explain why many people willingly submit to these authoritarian figures, citing John Dean's Conservatives Without a Concience and Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment. This goes a long way in explaining the current political and social climate we have here in the U.S., particularly in the south and the mid-west.
Posted by: BruceH | August 11, 2006 11:18 AM
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 11:18 AM
"none" wrote the usual canards.
A sure sign of the apocolypse would be one of these wankers actually posting an original thought on this subject.
Gaps you say? How do you explain the fact that your "gap god" has been steadily shrinking for nearly 150 years? By now he's down to the size of Tinker Bell. How does that make you feel?
Posted by: paleotn | August 11, 2006 11:19 AM
I suspect game theory could be relied on to choose a life partner.
Posted by: zwa | August 11, 2006 11:19 AM
I'd like to see the USA data broken down state-by-state. Seems nonsensical to compare Iceland with 300 thousand people to the USA with 300 million. Given a state-by-state list we could also decide which states to kick out or make better choices about where to raise our children.
Posted by: AndyS | August 11, 2006 11:19 AM
I took a quick look at these countries in relationship to the maximum individual income tax rate. (Just as a quick indicator of the money a government has available for education. This is definitely an arguable approach with many potential flaws.) However:
The top ten countries on the list have an average maximum individual income tax rate of 47.3%, with a spread from 37% (Japan) to 59% (Denmark).
The bottom ten countries on the list have an average maximum individual income tax rate of 33.5%, with a spread from 16% (Romania) to 50% (Austria).
For referance, both the U.S. and Turkey have a maximum individual income tax rate of 35%.
I'm not certain what this tells us, but it's an interesting result.
Cheers,
-Flex
Posted by: Flex | August 11, 2006 11:20 AM
"has tremedous gaps in its theory, and still, to this day, cannot answer the most basic fundamental questions: How did life begin and why am I here."
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
If this crappola is indictative of American ideas of evolution, we're doomed.
Posted by: Lya Kahlo | August 11, 2006 11:20 AM
"Likewise, germ theory has nothing pertinant to say about what would be good for lunch"
Well, maybe you haven't looked in the back of my fridge just lately. Pasteur would run screaming into the night.
Posted by: Dale Austin | August 11, 2006 11:20 AM
I have no doubts that it's our country's starving of public education over the past 20-30 years that's largely to blame.
Posted by: Steve_C | August 11, 2006 11:21 AM
Noah, I get it about the Western model (or idustrialized or first world or whatever) so that you get European nations and Japan. But Canada would definitely fit the model. And Australia. Why weren't they included?
Thanks, Joshua, of course, deism.
Posted by: Kaethe | August 11, 2006 11:21 AM
Seeing a hammer fall is evidence of gravity on the small scale, in exactly the same sense that seeing bacteria develop antibiotic resistance is evidence of evolution on the small scale. There are people who say that the sun orbits the earth, because on the large scale, gravity works differently, or doesn't work at all. We can't set up an experiment in a lab to test whether planets orbit stars, so we have to rely on indirect observations of planetary motions to prove that gravity works on the large scale as well. By dropping a hammer, you're doing nothing to prove gravity on the large scale.
Saying that we can't make a repeatable experiment that allows us to observe 'macroevolution', therefore it must be a religious belief, is no different from saying that heliocentrism is a religious belief, because we can't test that either. But using indirect evidence, like the fossil record, genetic evidence, planetary motions, etc. is just as scientific.
Posted by: eohippus | August 11, 2006 11:28 AM
"Perhaps when evolution actually lives up to scientific standards (i.e. being repeatable under controlled conditions), people will be more likely to buy into it.
The American people have been asked to accept something that can't be repeated, has tremedous gaps in its theory, and still, to this day, cannot answer the most basic fundamental questions: How did life begin and why am I here.
In other words, all of you secularists and humanists are asking the American people to have faith in what you can't conclusively prove. Oops, sounds an awful lot like RELIGION to me. At least religionists are honest about it..."
If you insufferably arrogant religious fundamentalist morons didn't have your pretentious noses so deeply lodged within your Bibles so that your nostrils are coming out of your thighs, you'd notice that people have been performing evolutionary experiments for millenia before the advent of written history.
If evolutionary biology can not be repeated, or even observed, then how come people have been able to do little things like, say, domesticate wild animals, develop new strains of domestic animals, produce new varieties of plants, edible, ornamental or medical, and gain insight through the culturing of invertebrates and examination of genomes?
The reason why the US is in this educational craphole with Turkey is because religious zealots are so smug and arrogant in mistaking their own ignorance for wisdom, that they lack the mental skills to distinguish a lump of pumice from a decorator crab.
Just sickening.
Posted by: Stanton | August 11, 2006 11:30 AM
Second, the evolution issue has been politicized and incorporated into the current partisan division in the United States in a manner never seen in Europe or Japan.
So we have the Repubs, like the Taliban, rejecting science and modernity--with which they have no hope of competing in the developed world. The States will become poorer for having these nitwits making policy decisions, but the red states will be particularly hard-hit.
Guess who they'll blame for their poverty.
And guess who they'll expect to support them economically, in every way: Schools (in which curriculum we will have no say), infrastructure, enormous welfare rolls, both corporate and personal.
In fact, we do so now, as blue state taxes go to support those who have impoverished themselves through willful ignorance in the red states.
It will be--and is currently-- one more rather staggering subsidy for other people's religions.
(Does the First Amendment really guarantee a right to ignorance?)
Posted by: Molly, NYC | August 11, 2006 11:31 AM
"Perhaps when evolution actually lives up to scientific standards (i.e. being repeatable under controlled conditions).."
Like hurricanes? Have you ever tried to repeat one of those under controlled conditions? What about sun spots? Or plate tectonics? Or ... well, the list is endless. You are an excellent example of why we need better science education.
Posted by: Russell | August 11, 2006 11:32 AM
I've always wondered what religious nuts would have to say in response to fossils of other hominds..like neanderthal man. Are those things made up? Was Neanderthal man in the garden of eden? Since most intelligent design people love to concede that evolution happens for other species just not humans, will they concede that Neanderthalis was placed here, immuatable, by the hand of God. Its funny that they never talk about that.
Posted by: Caith McDermitt | August 11, 2006 11:32 AM
OK, I just have to ask:
Here goes for None:
What "tremendous gaps" do you speak of? Back it up or shut it up. It's the same old childish argumentation. There's actually quite a body of testable, repeatable, ACTUAL evidence that clearly and absolutly supports evolutionary theory - if you even know what that means. As far as references and specific information go, I will agree that most are conspicuously concealed in things called BOOKS! I would start by studying some geology, astronomy, biology, and chemistry and anthropology.
Posted by: Alex | August 11, 2006 11:40 AM
Don't bother feeding the 3rd-rate creationist trolls. Only encourages them.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | August 11, 2006 11:41 AM
Ahhh, the typical knee-jerk humanist/secularist responses. Not surprising. When confronted, resort to name-calling. You're following the "playbook" beautifully.
Science needs to be held to high standards. We have lowered them when it comes to evolution. Personally, I believe in evolution, because I think the evidence overwhelmingly points there. I also believe in God, because I think the evidence overwhelmingly points there. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. However, calling evolution "fact" is a disservice to science in general, as it hasn't met scientific criterion for moving from "theory" to "fact." It always amazes me how challenging this theory causes so many to get all atwitter and get their panties twisted in knots.
And to the person who compared evolution to the Civil War. Are you serious?!?!?! How in the world is an historical war anything remotely close to evolution theory? You want a repeat of the Civil War, go to Iraq.
Posted by: None | August 11, 2006 11:42 AM
"Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals."
Bulgaria appears to have the highest percentage of correct answers.
I noticed the "don't know" feature as well in the bar chart. This makes the result doubly depressing: Not only does the U.S. have the second lowest percentage of people who accept evolution, we have the second highest percentage of people who reject evolution. Reversing the left-right orientation of the chart, to give an estimate of, say, what's needed to improve education about evolution, the ordering isn't much different.
Posted by: RSA | August 11, 2006 11:42 AM