Lucija Tomljenovic https://www.scienceblogs.com/ en Another antivaccine paper bites the dust https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/10/10/another-antivaccine-paper-bites-the-dust <span>Another antivaccine paper bites the dust</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've written on quite a few occasions about a pair of scientists beloved by the antivaccine movement. I'm referring, of course, to <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/?s=Shaw+Tomljenovic">Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic</a>. Whether it is their publishing dubious "evidence" that HPV vaccines cause <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/03/01/one-more-time-theres-no-evidence-gardasil-causes-premature-ovarian-failure/">premature ovarian failure</a> or even <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2012/10/31/and-now-death-by-gardasil-again-not-so-fast/">death</a> or <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/12/08/and-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-decr/">demonizing aluminum as a vaccine adjuvant</a>, Shaw and Tomljenovic publish nothing but antivaccine pseudoscience that antivaxers love to cite whenever they dump some turd of a study on the medical literature.</p> <!--more--><p>Just last month, they dumped their <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417#">latest turd of a study</a>, in which they basically tortured mice in the name of pseudoscience. Later, after I wrote my first analysis of the study in which I described how <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/21/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-2017-aluminum-edition/">poorly designed and executed the experiments were</a>, I discovered that there's more than just bad science there. There's possible fraud, as circulating on PubPeer are reports of <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence/">image manipulation that are quite convincing</a>. At the time this rather obvious image manipulation was being discussed, so, too, was the possibility of retraction. After all, if there's one thing that merits pretty much an automatic retraction in science, it's manipulation of images presented as data in a scientific paper.</p> <p>Not surprisingly, then, yesterday I learned from Retraction Watch that Shaw and Tomljenovic's latest paper will be retracted as well. The editor of the <em>Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry</em> announced that the journal will be retracted:</p> <blockquote><p> The journal’s editor, John Dawson of the University of South Carolina, told Retraction Watch:</p> <blockquote><p> The paper by Shaw and co-workers is being retracted jointly by the authors and the editor. </p></blockquote> <p>He noted there will be a “statement accompanying the retraction of the paper.”</p> <p>Shaw told us that his lab began investigating the issues raised on PubPeer “within a day” and reported its findings to both UBC and the journal soon after. He said:</p> <blockquote><p> Our own analysis showed some figures had been altered. We requested a retraction because we could not understand how that had happened. We felt the data had been compromised. </p></blockquote> <p>Shaw said that the problems mostly lie with data showing no change in gene or protein expression levels after aluminum injections — but also with some data showing changes in expression, which the paper attributed to the injections. </p></blockquote> <p>Next up, Shaw tries to pass the buck:</p> <blockquote><p> Shaw said that first author Dan Li, a former postdoc who performed the molecular biology and gene expression analysis for the study, has agreed to the retraction but not yet offered an official explanation about the data. Shaw told us:</p> <blockquote><p> She denied that anything had been manipulated, or that anything was amiss. </p></blockquote> <p>He added that when Li left the lab in 2015, she took the original data with her:</p> <blockquote><p> UBC policy is that original data never leave the lab. We’ve asked for them to be returned to us. </p></blockquote> <p>Shaw said he thinks the core data are “probably correct,” but said he plans to have the experiments re-done:</p> <blockquote><p> It is what it is. We’ve done everything we can on our end. We’re still having conversations with Li on where the data are and how we get them back. That’s as much as we can do at this point. </p></blockquote> </blockquote> <p>I suppose that it's possible that Shaw was duped by a postdoctoral fellow in his laboratory. When you're the head of a lab and the principal investigator of a study, you tend to come to trust those working for you. You don't want to think that one of them might be committing scientific fraud by manipulating images. On the other hand, as PI, one has to be on guard for this very thing. The PI is basically the captain of the ship, and the buck stops at his desk, and whatever other cliche you want to invoke to say that he is in charge and responsible for the integrity of the data produced by his lab.</p> <p>The kindest possible interpretation is that Christopher Shaw runs a loose ship, so loose that he didn't notice that many of the bands on the images of his DNA gels and the autoradiographs of his Western blots were duplicated, flipped, and otherwise manipulated. Certainly, letting the raw data and raw images out of the lab is not good lab practice, particularly in this day and age, when pretty much all images of gels and Western blots are recorded digitally. In my lab, for instance, there is a lab shared drive, and every single image generated is stored there, so that original images used to make figures can always be recovered. PRanoid PI that I am, I even periodically copy the whole shared drive to my own computer, which in turn is regularly backed up. Key figures are preserved on cloud drives.</p> <p>The worst possible interpretation is that Shaw either knew about the image manipulation (or even ordered it) or that he put so much pressure on his postdoc to produce results that she felt that she had to falsify figures to produce what he wanted. Of course, I wonder about Shaw's practices. For instance, in my <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence/">discussion of the image manipulation</a>, I noted that Shaw and Tomljenovic have at minimum engaged in self-plagiarism, recycling figures from a 2014 review article into which they dumped a little original data in their soon-to-be retracted paper. So, in terms of commonly accepted practices, we already know Shaw's rather...unconcerned. </p> <p>Then, of course, there's Shaw and Tomljenovic's history. Back in 2015, they published a <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X16000165">paper purporting to show</a> that aluminum adjuvants in Gardasil caused behavioral abnormalities in young female mice that was <a href="https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/retracted-hpv-vaccine-article-shaw-tomljenovic/">retracted</a> for this reason:</p> <blockquote><p> This article has been withdrawn at the request of the Editor-in-Chief due to serious concerns regarding the scientific soundness of the article. Review by the Editor-in-Chief and evaluation by outside experts, confirmed that the methodology is seriously flawed, and the claims that the article makes are unjustified. As an international peer-reviewed journal we believe it is our duty to withdraw the article from further circulation, and to notify the community of this issue. </p></blockquote> <p>Why is it that the University of British Columbia and its Department of Ophthalmology (which is the department where Shaw and Tomljenovic are based) put up with crap like this? Shaw must have tenure or pictures of the Dean having an affair. I can't think of any other reasons why he isn't long gone.</p> <p>Ultimately the article was republished in a form that was nearly word-for-word identical version in an inferior journal. Such is the fate of antivaccine pseudoscience. It always comes back. That's why I liken it to zombies, Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Chucky, or any other monsters that "die" at the end of one movie, only to inevitably reappear in a new sequel over and over and over again.</p> <p>I have little doubt that Shaw and Tomljenovic's soon-to-be retracted paper will reappear somewhere else within a few months. It's what antivaccine scientists publishing dubious or even fraudulent research to promote the long discredited idea that vaccines cause autism do. Their pseudoscience never dies. It just keeps being recycled like the sequel to a 1980s slasher flick.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Mon, 10/09/2017 - 21:15</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism" hreflang="en">autism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/bioethics" hreflang="en">Bioethics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/aluminum" hreflang="en">aluminum</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/christopher-shaw" hreflang="en">Christopher Shaw</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/lucija-tomljenovic" hreflang="en">Lucija Tomljenovic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mice" hreflang="en">mice</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery" hreflang="en">quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/bioethics" hreflang="en">Bioethics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366953" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507602414"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>He added that when Li left the lab in 2015, she took the original data with her:</p></blockquote> <p>How can you publish a paper if you don't have the data?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366953&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JTdlrn0xYb1r6QYeBqD6Eu2imhm0bh39bi8Ktb0pv78"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rebecca Fisher (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366953">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366954" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507603039"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>How can you publish a paper if you don’t have the data?</p></blockquote> <p>Fire up the Recto-Source 2000™.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366954&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tSDfAWVV-NkmimoP9DtR89rJgZ2uHmjVBRIQF8h94Tg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge">The Very Rever… (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366954">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366955" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507605266"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is it with these people who feel the need to pop up one faux antivaccine paper after another? Don't they understand that they're wasting everyone's precious time (including their own) with this stupid antivaccine version of Whack-a-Mole?<br /> I almost envision a sort of "three-strike" system where researchers who want to prove a particular point (e.g. that vaccines are harmful) that is contrary to widely established scientific consensus get three shots at it. After three failures, any further papers by this author on the same subject should be automatically rejected.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366955&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zmjZqH3gv7_nezlTlXXPaH-2IsaE6_Q721wnQ3YD7WU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366955">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366956" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507606273"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Richard--I wish what you say was so. However:</p> <p>1. The faculty that put up these phony papers (Shaw, here) never seem to get sanctioned by their schools. Mawson with his phony internet survey paper that Orac has covered never was sanctioned. Brian Martin, the phd advisor for the laughable anti-vaccine defecation--er, I mean dissertation--of Judith Wilyman never was disciplined either. Orac has covered the Mawson paper and Wilyman dissertation. Heck, Wakefield's retracted Lancet paper was never truly retracted in the eyes of anti-vaxxers as clearly Wakefield was the victim of a vast conspiracy. </p> <p>2. Once the article is published (even if just for a day before being retracted), it will forever exist as a published article in the eyes of anti-vaxxers. They will add it to their list of "papers" showing the ebil of vaccines and that list will forever circulate on social media where a direct refutation of each bogus citation takes longer than a lot of people who have been scared into not vaccinating are willing to read (sadly). </p> <p>So even though this may seem a waste, it serves their purposes well enough.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366956&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HDV7GWRBM0gUv4-oSk8zUw9TxIaUVWQGSgA0e6C2Imo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366956">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366957" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507608468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>How can you publish a paper if you don’t have the data?</i></p> <p>Back in 2015, Li, Y. Li and Shaw presented "Gene-toxin synergy in the brain of autistic mouse model" to the 11th Keele Meeting on Aluminium. From the Abstract, the presentation sounds like the PPT version of this paper. That, of course, was before Li went off the reservation.<br /><a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/aluminium/keelemeetings/2015/scientificprogramme/">https://www.keele.ac.uk/aluminium/keelemeetings/2015/scientificprogramm…</a></p> <p>Perhaps Shaw can be persuaded to make the PPT of the 2015 presentation available. Then we could help him determine whether the Figures were shonky at that stage, or whether the shonkyness crept in at a later stage of preparation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366957&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vZCClVpmS-aFGUTnp_KwyWjcRScRUjXAO4BR9RGslM4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366957">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366958" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507610056"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Chris Hickie<br /> Yeah, I know, rejection by the scientific community never stopped any one of these antivaccine clowns, quite the contrary. If anything, they almost seem to consider it a badge of honor of a kind, a sort of painful-but-ultimately-rewarding acceptance ritual into the whackjob crowd -- after which they merrily keep on excreting their oddly distorted type of 'science', proudly showing off their potty's paper's contents after every single one of those efforts...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366958&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LTN1rnG-WHGosq7QISjIaT210tuhpDz-JOZnFc-gNEs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366958">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366959" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507614119"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@The Rev #2:</p> <blockquote><p>Fire up the Recto-Source 2000™.</p></blockquote> <p>That statement can be read several ways, none of them good!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366959&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KvrY7X2XTvDV6f0mT0iRfqSnGCUiIgkkCdx0x4maFJw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366959">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366960" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507614505"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What I also don't understand is why anyone wants to work for these clowns when you know in advance that their studies are fundamentally flawed (garbage) and your reputation is going to be tarnished by association. No matter how desperate you are to earn your doctorate, or land that first post-doc position you have to think about for whom you are working.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366960&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-xNF3NHPgrvNYcGYmlPprzQOTnZBwmMDWjNIk8OcTQ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dagian (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366960">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366961" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507614714"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A. I wonder if they'll fix the images in the new version. And if he says the data is missing, how they'll fix any of the issues, if at all. </p> <p>B. Shaw is in the department of ophthalmology. Does he have any recent publications in that area, I wonder?</p> <p>C. It was already mentioned here that this is not the first paper off that set of experiments. Is this grounds to reexamine those?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366961&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y74e_ElLofhTTnRLvR1FtOt6TAPEwvziSGwLMtadQY8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366961">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366962" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507615362"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>He added that when Li left the lab in 2015, she took the original data with her</p></blockquote> <p>The cynic in me is wondering whether the "original data" include e-mails between Shaw and Li about how to prepare the data. Of course Li is going to deny that the images were manipulated--to admit this would be a career-ending move. But if she was ordered to prepare the figures a certain way, she may have thought that keeping proof of those orders was a good thing.</p> <p>In general, the postdoc-mentor relationship is one that has a serious power imbalance, and far too often it becomes an abusive relationship. For several years now, NSF has required proposals that request funding for post-docs to include a mentoring plan, and one of the reasons for this requirement is to reduce the likelihood that the relationship will become abusive. I do not know what requirements (if any) NIH or the counterpart Canadian funding agencies have.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366962&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZihbirGGrODfR4xeKAD6CBUd-iGTaCjnVZOnOEVT_do"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366962">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366963" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507615975"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Daglan@7: I can see at least a couple of possibilities. One is that Dr. Li (who is presumably a Chinese national, or at least born in China) wanted to remain in Canada and therefore needed a Canadian job. She may also have had a two-body problem which constrained her to the Vancouver metro area--it is quite common for women with Ph.D.s to be married to men with Ph.D.s (especially in physics, whence the term "two-body problem").</p> <p>That's another reason postdoc-mentor relationships can become abusive: often it's difficult for the postdoc to leave on good terms with her advisor, because there may not be that many other options out there.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366963&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-saezBBwHUztFl1AKTUITXxZa4SPXydHDrZYxaM5Q58"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366963">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507616879"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Eric<br /> "In general, the postdoc-mentor relationship is one that has a serious power imbalance, and far too often it becomes an abusive relationship."<br /> Some years ago, i was in a lab where the mentor put pressure on the post-doc when the results were not those that were expected: "You need to have your paper published, don't you?" The mentor was not antivaccine, on the contrary.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SCThAvPqQJdwyhmbKhRHQz28LXCaMpZVQLbevT-Wx-s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366965" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507617610"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe if he runs a loose ship it'll sink and never come back.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366965&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TXhwojprfxr9J5-MXzr8lR3VU1seMqxdMb53AQPs6Ao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366965">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366966" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507617764"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's not a good day for antivaxers.</p> <p>They were crowing recently over a dubious decision by the Yemen government to suspend a cholera vaccine campaign (among other things, the government claimed that administering the vaccine might distract health care workers from treating patients).</p> <p>Now a massive cholera vaccination program has been launched by the U.N. in Bangladesh:</p> <p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/starts-cholera-vaccinations-bangladesh-rohingya-50385787">http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/starts-cholera-vaccinations-bang…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366966&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-txBaCyMmu2w0WL6Lf1-XxVGralEEOnnWDlQLySAF-s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366966">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366967" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507618897"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Based on when he received his first degree, I estimate that Shaw is between 65 and 70, likely closer to the latter. While some academics are still going strong at that age, others are beginning to weary of the whole endeavor. I can't say that I'm surprised at the notion he is running a loose ship. I am a bit surprised that his operation seems to have some sort of an automaton that generates papers, under the names of humans, and that apparently the humans don't bother to look at the papers before they go out the door.</p> <p>Again, given his interests, I'm suspicious he is in the ophthalmology department as a result of lateral transfer from a department that no longer wanted him. It is an established way of "disposing" of a tenured faculty member.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366967&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FGAdWuCrK0cNvrX-XfcdrjpirDnDRs1gU-QkIyfNRVI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366967">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366968" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507620224"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac writes,</p> <p>The kindest possible interpretation is that Christopher Shaw runs a loose ship...</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>After being poked to evaluate the significance of this work, Orac provides a left-handed compliment.</p> <p>Let's get serious, running a "loose ship" is exactly what pharmaceuticals maintained over the last century with respect to vaccine packaging.</p> <p>If an industry continues to use warnings labels, directed at packaging hazards, the ship is in dire need of repair.</p> <p>@Orac,</p> <p>In retrospect, it's past due for ScienceBlogs and/or Orac to retract the following RI posts:</p> <p>1) <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-they-never-end/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-t…</a> ; and</p> <p>2) <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-prometheus/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-p…</a></p> <p>One of Orac's minion's named Prometheus admitted altering comments in his blog and, thereafter, Orac continues an association with the posts described above.</p> <p>Indeed, it can be said that Orac also runs a "loose ship".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366968&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JnfzguavIFeXfkCPDd9W5_noZFEfWzGyUVX82fzOpWM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366968">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366969" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507620702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does RetractionWatch keep track of which disciplines are most susceptible to papers being retracted?</p> <p>Based on what I've seen, antivax articles are running neck and neck with anti-GMO publications.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366969&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="40BcnbUmM8K4l4OpMqE0EKAAV5TvBzi-W50zQaTNcrM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366969">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366970" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507621074"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Why is it that the University of British Columbia and its Department of Ophthalmology (which is the department where Shaw and Tomljenovic are based) put up with crap like this? Shaw must have tenure or pictures of the Dean having an affair. I can’t think of any other reasons why he isn’t long gone.</p></blockquote> <p>$</p> <p>Shaw is bringing in a reliable revenue stream from Dwoskin and her anti-vaxx pals. It's going to go to another uni so why not keep it there? I don't foresee them sacking Shaw unless his activities interfere with other funding.</p> <blockquote><p>Of course, I wonder about Shaw’s practices.</p></blockquote> <p>One only needs to look at his seminal paper on the subject: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826</a> to see where his practices were going. The methodology of that study was so obviously manipulated as to render it useless. All his subsequent papers follow the same cast.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366970&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9KddEtWxMAZENdmtkj2WF1x1Wu-Yf0G5Hx6W8HHe5Lo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366970">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366971" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507621094"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I worked in a lab where the PI was known to treat his post-docs HORRIBLY the second he was aware they were looking for a new position (which they needed to do anyway) and once they had secured one - he was intolerable. Nice guy in some ways, absolute nightmare to work for in others. I had dreams of throwing him off of the building to the wild applause of other PI's. I found a new job soon after before I made my dreams come true.</p> <p>Oh yes, of course - the two-person conundrum. Well, I hope she found a better boss the next time around.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366971&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="H0hd8MUMelDP8V5kliYSWlImtH8U2sWsm598DKRQvws"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dagian (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366971">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366972" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507624220"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD, you seem to be butthurt that the complete crap you push gets called out for the baseless stuff that it is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366972&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z0Z-0zFbI0tS5bk1wGbHCAhY_cnkgCZzFiLoq654c54"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366972">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366973" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507624720"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MJD</p> <p>Jesus man is that all you know how to do? I've seen toddlers that connect the dots better than you. </p> <p>Forget ad blockers, Orac needs ad hominem blockers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366973&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UA96hYSH_tf6ginEfhasJuNWnZkMdtOFNt4P2u9lGho"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366973">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366974" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507627224"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When this study first surfaced not too long ago, there were a flurry of angry anti-vaxxers touting this as the "final" proof they were right about, well, everything. They are wrong as usual but it leaves a bad taste not to be able to go back and say. "see, I told you so". And this was retracted rather quickly.</p> <p>So glad Orac has an archive.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366974&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yc9PwH2IzyzJrbO0I8CVk-XZMyGFs__xGwWtL5NkwgY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MikeMa (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366974">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366975" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507632092"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Epsilon (#21) writes,</p> <p>Jesus man is that all you know how to do? I’ve seen toddlers that connect the dots better than you.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Good heavens no, I've written extensively about aluminum-based adjuvants binding to contaminants from vaccine packaging.</p> <p>I'm in favor of keeping aluminum-based adjuvants on the vaccine playground but medical science better make sure that said adjuvant maintains the right partner before injection.</p> <p>On second thought, how about improving vaccine packaging?</p> <p>Google the words "Dochniak" and "vaccine" for the specifics.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366975&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NHhYcZgxGo6b8SL34JUqhigWWFPjJ9goWQDDrtLPSnI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366975">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366976" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507633565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Again, given his interests, I’m suspicious he is in the ophthalmology department as a result of lateral transfer from a department that no longer wanted him. It is an established way of “disposing” of a tenured faculty member.</p></blockquote> <p>I suppose that's possible, but it is at least as likely [he says without looking at a publication list] that Shaw was at one time a respectable ophthalmologist, and became a vaccine crank later in life. It does happen: Linus Pauling and vitamin C, and Brian Josephson on race, are two examples I can name offhand. Even Stanislaw Burzynski, one of Orac's favorite target, was once a mainstream medical researcher before he realized he could make more money selling his particular brand of snake oil, though he was relatively young when he became a full-time Mammon worshipper.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366976&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VGEViSVU434fRKCvXfwc0GI_KfyM15tVA7qUVPD-qhM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366976">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366977" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507636294"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I note that the paper's web page gives no indication that the paper is, or will be, retracted. How long does it take to add a big red 'RETRACTED' to the top of the page, with the additional text 'This paper is bad, and the authors should feel bad'? It seems like a bit of foot dragging to me.</p> <p>On another topic -</p> <p>As I previously noted, I found MJD's book in the used book store. It's a quick read if you can stomach it (less than 100 pages, and plenty of white space). But it will probably take more than one sitting. It's that bad.</p> <p>I've sucked all the entertainment value I can out of it. I've compared the book, Prometheus review, and other web sources and have determined that Prometheus was a mighty fair fellow. I've savored the poetry, both sober and drunk, and can tell you it hurts to read it, no matter the state if inebriation.</p> <p>So I'm ready to pass it on. Our host has the right of first refusal. Orac - if you want the book, I'll ZAG it up to you. You have my e-mail, just let me know. Otherwise, in a day or so, I'll come up with a way that some other minion can communicate with me and claim the book.</p> <p>Just so there's no doubt, no charge for the shipping. I paid 50 cents to get it, and I'd pay a coupla bucks to get rid of it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366977&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mnox3wf7p5tYol91pfM4aIimQIO_0VOc9OcZb8yjREw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366977">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366978" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507638860"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While I appreciate your concern that I have not been adequately exposed to your unique blend of antivaxx involving the horrors of latex and the minuscule amounts of a non-heavy metal in a small amount of liquid, I would rather keep my brain cells as they are. They're already strained enough with my health issues and I'd like to live to a ripe old age. </p> <p>And besides, you get what you give, right?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366978&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zvHIdWtc9a6V665QvKWgmUogZE45IhtaLtIwBa85muo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366978">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366979" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507639018"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I paid 50 cents to get [MJD's book], and I’d pay a coupla bucks to get rid of it.</p></blockquote> <p>You're a better man than I am, Johnny--I'd send it straight to the recycling bin. From your description, it sounds like I would be overpaying if I got it for free.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366979&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R-hnv9bEAuru1risVDAQnZTILusLp2yFn43mL69ileI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366979">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366980" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507639768"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Johnny:</p> <p>I'll decline the book offer in advance -<br /> I doubt Orac will accept unless if he wants to pad his woo shelf -<br /> although I listen to and read loads of nonsense every day courtesy of prn.fm, natural news, AoA, mercola.com, green med info, TMR, Jake and various twits in twitter-</p> <p>I have to draw a line somewhere and MJD is it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366980&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="S63D2rg2D6nPhQRx3kl6v35Bp3fFElIZGGYv3mmWO4c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366980">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366981" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507642754"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Good heavens no, I’ve written extensively about aluminum-based adjuvants binding to contaminants from vaccine packaging.</i></p> <p>Copious amounts of bullsh*t are still bullsh*t.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366981&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zl01BlFtwzaJghc8ae7Xquf3h3ExHtoVg5XL4N9PckQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366981">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366982" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507644035"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I suppose that’s possible, but it is at least as likely [he says without looking at a publication list] that Shaw was at one time a respectable ophthalmologist</i></p> <p>Shaw is a neuroscientist by training; his doctorate thesis was about invertebrate photoreceptors. Shouldn't misrepresent him as a "mere eye-doctor with ideas above his station".</p> <p>He became interested in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and got headlines in 2000 with a theory that the main cause of ALS was a particular neurotoxin (methionine sulfoximine). That work went nowhere but I guess he got a taste for headlines. His work morphed into Gulf War Syndrome, and aluminium, and that lured him into Exley's circle of Aluminati. Now he has a Theory of Everything that is falsification-proof -- there is <b>no experimental result</b> that it cannot accommodate as further evidence -- and it is not easy to see what will shift him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366982&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e55MpJCA-peubQGBkIJijxjJJTC3YEJIJV60z6I4-Bo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366982">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366983" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507646419"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@shay</p> <p>Yeah, if something is wrong, just because you write about it a lot doesn't make it right. </p> <p>I could write as much as I want about how the world is flat, but that wouldn't make it true.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366983&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="exh68VxnRJlu8MUJj8-sAdq7bI3fTDC3IgRkqu3NW3A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366983">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366984" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507646903"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One issue is the acceptance of log-rolling and mutual-reviewing within Aluminati circles. And the mutual-citation backscratching.<br /> For instance -- "<a href="https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99/open-peer-review">Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain</a>", from Gherardi's group (with Exley as a middle co-author): peer-reviewed by Shaw and Perricone.*</p> <p>"<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2015.00004/full">Biopersistence and brain translocation of aluminum adjuvants of vaccines</a>", from Gherardi and Cadusseau -- edited <b>and</b> peer-reviewed by Tomljenovic.</p> <p>"<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2014.00212/full">Why industry propaganda and political interference cannot disguise the inevitable role played by human exposure to aluminum in neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer’s disease</a>", by Exley -- edited by Shaw, peer-reviewed by Tomljenovic.</p> <p>"<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2014.00230/full">Clinical features in patients with long-lasting macrophagic myofasciitis</a>", Gherardi's group again -- edited by Shaw, peer-reviewed by Tomljenovic.</p> <p>"<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2014.00262/full">The mobilization of aluminum into the biosphere"</a>, Pgue &amp; Lukiw -- edited by Shaw, peer-reviewed by Tomljenovic.</p> <p>For a while Frontiers had a Research Topic on "Aluminum Toxicity and Human Disease" --<br /><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20161002055704/http://journal.frontiersin.org:80/researchtopic/2270/aluminum-toxicity-and-human-disease">https://web.archive.org/web/20161002055704/http://journal.frontiersin.o…</a><br /> -- allowing Shaw and Tomljenovic to invite papers from their colleagues and send them out to complaisant reviewers, or wield the rubber-stamp themselves. At some point this year the separate papers bcame independent because Frontiers scrubbed all record of the Research Topic.</p> <p>* An associate of Shoenfeld and <a href="http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2324709614527812">regular co-author with Tomljenovic</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366984&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DJjZotioCL4b_O30RG6hdO6VFMqLW_Q3Z_HDOB7biRQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366984">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366985" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507647325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Johnny,</p> <p>I'm half tempted if only to run it through a plagiarism checker.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366985&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mlcEEeN_ikezVcCpq4CKHPBPLp5TRzOo1nkToZUw6bk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366985">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366986" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507648988"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"<a>Elevated brain aluminium and early onset Alzheimer’s disease in an individual occupationally exposed to aluminium: a case report</a>", by Exley &amp; Vickers -- peer-reviewed by Shaw and Gherardi.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366986&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cUH3NGB_xWfK7aMaDr7zE91GmAWz6Qjg5MwwJCu4HVM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366986">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366987" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507649504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dear MJD,</p> <p>Usually, I never notice any sign of illness on myself unless I'm at the brinks of death door. Let me explain, in simple terms what exactly that entail:</p> <p>Back 4 years ago (and ~2 months maybe), my appendix started to go south...at some random date of the month of august 2013. </p> <p>Time passes on and somewhere around 8 days later, it happen to rupture (well, explode would be the proper word at that point). I was in my brother's car at that point and coming back from a visit to my mother. Brother asks if I want to go to the hospital, I said no....no patience to wait.</p> <p>24 hours later, paramedics bring me to the hospital and still, I end up waiting 3 hours in a wheelchair in the waiting area, relatively asymptomatic (pain...).</p> <p>Around noon, doc examine me. Test with some kind of hand + digit move, I feel a serious jolt of pain and then, the medical machine get in 6th gear with surgery 12 hours later which they would have done sooner if they could.</p> <p>Now, if, by some random circumstance I halucinate about these posts:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-they-never-end/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-t…</a></p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-prometheus/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-p…</a></p> <p>Then, I will steal a race car if needed to get checked out at the nearest ER because something a metric ton more dangerous than a ruptured appendix is happening to me.</p> <p>That said, good luck :)</p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366987&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="alffY-AymvL4pkeU9rlImzqNRQj0u9erysHQDdbsgbA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366987">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366988" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507649550"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>halucinate about these post being retracted...that is :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366988&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3dJ7N6ZIezI3JI1uVy0bZ3cPV9phIojKo4th_YOaPH4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366988">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366989" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507650185"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hmm. Sounds like rebound tenderness at McBurney's Point. </p> <p>Yeah, that's the scary thing about appendicitis. Once it ruptures, a lot of times, the patient feels better. For awhile.</p> <p>Wow. You had a close shave. I'm glad you're OK. :o</p> <p>And it really says something about MJD's "work" that you'd consider a hallucination involving it a sign of a major medical emergency worse than what happened to you with appendicitis.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366989&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4h5HOVhfeI_noQX82jdiegWHRJRvUJ1M7DdclKdIk5c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366989">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366990" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507651679"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alain (#34) writes,</p> <p>halucinate about these post being retracted…that is.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Dearest Orac,</p> <p>Through the years, I've come to appreciate the respectful insolence reserved for others but continue to languish in the realization that I've somehow stumbled and lost your respect.</p> <p>It is with the deepest humility and sincerity that I ask you to retract the questionable postings reference by our mutual friend Alain (comment #33).</p> <p>In satisfaction, a double retraction is the humane reaction </p> <p>Kindest Regards,</p> <p>Michael J. Dochniak<br /> (7-year blogger @ RI)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366990&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MznUxozx7zI9AcpBRZWc4dOx8JKb_RWzJxV5d9jxVXI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366990">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366991" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507652096"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In retrospect, it’s past due for ScienceBlogs and/or Orac to retract the following RI posts</p></blockquote> <p>Do fuck off, Doucheniak.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366991&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6CoP9RB4nEGaPIKbGulZMhpJhxgK6-AVwjicxGaa7KU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366991">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366992" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507652416"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I refuse to read MJD's "writing" on principle. Judging by his comments on this blog, he might actually be worse than Ayn Rand. And Rand's stuff is worse than used toilet paper.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366992&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_pWIz1AuSj-MpUEqeAURHie6pGJSgpE0vSrQgwu-No8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366992">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366993" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507654554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> From your description, it sounds like I would be overpaying if I got it for free. </p></blockquote> <p>Yeah, I I agree, but between my desire to do a public service (get the silly thing away from the gullible public) and my curiosity to see if it was as bad as I thought it would be, it was well worth the 4 bits.</p> <p>I recommend it be approached like an MST3K episode.</p> <p>MJD - you are <b>not</b> a blogger. You are a commenter.</p> <p>By the way, how's your Go Fund Me?<br /><a href="https://www.gofundme.com/Michael-J-Dochniak">https://www.gofundme.com/Michael-J-Dochniak</a></p> <p>PGP - nothing like that in the book. Just bad science and (believe it or not) even worse poetry.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366993&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dtsBCwq0IWfB6SzOGHU_e7XMzGGWjifGIK4c4pu5IIQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366993">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366994" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507654681"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD - when you admit that latex doesn't cause autism, but that it's painfully, painfully obvious that it's genetic - no, even then it's too late.</p> <p>You lost the right to demand concessions from ORAC years ago -forever.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366994&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="791cq7N-PhqzYsa9ZCCEhEPj6Yz_VisQry2zOR0Bjs8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jane Ostentatious (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366994">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366995" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507659010"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MJD</p> <p>Dear heavens that whole post was so sickeningly, simperingly fake-polite I want to gag myself with a rolled-up paper torn out of your book.</p> <p>Do yourself a favor and just stop pretending you have any standing or dignity here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366995&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vOm9rYHWHOz3ExkIyAF3iNgXZx9_xwRl1n7YgloeJiw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366995">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366996" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507665880"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD, why do you appreciate our host's insolence when directed at others but don't appreciate when your own work comes under fire?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366996&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gMnENfY4GgwkQ00BKlelkMPyckaVpsA2uIu1vr1tVEs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366996">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366997" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507665955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thank you HDB for that interesting list.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366997&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GocZWPCUCCH6YQzmkWoygyjF3TosszfmfRRedxHtnLA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366997">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366998" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507666946"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD,</p> <p>I may address you with respect and you may consider me as a friend but, I never specified that we are or were friends. Please act accordingly.</p> <p>Many thanks,</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366998&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="auyss5nlQ9E7Csppoq8H-DEO2OnluMIVxlDJ2SJwQ7g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366998">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366999" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507668237"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Thank you HDB for that interesting list.</i></p> <p>It is somehow ironic that Frontiers have also published a paper on deteching Citation Cartels, and claim that they will not allow that form of mutual backscratching in their own journals.<br /><a href="https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/01/03/citations-cartels-an-emerging-problem-in-scientific-publishing/">https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/01/03/citations-cartels-an-emerging-p…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366999&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="suDIFmL2iAZAJRBsLxQl1NFU0hy6L1l7QERydgsePDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366999">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367000" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507670767"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Dear heavens that whole post was so.</p></blockquote> <p>emetic?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367000&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_yMTAxeD_3BuYa6yhlZEQUN3udyx3BrZwm7P3z-Kd0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367000">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367001" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507672354"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“Why industry propaganda and political interference cannot disguise the inevitable role played by human exposure to aluminum in neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer’s disease“, by Exley</p></blockquote> <p>Cool title, bro.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367001&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NWyYB6rg0Q350GwkOK9WoXszZ2SiGuAUaSU8HTLPW9k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367001">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367002" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507672565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny: I believe it. Any chance there's a free pdf floating around the net?</p> <p>MJD: Dude, this isn't a scientific conference. No retractions are necessary. Besides, haven't you heard 'the internet is forever'?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367002&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DshtkN8-dC-1zFIdLmyRaDWWN9s6-o5A5AOdtkUl4nI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367002">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367003" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507676329"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Jeezums, that Exley item falls apart by the second sentence:</p> <blockquote><p>In 1979, the so-called allosteric activity of citrate (and other activators) was found to be the consequence of the contamination of laboratory supplies of ATP by aluminum <b>(2)</b>.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC413083/">Allow me</a>.</p> <blockquote><p>Because type I mammalian hexokinase, the predominant form in the brain, has been shown to be stimulated by catecholamines (9) and by citrate (10), it appeared likely that it would share with the yeast hexokinases a sensitivity to Al 3+. In initial experiments with homogenates of mouse brain, 1 μM added Al 3+ caused about 50% inhibition under conditions similar to those in Fig. 2<i>A</i> (Thomas Rand, personal communication). When a partially purified type I rat brain enzyme was used, about 2 μM added Al 3+ caused 50% inhibition (Fig. 6<i>A</i>). As with the yeast enzymes, the Al 3+ must be premixed with the ATP to get the degree of inhibition shown here. The brain enzyme showed the same strong pH dependence as yeast hexokinase for inhibition by Al 3+ (Fig. 6<i>B</i>).</p></blockquote> <p>Cool lever arm, bro.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367003&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zljp0G_ytgl-6Q2qoIZk_RlNy8DMkcICn4hEJMBchDU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367003">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367004" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507679474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Cool title, bro.</i><br /> It did strike me as more appropriate for photocopied pages stapled to power-poles than for a scholarly journal, but hey, this was Frontiers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367004&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KGuR3q8mFVez4chZY6_85vCroWSGwzyaB-XLBb150Ds"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367004">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367005" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507680107"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Keep your eye on Gherardi, by the way, he's going to go far. Word has it that the Italian antivaxxers are building him up to be the new spokesman for the movement -- a Romance-language Wakefield.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367005&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9H_xzSFcxPevQdwJPOxdcRxzTFXhEw8cstTn5kQjdeI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367005">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367006" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507688258"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I vaccinated eight kids for influenza today. They all had anaphylactic reactions to the latex stopper in the syringe. I then dosed each with epi and benadryl, which of course had latex stoppers inducing even more reactions. Ultimately, they all walked out with a new autism diagnoses. and popsicles, cherry flavored.<br /> Tomorrow I will shoot for a even dozen.<br /> Muster the Rohirrim.<br /> Peace out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367006&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cO8lj4PQQFKltgG14lF2upKc4iC_JkbP4Gurt7_Cl8E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 10 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367006">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367007" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507704013"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Science Mom (#44) asks,</p> <p>MJD, why do you appreciate our host’s insolence when directed at others but don’t appreciate when your own work comes under fire?</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Understand that Orac's punishment towards me has been the worst kind of insolence. </p> <p>I've been ceremoniously placed in permanent auto-moderation wherein all comments on a particularly pertinent vaccine-safety issue are stymied.</p> <p>In essence, Orac has subjected me to a public flogging and any attempt to provide a rebuttal is impossible.</p> <p>It often gives me great pain to read some of the insidious comments from some of Orac's minions (e.g., MarkN, #54).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367007&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GFK7bNGitV3D-M4MekiWagg_8NP4sX0CmWD_roPNGJk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367007">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1367008" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507704111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You brought it on yourself over several years. Every time I let you out, you revert to form. So stop whining.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367008&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z7mqO8K7XqwLRkF6ujhJ8Vz8PS6aXQYiEwIC4CwE7Dc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367008">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1367007#comment-1367007" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367011" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507709097"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of course you can provide a rebuttal. You can easily start your own blog, respond to anything said here, and do what you can to alert Orac and minions.</p> <p>Orac doesn't have to allow you to monopolize comments to do that, and not giving you a platform here isn't silencing you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367011&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IDbXQp6ySYhMw19939dI9MpiohpGKpgxjAOVgbMbU6Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367011">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1367007#comment-1367007" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367009" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507705468"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Given the history of newspaper headlines vs. retractions, I suspect it's more than enough of a victory for antivaxxers to get anything published anywhere, no matter what becomes of the article later.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367009&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C3ZkGp46RzS9XqIVNQ_4mPVoSaKAANNKwRE2cvD1RsE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Copyleft (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367009">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367010" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507707505"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD, the last time I checked you weren't forced to read this blog nor comment here. You were given ample opportunity to rebut the critique of your "work", you continued to hijack every post you commented on with it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367010&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XidNFXkMs-GH79vBNlFL84vTUOujWrIBP3RKR7HpkJ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367010">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367012" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507711888"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dorit Reiss (#57) writes,</p> <p>You can easily start your own blog, respond to anything said here, and do what you can to alert Orac and minions.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Well said Dorit with one exception, I can't respond to anything said here. </p> <p>Therein lies the problem...</p> <p>Orac often allows me to answer a direct question (e.g., Science Mom #44) but the minions often present condescending statements (e.g., MarkN #54) that, in combination with Orac's auto-moderation, silence my response.</p> <p>Q. What is the offspring of respectful insolence.</p> <p>A. Irreconcilable difference</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367012&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j0cjvpHq89g4P6OOMKARSAHp62HR0QduLIqwSuvYd68"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367012">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367013" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507715216"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD sort of semi has a point in one limited respect.</p> <p>It's probably not fair to have commenters mock his latex obsession when he is not permitted to respond on the subject.</p> <p>There is so much more in his comments deserving of mockery, for instance his habit of referring to himself in the third person.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367013&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yA7OkQRkc3zYh-vzEbUjrnFKjivK2SGvofWEby5WsQ8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367013">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367014" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507715724"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> ... I can’t respond to anything said here. </p></blockquote> <p>No, you could respond to everything said here if you had your own blog. You are only restricted from responding on <b>this blog. </b></p> <p>Just because our host limits you on <b>his</b> forum does not mean you are limited across the entire internet.</p> <p>In fact, I think your comments would be quite welcome at AoA, AI, the Drinking Moms, and a handful of others, as well as Twitter, and you could have complete control over your own content and all comments at <i>your own freakin’ blog.</i></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367014&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Bt9Skpmi-GaWMeSTclsy9L5Ayk_vgc52lSwkNCtTerY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367014">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367015" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507716135"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’ve been <b>un</b>ceremoniously placed in permanent auto-moderation</p></blockquote> <p>FTFY.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367015&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WLyxcnXzBf5lUvPd3ZiC0_gw9EtELVMK3El5-onw3iI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367015">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367016" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507725183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>In essence, Orac has subjected me to a public flogging and any attempt to provide a rebuttal is impossible.</i></p> <p>S. I. W.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367016&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1DWKxpaRJAXe4ny9tZJ-Ig_UY6nuNak81F6btM0RUoU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367016">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367017" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507726457"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Self inflicted wedgie?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367017&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="o-GUzbx7wxmHG3FYeASmmebdF6f5qhHyu7TR8ApF0Ak"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367017">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367018" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507727575"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Meanwhile, back on topic, Sylvie Coyaud has <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/10/10/another-antivaccine-paper-bites-the-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-472837">linked to this post</a>, so I feel I should do the citation-cartel thing and link back to her own discussion of <a href="http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2017/10/11/il-cartello-della-pal-review/">Gherardi's Aluminati contributions</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367018&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JT4HLzpUBJi7v2-IX9cymwo2gymDvt_XPtaklOVY4aQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367018">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367019" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507728723"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gherardi (you will recall) first came to fame by describing MMF, a rare aftermath of vaccination... so rare, in fact, that no-one else has ever oberved it, outside of Gherardi's group. There is a friendly internecine between Gherardi and Shoenfeld, inventor of the ASIA syndrome, with the former claiming that ASIA comes under the rubric of MMF, and the latter making the opposite claim.</p> <p>Anyway, Gherardi's more recent publications have all been about studying AlOH persistence and brainward migration in animals, <b>not</b> by injecting them with AlOH adjuvants, but by injecting them with hybrid particles, AlOH-marked <b>nanodiamonds</b>, which have the advantages of (1) being <b>completely</b> biopersistant (because the body can't dispose of them in any way), and (2) sufficiently expensive to minimise the danger of anyone else replicating his work.</p> <p>Anyway, it turns out (thanks, Sylvie) that Gherardi has managed to wrangle funding from the French ANSM -- <i>l’Agence Nationale de Sécurité du Médicament et des produits de santé</i> -- which is how he can afford the supply of nanodiamond tracers.<b>That's</b> how you do it, people.</p> <p>Gherardi is now <a href="http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/aluminium-dans-des-vaccins-nous-ne-pouvons-plus-perdre-de-temps-22-09-2017-7277523.php">whining to the French media</a> about the ANSM not paying enough attention to his claims, and not giving him <b>more</b> money.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367019&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mi_eOXFCDJdJWECAUJ7tVhXxH8Hy--iVnDIQ7lv3ZbI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367019">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367020" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507732521"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Coming out on <a href="https://www.elsevier.com/books/controversies-in-vaccine-safety/shaw/978-0-12-803254-1">October 26 from Elsevier</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>Controversies in Vaccine Safety : A Critical Review<br /> Edited by Christopher A. Shaw , Edited by Claire Dwoskin , Edited by Lluis Lujan , Edited by Lucija Tomljenovic </p></blockquote> <p>With contributions from Shoenfeld (on ASIA), Gherardi (on MMF), Exley, disgraced fraudster Mikovits, and <b>Vinu Arumugham</b>.<br /> Brian Hooker recycles the "MMR causes autism" story -- evidently Wakefield wasn't available.<br /> Thimerosal is still relevant, with a chapter by Dorea.<br /> Shaw and Tomljenovic get to recycle their current retracted work <b>yet again</b> as "Neurodevelopmental toxicity associated with the use of aluminum vaccine adjuvants".</p> <p>CAN HAVE REVIEW PLZ?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367020&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DFskajYKBXrou2jD-hXoL2NYoTkZetdzWf8iyCFZ_i0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367020">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367021" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507733428"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does that egotistical loser really think he's being "persecuted" here? Doesnt getting auto-modded require repeated douchiness?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367021&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YOASMd4jdTiLSY0A-Q03CYAgMxBmpQHIVUCwFCB4ijo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367021">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367022" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507736332"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Doesnt getting auto-modded require repeated douchiness?</i></p> <p>That's unpossible, for I am on auto-moderation and...<br /> let me think about that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367022&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IW80Kcga9L0-UzJtATg7aF9EpMgB8u-XglDrGU4rQFk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367022">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367023" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507736497"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>While the following statement doesn't have anything to do with this so called paper that was retracted, it does deal with issues of not vaccinating. It concerns a large hep A outbreak in MI and is by Bill Marler a food attorney.</p> <p>In developed countries, children often escape infection in early childhood and reach adulthood without immunity. Ironically, these improved economic and sanitary conditions may lead to an accumulation of adults who have never been infected and who have no immunity. This higher susceptibility in older age groups may lead to higher disease rates and large outbreaks can occur in these communities.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367023&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kvEQH_2mMR8L1k-OJEuUnYM-LQUbfs_pa5YlFLEc1DQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367023">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367024" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507737245"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I am afraid I regard all this crap Aluminutti pseudoscience as the equivalent of this:<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XqwQXqUbX8">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XqwQXqUbX8</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367024&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bGoZDSyo1CWJABeSFxS2tCL6rEC-qkHqjhbrmQBVWWg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367024">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367025" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507738257"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Google the words “Dochniak” and “vaccine” for the specifics."</p> <p>Throw in quack and nonsense. You'll have better luck finding his stuff.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367025&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wEdF7b8hy_24DfMgwMjgzXp3Q6Ein4wbXqPPbBIzc50"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dean (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367025">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367026" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507738955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@hdb</p> <p>Ah, terribly sorry if I inadvertently insulted you. :0</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367026&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BTmndyJkw5wANu-iimpumB_rDhHzC9t1suvpELFnZaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367026">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367027" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507739197"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/10/study-claims-vaccines-autism-link-scientists-find-fake-data-have-rage-stroke/">Ars Technica</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>Ars made several efforts to get in touch with Li but has received no response. Shaw said she left the lab in 2015 and took the data with her. But she was still listed as being at UBC on the study, which was submitted in January 2017. Shaw said this was an “error in proofreading.”</p> <p>Dan Li, who also goes by Alice Li, has retained a lawyer, according to Shaw. The lawyer Shaw named did not immediately respond to Ars’ request for comment.</p> <p>As for Shaw, he says the altered images “were not significant anyway.” </p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367027&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a1XKq-SVqUtRHtFidVI75KhXafumvThPPDRDkNbwfsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367027">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367028" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507741391"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Ah, terribly sorry if I inadvertently insulted you. :0</i></p> <p>I should think so. I expect to be <b>advertantly</b> insulted.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367028&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fCLU5BeAavQYsTFX3CkIKKUxfSQWP9ZwEoqXESTJQIk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367028">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367029" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507741410"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As someone who spent half an hour this afternoon explaining to an in-house auditor why her figure was every so very slightly different from mine (turned out to be a very small difference in the scale of the y-axis) for a paper that will never be publicly published and if it's read by more than 5 people I will be shocked - I have to say that this blatant image manipulation in a *published* paper really pissed me off.</p> <p>I'm busting my butt (as is my auditor) for something that very few people will ever see while these academics are *publishing* bullshit? Bah, and a pox on all their houses.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367029&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vfJAjHLi6Bqrzz5otluPVL5Bf7xpGO9W3o5wmPwrY5E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367029">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367030" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507743359"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@hdb</p> <p>Yeah true, but I'd still be miffed if someone seemed to call me a douche, so I just wanted to clarify. And you're a polite dude as far as I know so it would've been rude to just let it hang. </p> <p>Sometimes my filter doesn't catch all of the dumb stuff that's not right. :/</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367030&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sFz0Pjmxee5EYCbwG6jrs2xWh-1-KOjacmwKekWjYME"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367030">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367031" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507751673"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would be a little more inclined to feel sorry for MJD if he didn't whine about his treatment in <b>every single post</b> . </p> <p>And if he had anything useful to say. ...or even amusingto say.</p> <p>But no. There are no redeeming features in any MJD post.</p> <p>As to Shaw, his contortions are getting more and more incredible. I wonder in Alice Li will sue. That will be a circus in need of some monkeys.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367031&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KKS6wOZqioP6IeTv6VoAinQp30b2S2Wmm98mo0uusmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367031">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367032" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507754754"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In essence, Orac has subjected me to a public flogging and any attempt to provide a rebuttal is impossible.</p></blockquote> <p>We wouldn't know about it if you didn't keep pointing it out. It's only public because you make it so.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367032&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3X43WPzswpyISGltaWKoVurJ6zh_QzXjSEMh0eLIfus"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367032">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367033" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507757323"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LW is correct.</p> <p>One issue - ORAC didn't subject you to a public flogging. He subjected your theories to a public flogging. Big difference.</p> <p>Start your own blog to rebut. You know though, no one will seek it out except the occasional anti vax loon.</p> <p>Guess what? I've dropped lots of beliefs over the years.Yes, sometimes it hurts a little, but it's healthy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367033&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KGLRkmPbtLNMM-XljElt0sRuqUtXAL2p8se4ELwOiWM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jane Ostentatious (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367033">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367034" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507758834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It was Thanksgiving in Canada last weekend, so I thought the timing of this news was very appropriate.</p> <blockquote><p>Shaw must have tenure or pictures of the Dean having an affair. I can’t think of any other reasons why he isn’t long gone.</p></blockquote> <p>Shaw is a full professor so doubtless he has tenure. I don't think academic fraud is protected, however. We shall see...</p> <blockquote><p>Dan Li, who also goes by Alice Li, has retained a lawyer, according to Shaw...As for Shaw, he says the altered images “were not significant anyway.” </p></blockquote> <p>I can smell the flop sweat from here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367034&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9Rp5fbtG-J03yRPV8kKxNL4eJzfPP8o7YNbrRAK5bww"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367034">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367035" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507765529"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>But she was still listed as being at UBC on the study, which was submitted in January 2017. Shaw said this was an “error in proofreading.”</p></blockquote> <p>Making an "error in proofreading" for the first author on a short list? My children have come up with far better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367035&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vByR9e98EJpKslteNT9IXnfGrGwoHYpgSZx5bs4I-10"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367035">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367036" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507768542"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I flogged, therefore. I am.</p> <p>ZDogg is saying Orac is going to do a sit down with him. Sick! I hope you guys get to put a CME on it</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367036&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UAHhMkfTBa7_v7NRJmcHre9QImL6QxVJX3OU4XAVikw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MarkN (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367036">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367037" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507792214"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mark: I am SO down for that!</p> <p>ZDogg isn't as hard core a skeptic as Orac is, but he's no woomeister either. And he's funny as shit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367037&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Mz0Z5QjSGuk9s1Iq2d0cz6mXAQYO18v2X_dUbtNvkeo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367037">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367038" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507793102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jane Ostentatious (#82) writes,</p> <p>ORAC didn’t subject you to a public flogging. He subjected your theories to a public flogging. Big difference.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>That's absurd, here's a quote from Orac:</p> <p>"According to anti-vaccine zealots, now it’s the packaging and delivery systems used for vaccines that cause autism. It never ends. It never will end. Because, to the anti-vaccine, first and foremost, it’s always about the vaccines. Always. No matter what the evidence shows. Never forget that."</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-they-never-end/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-t…</a></p> <p>A public apology from Orac and retraction of the post referenced above would clear the muddy waters.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367038&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vCNQRkLEYrjKjGOhYhLUO-cwpseYRX5mpUew_YqjmKI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367038">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367039" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507796816"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>A public apology from Orac and retraction of the post referenced above would clear the muddy waters.</i></p> <p>Why should anyone apologize for telling the truth? On the other hand, it's a good sign that you're finally admitting that you are anti-vaccine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367039&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dyfk43YeXe2iiXJl2hYtYX-OY3c_346nP620XOWOBjI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367039">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367040" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507801730"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris Preston (#80) writes,</p> <p>There are no redeeming features in any MJD post.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Orac consistently deletes the posts that would encourage the minions (e.g., Chris Preston) to think independently.</p> <p>For example, here's a list of allergens that everyone needs to consider before receiving a vaccine.</p> <p><a href="http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/components-Allergens.htm">http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/components-Allergens.htm</a></p> <p>Q. Is there a science-based explanation for the continued use of latex in vaccine packaging.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367040&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dUT538LH18s4I5FnobLnYcVUNYkiwCibXUl0z4328Z4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367040">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367041" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507802144"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Making an “error in proofreading” for the first author on a short list?</p></blockquote> <p>That's not even an error. One's affiliation should be listed as where the work was done. If there's some need to indicate that an author has moved on, then one adds a "current address" footnote.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367041&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e53ErMRab2F4aQViLKg4BmZNJX4M4zgxq6s2dKfhFCU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367041">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367042" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507806532"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>That’s not even an error. One’s affiliation should be listed as where the work was done. If there’s some need to indicate that an author has moved on, then one adds a “current address” footnote.</p></blockquote> <p>Indeed, thanks for pointing that out. I still don't have confidence UBC will launch an adequate investigation and/or action against Shaw et al. given the money they bring in.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367042&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eeQGDkx9hCA0d5wauItrAHVvckfSGnzpEYnz57zGnIs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367042">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367043" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507807962"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417#">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417#</a><br /> shows no sign that the paper has been retracted, or that it will be .Do I have unreasonable expectations as to the timeline, or is it just a slow process?</p> <p>As far as other business - - -</p> <p>Free to a good home, <i>Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection)</i> by our very own loon, Michael J. Dochniak.</p> <p>Send an e-mail to <a href="mailto:iwantthatbook@mail.com">iwantthatbook@mail.com</a> and post a note here to let others know it's been claimed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367043&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uMiO91_cAWM0dvfVTXmq6qlBp40ga48_a3Zou5g-9Y0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367043">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367044" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507809509"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Writing those "highlights" bullet points for Elsevier journals is a complete pain in the ass, BTW. Li et al. did not do a good job, either.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367044&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZmRu96-icui8gn5UgUVK0qnNFmlRiQY1f5_uxd4SV80"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367044">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367045" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507809540"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Then again, glass houses and so forth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367045&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vtFVkNkNktPk-hLNGGeLTFHBvNI2NdM5SSRX8aIQ8TE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367045">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367046" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507812593"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD - your name was not mentioned.</p> <p>Stop acting like a fool. You will never get an apology or retraction. You do not merit one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367046&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_L6ShufrD4F-H6T-kFgtyuVkc_2g49G5yjiNfV3Zvlg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jane Ostentatious (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367046">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367047" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507816178"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i><br /><blockquote>As for Shaw, he says the altered images “were not significant anyway.” </blockquote></i></p> <p>I can smell the flop sweat from here.</p> <p>I have a strong suspicion that Shaw and Tomljenovic have included the forged figures in their chapter in the new book, and it's too late to remove them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367047&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="slsT-G2sHIgzSNG0o5gAhNw1D5ArblyHQNaIH1kIbWs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367047">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367048" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507818776"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD: I have a gift for you: an Up sized bunch of balloons!</p> <p>"an error in proofreading" is when the auditor says "you missed a trailing zero in table 87, column 9 row 53". This is not that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367048&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8BTPm20UUHQHBWSgL4Hy5xnrlkMBCppIiy3gDZcE42g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367048">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367049" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507826504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MJD</p> <p>Geez man! Do you know how to post in a thread without talking about your baseless latex conspiracy theories? </p> <p>That's probably why you're in auto-mod in the first place.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367049&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TnVJgXxNTZiZelBzZYclOScEtt6V9SHP50i5iAt8Ins"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Epsilon (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367049">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367050" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507834148"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And there's been a taker for the book. I should get it in the mail tomorrow or Saturday.</p> <p>Keep an eye out, AC. I hope you find some entertainment. But don't say I didn't warn you about the poems.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367050&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vU9mk1HwmrSvysNHUO-B9ZgpcGYt_OKeXyW7fL--Cw0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367050">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367051" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507835062"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB@76,</p> <p>I just happen to love that tidbit at the end of the Ars article:</p> <blockquote><p>In follow-up questions, Shaw said that if future data does not support a link between autism and aluminum, he would reconsider his hypothesis and research. But there’s reason to be skeptical. When the WHO criticized his work in 2012 and pointed out a large body of research showing vaccine safety, Shaw responded that the WHO is “entitled to its opinion."</p></blockquote> <p>I didn't know the WHO was in the business of providing opinions ;)</p> <p>Source: <a href="https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/10/study-claims-vaccines-autism-link-scientists-find-fake-data-have-rage-stroke/">https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/10/study-claims-vaccines-autism-li…</a></p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367051&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dSfLe_GQkaXeNXDbVIw97K9DBnoKno8b3qgUSaLPNB0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 12 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367051">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367052" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507903115"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>After the discovery of improperly performed science, it was only a matter of time before this would be retracted. Now if only propagators of misinformation such as anti-vax websites would get the memo and stop promoting this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367052&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JaYYHJMd8vo5M-my0ZC0S8f1tED3ZvzGG3TDAQX_dQo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 13 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367052">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367053" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507924244"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD #87<br /> I still don't see your name specifically mentioned in that quote you provided.</p> <p>You will never get an apology and retraction because you don't deserve it. Have the self respect to stop asking for it.</p> <p>The waters are not "muddied" - they are crystal clear to the rest of us.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367053&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wQCOZLHJPG36g8YsrRY77Keea78ZZX_EU8GKGLMruzI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jane Ostentatious (not verified)</span> on 13 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367053">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367054" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507936509"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Did somebody mention <a href="https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/10/13/201574">papers about vaccines</a>?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367054&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Dp8Og_kyjOesDkKTg06a_IprUwWgc37gUARYXOgWLsM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 13 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367054">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367055" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507973484"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Another disease/problem caused by vaccines to add to the list previously provided by a poster (NWOdiot?): Projectile Spitting.</p> <p>Just saw that one cited by a "Vaxxed" reviewer on Amazon.</p> <p>Curiously, Ask Dr. Sears does not cite vaccination as a cause of spitting up, projectile or otherwise (is he being paid by Big Pharma to cover up the connection?). In an online baby forum, one parent claims her infant starting projectile spitting _before_ its shots. Obviously the anticipation of shots caused the problem so it's still vaccine-related. :(</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367055&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u0uj_0oMFZSB3XRD3p8H0WYktSh2K0b0yNd6-c8wV3U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367055">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367056" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508014834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>DB,</p> <p>Did they take cue from this movie: <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2140479/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_7">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2140479/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_7</a> (it does include lot of projectile spitting...)</p> <p>Al</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367056&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U5D2rH0DvG_ne5GyeR9zafG4PFUzBs3iTvQ21yhgKmE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367056">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367057" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508024679"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>In an online baby forum, one parent claims her infant starting projectile spitting _before_ its shots.</i></p> <p>Bitten by a radioactive llama. Worst superpower EVAH.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367057&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WraETzuVBQm0JvVy_aVbvxTkF8n7h1aXH2YuFv4D2l0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 14 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367057">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367058" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508137454"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>CBC is reporting on this today with responses from Shaw.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-autsism-vaccine-paper-retraction-chris-shaw-1.4351855">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-autsism-vaccine-pape…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367058&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AHB3Wqh_1RWVNtBj90k4l-Kc3JrZcYElenmKBN9Y5A8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Paul de Boer (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367058">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367059" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508139932"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jane Ostentatious (#95) writes,</p> <p>You will never get an apology or retraction.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>If Orac's respectful-insolence powers are absolute, there can be no justice.</p> <p>The honorable Dorit Reiss would be the first to admit that Orac's moderation powers are unlimited and therefore could be considered "abusive" based on the absence of any check-and-balance.</p> <p>With my experience, when Orac is wrong his behaviors approach bipolar in that his demeanor becomes meaner, madder, and moderation happy (MMM).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367059&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FJFO-oKhsOHMVTfDDhaod6W0jkMAUVjwdaH4p56IthU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367059">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367060" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508141807"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I note ol' blinken box gets the first citation in the CBC article:</p> <blockquote><p>However, subsequent scrutiny has raised questions about the validity of the data, with one doctor calling the paper <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/21/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-2017-aluminum-edition/"> "anti-vaccine pseudoscience." </a></p></blockquote> <p>Now that a second paper has been pulled I wonder if Shaw is beginning to have nightmares of being pursued by <i>The Grand Cremaster (Imperial Retractor of All Bollocks)</i>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367060&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zgPKBuwECRfi0Jv7ivPd-4LUVD5iz1oxEVL2A_VNWOo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367060">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367061" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508142094"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>From the CBC item:</p> <blockquote><p>Shaw said he's likely finished working on papers concerning vaccines after this retraction.</p> <p>"I'm honestly not sure at this point that I want to dabble in [vaccines] anymore," he said. "We have some projects that are ongoing that have been funded that we feel duty-bound to complete that are on this topic. Frankly, I doubt if I will do it again after that."</p></blockquote> <p>Dabble? An unfortunate word choice, Dr Shaw.<br /> Did Dwoskin et al turn off the money tap after this latest fiasco? Inquiring minds (me) want to know.<br /> I wonder where this leaves Tomljenovic?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367061&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YydjoG71ccXhsG9s2LwCX-ZqAa6_GtKrWB2zbR-4Kqw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367061">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367062" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508143665"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Babies spit up. The cardiac sphincter is immature in the newborn. Sometimes the spit up is pretty profound. Or they could have an atresia. There are so many other well recognized causes of spit up in babies and anticipatory vaccination ain't one of them. Even Bob Sears knows if he tries to claim something like that, he'd have the whole pediatric community coming down on him for it.</p> <p>MJD: It's Orac's blog. He can keep you in auto moderation because you keep breaking his rules. Grow a pair and stop whining about it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367062&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FMIZ9EJ0waYDPZ5XRMndXdhAsrTb_1oHnZjAOGCqE-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367062">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367063" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508144530"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For the anti-vaxer it is quite normal to declare not to have a conflict of interest.. In the line below they then state: The authors thank the Dwoskin Family Foundation for support.</p> <p>This happens here:<br /> Example: <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23902317">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23902317</a> </p> <p>It is also possible, that they give no declaration of conflict of interest here:</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23932735">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23932735</a></p> <p>But they thank the Dwoskin Family Foundation for support</p> <p>Also in ths paper <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23902317">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23902317</a> the authors LT,SC, and CP declare not to have any conflict of interest.</p> <p>However- again- they thank the Dwoskin Family Foundation for support.</p> <p>Also this paper is seriously flawd: They claim: " Given the persistently infected women seem not to develop cancer if they are regulary screened"<br /> There is enough evidence of the contrary<br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819810/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819810/</a></p> <p>When a paper should be published the authors are asked many questions (if one has stocks of a pharmaceutical company, if one has received honoraria from vaccine manufacturers etc pp) Obviously this is different for antivaxers- but is a violation of good scientific practise</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367063&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bFjIWkbG3iap3c6ywYaotM5GV-81OTjD6mlwAEMrjXY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WolfgangM (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367063">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367064" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508145588"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Panacea (#108) writes,</p> <p>He can keep you in auto moderation because you keep breaking his rules.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>Does that rule apply to everyone (i.e., Latex teachings)?</p> <p>If Orac is really interested in an open discussion about vaccine safety, he'd allow me to occasionally speak about some of the proactive exclusionary-measures being taken to remove natural rubber latex from vaccine packaging.</p> <p>@Orac,</p> <p>If you bend the MJD "rule" once in awhile my sincere thanks!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367064&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4dSkV-9FGCPkKT77HZzJUWy6fdMJqIK_rTp75H3bdv0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367064">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367065" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508146079"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The last paragraph is very interesting - looks like we might have seen the last of Shaw.....</p> <p>When it comes to this latest UBC study, Gardam said the university is going to need the original data if it determines an investigation is required.</p> <p>Shaw said he's likely finished working on papers concerning vaccines after this retraction.</p> <p>"I'm honestly not sure at this point that I want to dabble in [vaccines] anymore," he said. "We have some projects that are ongoing that have been funded that we feel duty-bound to complete that are on this topic. Frankly, I doubt if I will do it again after that."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367065&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7BVfS41d92J3ja5rbJshU2nbsH38zrT8jdY8uBrgp8U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367065">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367066" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508146993"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>With my experience, when Orac is wrong his behaviors approach bipolar in that his demeanor becomes meaner, madder, and moderation happy (MMM).</i></p> <p>Oh FFS, the word "bipolar" <b>means</b> something, and it is not that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367066&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3PjxGKw_Mk35Ryo1i3kWPsuBOArPrOOXTxZdW7JCplI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367066">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367067" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508147027"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>hdb: "Bitten by a radioactive llama. Worst superpower EVAH."</p> <p>I dunno. Assuming proportionate speed/agility and balance came with the bite, someone could actually do a lot with that power set. Not to mention, they'd never fall and could keep their balance in the trickiest of terrain.</p> <p>MJD: Man, you don't understand the 'net at all, do you? If you don't like the rules, set up your own darn blog where you can whine all you like. Frankly Orac is in the right on this, and you just can't see that boring everyone with your latex fetish gets old.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367067&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wPOQJP9PHrVHei2NONEbRJuE2ZXXQX8iWUBhdRwqpVw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367067">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367068" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508147272"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD: Also, you do realize Orac's away right now? He has to set the filters a little higher when he's away, or we'd end up with Trumpanzees everywhere. (Of course, you are one, but that's beside the point.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367068&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aAxEZObO0iGb6vRpMqUwZTLDZBgvhCT83hFptj0thJQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367068">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367069" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508147638"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>“I’m honestly not sure at this point that I want to dabble in [vaccines] anymore,” he said. “We have some projects that are ongoing that have been funded that we feel duty-bound to complete that are on this topic. Frankly, I doubt if I will do it again after that.”</p></blockquote> <p>These outta be a hoot to read in light of Shaw/Tomljenovic's latest and most egregious example of anti-vaxx pseudoscience. I'll wager they'll be negative findings if published at all. This is not to say that this was Shaw's plan all along and Tomljenovic will carry the anti-vaxx torch on.</p> <p>Aside from that, I find his excuses for the manipulated images appalling bollox. Question is will the UBC accept this and let him stay on or sack him and Tomljenovic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367069&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-njRqUkJrftqDF8nAz6REiDzyaIO9Z8T7gR9-EFodQM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367069">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367070" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508147707"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I find it interesting that Shaw used the word dabble. The definition I found of dabble doesn't lead one to believe Shaw was a very serious researcher: take part in an activity in a casual or superficial way. "he dabbled in writing as a young man" synonyms: toy with, dip into, flirt with, tinker with, trifle with, play with, dally with "he dabbled in politics"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367070&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AzmGnXKTO8SqUPUkMiJSMp_akZmfVWb9KHLcU-83Xlg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367070">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367071" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508147893"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJB, you know there are sites that cater to your latex fetish.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367071&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7iVFDghLbwxXT54ljBFPCgx0g1r_e9Gm28RkjfiEIHs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367071">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367072" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508148457"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#105 hdb - <i>"Bitten by a radioactive llama. Worst superpower EVAH."</i><br /> ...<br /> Ah yes. I remember Saturday mornings and the sound wafting in from the kids watching TV in the family room:<br /> ♪♪♫ Llama-Man, Llama-Man. Does whatever a Llama can... ♪♫<br /> ...<br /> It's funny that Hollywood never got round to making a blockbuster ripoff of that particular cartoon for some reason.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367072&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OPoEY6Y6ASOgW2BzgsQXnd5zvgpCggyan7Mb1YxJtNQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Reality (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367072">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367073" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508151281"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Richard Bly:</p> <p>Although I know you may have said it in jest but perhaps you may have unwittingly stumbled upon why MJD so perseverates on latex.</p> <p>And, no, I am not entirely joking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367073&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XR3ZPEPfNTVZpJ08PNAEZejQqQgs2xeqrsJwRv8P4r4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367073">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367074" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508152013"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>The honorable Dorit Reiss would be the first to admit that Orac’s moderation powers are unlimited and therefore could be considered “abusive” based on the absence of any check-and-balance.</i></p> <p>No, because unlike you, Reiss understands the law.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367074&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tkj_slM26b_WeJfDrBNJID9AAhKgTViOGeU3GNjOYeo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367074">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367075" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508152185"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac is a government? </p> <p>Respectful Insolence is a government? </p> <p>Orac has every right to not allow strangers in his home for any reason (barring police officers with a warrant, or other similar official visits). </p> <p>Orac has a right to allow or disallow comments on his blog however he wants. Nothing abusive in him choosing how to moderate. It's part of his freedom of action. He has rights. </p> <p>He's the most right-endowed blinky box around.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367075&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iz4O8KS7cxOOyaBk5MMND2zNX0dLeFu_lQQ7WXi2Mg8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367075">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1367074#comment-1367074" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367076" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508154019"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If Orac’s respectful-insolence powers are absolute, there can be no justice.</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://www.popehat.com/2013/06/21/public-censorship-and-private-speech/">His blog, his rules</a>. If you don't like them, <b>go someplace else</b> where you can find "justice."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367076&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tm1v2BN1X5BiN3A37kMLBVvYDIfYqzwfPPj8TnDv5gE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367076">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367077" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508158222"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Michael, since you don't understand, here is a little cartoon to help you along.<br /><a href="https://xkcd.com/1357/">https://xkcd.com/1357/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367077&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RA5MSqx7bjFEPdzOPIdNq1yLWTbYqDBNgyp7BKXtnxY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367077">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367078" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508169133"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac sucker punched me with this:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-they-never-end/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/10/anti-vaccine-contortions-t…</a></p> <p>Then, tried to bully me with this:</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-prometheus/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/02/mr-michael-dochniak-meet-p…</a></p> <p>Now, he auto-moderates me to tears.</p> <p>@Orac,</p> <p>You're the only dealer I know who plays with a deck full of jokers and wins EVERYTIME.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367078&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fu2a5twIZWFjnsn6HRT1oRRSe6aaXLl4draME9aRANc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367078">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367079" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508172756"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here, Michael. Here's some cheese to go with that whine.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367079&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ddLAFW5dv0Yf4XagJCrspRE6T2XCRFzRSXtBxdG6sV8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367079">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367080" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508172833"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would note that the first link MJD cites has over 1000 comments, where he completely failed to defend his silly fetish. He was under no moderation at the time, and that he was probably the single largest contributor to that number. </p> <p>Spoiler: most of his post were ‘buy my book’.</p> <p>The second link has many fewer comments, but was at a time MJD had flounced out of the discussion, but only for a while. </p> <p>In short, Mikey, you had a chance, and blew it bigley.</p> <p>The link to the review by friend Prometheus is no more, but is on the Wayback Machine. I’ve posted it in the past, and will dig it up if anyone asks.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367080&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="U8WLUdQ7jlRzWWjGfIDaEC2h58-zxcdU5MkpFmOhzfA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367080">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367081" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508174568"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I like turtles</p> <p><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Burnside_Fountain_-_Worcester%2C_MA_-_DSC05765.jpg">https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Burnside_Fountain_-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367081&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uHVD545dAPLAMzAa3xAJw_bp79nX2-nY4tB6Jd6AJLg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gilbert (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367081">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367082" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508187740"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here are two more articles on the Shaw/Tomljenovic poo show:<br /><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-vaccine-autism-paper-pulled-1.4357568">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-vaccine-autism-paper…</a></p> <blockquote><p>Lucija Tomljenovic, Shaw's co-author, said she agreed to the retraction but "had nothing to do with either collecting or analyzing any of the actual data."</p></blockquote> <p>Then what in Hades is her name doing on the list of authors?</p> <p><a href="https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ubc-vows-investigation-after-furor-over-vaccine-study/article36611348/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;amp">https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ubc-vows-investi…</a>;</p> <blockquote><p>Dr. Shaw also distanced himself and Dr. Tomljenovic from the paper that was withdrawn last year.</p> <p>Dr. Shaw said he and Dr. Tomljenovic, who once worked in his lab, were only "peripherally involved."</p> <p>"All of the work was conducted in the lab of the senior author, Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld in Tel Aviv. Hence, to make the claim that this work is "ours" is not correct," Dr. Shaw said in the e-mail.</p></blockquote> <p>They went to an awful lot of trouble to get it re-published for work they were only "peripherally involved in" and distancing themselves from. This pair of so-called scientists are a disgusting embarrassment to the scientific community. They won't even own their work and conveniently saddle their latest cock-up on someone in China.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367082&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nh1yHB-yzW1WQhqCxOsKZ-t9QX5B70q-4MznECttcD4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367082">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367083" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508188182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Yet here <a href="http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2016/02/16/ubc-prof-defends-study-linking-vaccine-and-behaviour-changes.html">http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2016/02/16/ubc-prof-defends-stud…</a></p> <p>He defends the study and admits Tomljenovic had contributed to the study. The fact they all run in the same Aluminati circle jerk is supposed to escape our attention I suppose.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367083&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2lCA3HtH9iK_-mV9wFL5Jg63Y3MmoRTNE6Bgjbok594"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367083">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367084" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508190046"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MJD: You put silly ideas out there, in the public sphere, in the first place. No one put a gun to your head and made you write your silly books. Orac and Prometheus were equally free to read them and critique them.</p> <p> If they'd gone to your house, opened your files or gotten into your manuscripts, that would obviously be wrong, and you'd be right to be incensed. But, again, you released those books into the public sphere. </p> <p>If an author gets published, and gets bad reviews, do they demand that the paper of person who reviewed those books retract the review? Nope, they don't. Because that would be stupid. They released their work into a public sphere, and the reviewer is free to say whatever they like about the work. </p> <p>(Mostly; no newspaper or entertainment blog would accept a review that was just a series of swear words, even if the movie or book was just that bad.)</p> <p>Some spaces do have limits, such as this blog, because the administrator has to consider how to maintain the best possible environment. Having you bang on endlessly about your fetish is not conducive to having the best possible environment.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367084&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PR8xTfaA-utn6RDumzDW5_6kQnOJh4_dEfdXi-7tAoA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367084">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367085" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508191696"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry for the serial posts but Shaw's pollyanna routine really chaps my bum. From the second article I posted:</p> <blockquote><p>He said they concluded: "It appears as if some of the images, in mostly what were non-significant results, had been flipped."</p></blockquote> <p>Bollox. Several bands for PCR and Western Blots were manipulated in both controls and treatments. As for the controls they either a.) didn't run the experiment correctly and had to fudge the controls which invalidates the treatments or b.) there were no differences between the controls and treatments. As for the treatments, they manipulated the images to show differences between males and females. Then there are the statistics. So eff off Shaw and Tomljenovic; UBC should sack the two of you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367085&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FVgBdhqy-VA10drBtBewTa-Zgkm6IsMaXwK6E-kooaE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367085">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367086" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508192474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Then what in Hades is her name doing on the list of authors? </p></blockquote> <p>Collecting a paycheck? It’s nice work, if you can get it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367086&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G3LPY6VUnE823ixKXnTNN6DrxNs1hj7Phq129jH-fsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367086">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367087" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508199390"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Dr. Shaw said the lead author on the 2017 retracted paper, Dr. Dan Li, "took her notebooks and original images from the lab when she left in 2015."</i></p> <p>If you don't have electronic records of the data, only "notebooks and original images", then you're not doing science, it's some kind of dress-up game.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367087&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="R-pvFXs0ig1W2ybgeWOPuC5i_iFMnKRFf6Xrso1_spw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367087">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367088" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508199728"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I would note that the first link MJD cites has over 1000 comments, where he completely failed to defend his silly fetish. He was under no moderation at the time, and that he was probably the single largest contributor to that number.</p> <p>Spoiler: most of his post were ‘buy my book’.</p></blockquote> <p>Yes. That was epic.</p> <p>In all the wrong ways for MJD. </p> <p>I remember the Prometheus posts about the book fondly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367088&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lvJgBqNc5GobkNV4jNYMhx4Yo9Gd-dnI7DEss3xbR5k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367088">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367089" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508201164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I remember the Prometheus posts about the book fondly. </p></blockquote> <p>Indeed. As previously noted, I’ve had a chance to compare the book to the review. Friend Prometheus was very kind to MJD. ‘Tis a darn shame MJD doesn’t understand that, and slink quietly away.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367089&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W3GoJjzAccB3xAP8rUmMIERvbUjXtkTe0k5FNTrtPnk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367089">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367090" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508202674"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Since Shaw evidently pays attention to Pubpeer threads, it is a pity that he hasn't responded to questions about Shaw &amp; Petrik (2009). Questions like "How many mice did you study?"<br /><a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/C958FC46D73CF8CA59CE59A3414506">https://pubpeer.com/publications/C958FC46D73CF8CA59CE59A3414506</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367090&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r_B4lXVkHcQBssQs6ljS3sKTTHWHUjlqFuePYujUDkY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 16 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367090">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367091" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508230530"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>That</i> "study" was a hot mess too as you probably already know HDB. That has a laundry list of problematic methods and results.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367091&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9gxYjYRz2HsbQwqv4AcG8MG_gsUjpnBXAYzFaxHPRzQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367091">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367092" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508232460"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Then what in Hades is her name doing on the list of authors?</i></p> <p>Click bait.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367092&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oR9zO_oH-eFk-8qkl3vAFcx2ltYxJhPS6LTfpFVpLWU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367092">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367093" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508235204"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Dr. Shaw said he and Dr. Tomljenovic, who once worked in his lab, were only “peripherally involved.”</p></blockquote> <p>So she's gone again? Sorry, I'm still recovering from "doing my taxes," which I suspect are badly screwed up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367093&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CDOw1aoJwj2Zk-KbzcVS1xMZ_CmH2-JOwnfSaP3i5e4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 17 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367093">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367094" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508308051"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm just curious how come that Shaw and Tomljenovic's papers are usually retraced after being already published? If the papers have been accepted for publishing, doesn't that mean that they had already been peer-reviewed and gotten the green light? How is it possible that "serious concerns regarding the scientific soundness of the article" are only discovered after some paper had been published in "an international peer-reviewed journal"? I would appreciate the answer very much, thank you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367094&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DyqdNjiPbvNQv4l7hRA55vxZtremCyZAikwtp5ypTao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vanessa (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367094">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367095" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508310574"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Herr Dr Bimler #138</p> <p>In the paper Shaw &amp; Petric I calculated the volume of the injections they injected in the neck of the mice. And the the mice made their "swimming tests" to detect behavioral abnormalities.</p> <p>I calculated which volume should be injected in a humans neck with a body weight of 70 kg within this series. </p> <p>It is between 400 ml and 2400 ml. If this volume will be theoretically injected in my neck,I will be a very bad swimmer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367095&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5h8EULqPVV47Cxu4kgmYbpeZbkkOO_zvOTDafAd0c1k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WolfgangM (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367095">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367096" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508313858"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Vanessa: the types of journals that they are publishing in are pretty much "pay to publish" journals. And don't always know what they are taking in. After all, why would a journal of inorganic chemistry know anything about aluminium as an adjuvent? It's not their field of expertise.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367096&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="P0kho8oABCUgz8VzOAG6vY0fR4rn-UPscDmbwAxA9B4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367096">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367097" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508315629"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks for the reply, I understand what you mean. On the other hand, isn't the editor supposed to find reviewers with similar field of expertise as authors'? That's only how peer-reviewing makes sense to me... I mean, why was the disputed paper evaluated by outside experts after it had been published and not before?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367097&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CMgcBBO8otm2dE9kdoFvbPQegbixhzqzxM-DIW0p3cs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vanessa (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367097">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1367096#comment-1367096" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367098" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508321814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vanessa, this is what has come to be known as postpublication peer review. The initial reviewers assigned by a journal's editor-in-chief (or scientific editor, depending on the size of the publication) generally assume good faith on the part of the authors and, given that they're volunteers, only have so much time. Detecting image manipulation (as but one example in this case) isn't really part of the gig.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367098&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GRajk3keQf8pD5JFYNZEULW0wWtSaiwc7xwL005NJ2I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367098">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367099" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508328420"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thank you, Narad, for making it clear. In my field (social anthropology) there is no post-publication peer review, hence my confusion :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367099&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bnKjBsGMjQbisULT6xzbZkrDxJP7UbqyWf744YqCVXI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vanessa (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367099">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1367098#comment-1367098" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367100" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508330166"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In my field (social anthropology) there is no post-publication peer review, hence my confusion</p></blockquote> <p>I imagine that there is, except that it takes place within the pages of journals.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367100&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z-AW-0isGR1mTK-KxhGPE4Fw1Kf4icJXn5cq9jwui4Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367100">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367101" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508331549"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I calculated which volume should be injected in a humans neck with a body weight of 70 kg within this series.</i></p> <p>It is between 400 ml and 2400 ml. If this volume will be theoretically injected in my neck,I will be a very bad swimmer.</p> <p>One of the many things missing in the Shaw-Petrik study is the *interval* between injections and testing. They don't say whether the injections happened immediately before behavioural testing (in which case the purported spinal-neuron damage was instant), or whether it was right after birth, as in their later studies. The axis on their graphs is just identified as 'weeks after testing began'.<br /> Nor do they state the N of the experiment. Without that, it's only an anecdote.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367101&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WjBiUJU66Np168ve0if8Qub-gU1YPjYJee6ThaEwCcY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367101">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367102" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508331819"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> If the papers have been accepted for publishing, doesn’t that mean that they had already been peer-reviewed and gotten the green light? How is it possible that “serious concerns regarding the scientific soundness of the article” are only discovered after some paper had been published in “an international peer-reviewed journal”?</i></p> <p>Publication was in a Special Issue of the J. Inorg. Biochem., guest-edited by Chris Exley. These are biennial events... Exley organises the Keele Meeting on Aluminium, and presentations from that meeting become papers for J.Inorg.Biochem.<br /> He is a leading light in the anti-aluminium movement, an Aluminary as it were, and he selects his own peer-reviewers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367102&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VKD6QhVEkEWk_xjUUM1cEj9CT67cmbITDYe1uwUXh4M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367102">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367103" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508367174"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This article from the Globe and Mail includes some information on Dr. Shaw's funding through the anti-vaxx Dwoskin Foundation:</p> <p><a href="https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ubc-vaccine-study-fuels-debate-over-funding/article36660109/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;amp">https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ubc-vaccine-stud…</a>;</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367103&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wXFHb4VPoAvcdYUwDyIIWGVVhC-gjZHD_b5V_lNW4Gc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 18 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367103">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367104" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508390460"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#151 brian,<br /> Thanks. Interesting last paragraph in that article:<br /><i>"In an e-mail to The Globe, Neil MacLean – a lawyer representing Dr. Li – on Wednesday said, "we are currently in discussions with Dr. Shaw to address any issues he may have.""</i><br /> .<br /> I certainly hope UBC vice-president of research Gail Murphy and any ethics committee are in on this email discussion with Li's lawyer and they aren't leaving the fox (Shaw) in charge of the henhouse. If this is intentional fraud there is a definite possibility that Li &amp; Shaw are coconspirators/fraudsters.<br /> .<br /> On top of that all that we've gotten from Shaw are excuses reminiscent of a 3 year old caught by mommy with his hand in the cookie jar and chocolate smeared around his mouth:<br /> "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know."<br /> "The dog ate my homework."<br /> "Somebody else did it."<br /> "It doesn't matter because even if it is academic fraud the fraudulent parts were few and inconsequential... trust me on that."<br /> .<br /> It would also seem prudent to go back over the earlier papers from which parts of this current disaster were plagiarized and see if they should be retracted as well. (The image manipulation present? The claimed number of mice consistent? etc.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367104&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r5_et7sGll2BWTg6FnRdEloy6eGWw4ozW3h6qL2Zx8M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Reality (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367104">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367105" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508410105"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It appears that making up sh!t as you go for papers is becoming more common. Here is just a small mistake made by a researcher in a paper about food choice by children: Now Stephanie M. Lee, writing for BuzzFeed News, has revealed that a study published in 2012 in JAMA Pediatrics – already corrected once by Wansink – grossly misrepresented the study’s findings: Although the study claimed that children “ranging from 8-11” years old were more likely to choose apples over cookies if the apples bore an Elmo sticker, BuzzFeed News found that the study was actually conducted on children aged 3 to 5. It’s a shocking “error,” and one that BuzzFeed claims is also true of another 2012 Smarter Lunchrooms study, this one about carrots and published in Preventive Medicine.</p> <p>How do you confuse 8 to 11 year olds with 3 to 5 year old children when writing a paper?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367105&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XhyvwmbdkljF3g1-uSbbjaabJf1XfQ4Yh304YnxG5R4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367105">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367106" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508419327"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, I don't know. Based on some of the commenters who pop in from time to time I've mistaken adults for 3 to 5 year old children.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367106&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-I6kWSIB4mnswmD2b4xtG4b0Zzi-wkVXjkA2K8-uz2U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">rs (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367106">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367107" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508440256"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Oh, I don’t know. Based on some of the commenters who pop in from time to time I’ve mistaken adults for 3 to 5 year old children.</p></blockquote> <p>- and the reverse is true for a minority of voters in the 2016 US Presidential Election.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367107&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Xc1qWK-6bhS5aryLiTBh92GybvqCbAHmG8_G1QmcsGM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 19 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367107">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367108" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508513270"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>How do you confuse 8 to 11 year olds with 3 to 5 year old children when writing a paper?</i></p> <p>Wansink now blames the error on the fact that data-collection was out-sourced to someone else, unacknowledged. There remains the problem that Wansick described the study as involving day-care children, in other articles and in his books. And the original (uncorrected) paper concludes that "Just as attractive names have been shown to increase the selection of healthier foods in school lunchrooms, brands and cartoon characters can do the same with <b>preliterate</b> children".</p> <p>The general impression is that the paper was originally written as a report on a pre-school intervention, but was crudely repurposed as describing a school lunchroom when Wansink needed to cement his place as America's Healthy Living Advisor.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367108&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W0c8R384KQO8BMs4hdf1VUopuul2bpCGxdTMHAh0ITk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 20 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367108">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367109" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508567649"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Wansink now blames the error on the fact that data-collection was out-sourced to someone else, unacknowledged.</p></blockquote> <p>Really? And Wansink didn't perform any checking of his own to verify that the data collected was accurate?<br /> Even by woo standards, that's an utterly pathetic excuse.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367109&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vEqOkn00wuO5gFjZlS-TUFbSTFbqXA0XboFixzRD7F8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367109">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367110" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508574109"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other antivaccine news, Jake is shocked that Orange Thinskin seems likely to appoint a pharma exec to be HHS Secretary. It might be starting to sink into whatever Jake uses for a brain that Trump will say anything to anybody, but doesn’t necessarily mean a word of it.</p> <p>His post has already drawn a comment, and <b>not</b> from Hans Litten, as you might think. The first and only comment (so far) under Jake’s post is from Jake himself.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367110&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="moyOZJ1i28J8OTix8emLU0Z6OWqYN7aEsvUnZHKgPs8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367110">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367111" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508587832"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>More from CBC News: <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-paper-retracted-autism-vaccines-1.4365455">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-paper-retracted-auti…</a></p> <blockquote><p>Asked if he was concerned about the spread of allegedly falsified data, Shaw said readers need to remember "this paper was done on mice" and take it with a grain of salt.<br /> "A lot of people that have questions about vaccine safety were making more of this paper than was warranted," he told CBC News. "We try to caution people … don't make more of it than it is, because this is a model system where this data may or may not apply to humans." </p></blockquote> <p>The word "disingenuous" comes to mind.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367111&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OdUyWy4s7pDJ5R3-D9j7JIFdsWXVnAEF-U_8V0LZWjA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367111">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367112" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508592342"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>“We try to caution people … don’t make more of it than it is"</i></p> <p>An example of Shaw cautioning people would be good. 80% of his research output since 2009 has consisted of extrapolating mouse studies to humans.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367112&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SHEhopuDrQtMfedzNTCH7AdlFgGaeuqwYik2G6kz9Y4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367112">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367113" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508592463"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other antivax news, Doctors Gatti and Montanari have taken up the "vaccines are made from freshly-harvested fetuses" blood libel.<br /><a href="http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2017/10/21/heroes/">http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2017/10/21/heroes/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367113&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Q_070OrHVO_cmchOSSf3CRoO2WS4-ZgSvTwmKbKEqT4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367113">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367114" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508593522"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>How do you confuse 8 to 11 year olds with 3 to 5 year old children when writing a<br /> paper?</p></blockquote> <p>The bigger question is how do you confuse 8 to 11 year olds with younger children while <i>Elmo</i> is involved?</p> <p>Doesn’t anyone in that fiasco know any children? Elmo’s target audience is <b>not</b> grade schoolers. I suspect most 8-year olds would turn down the <i>cookie</i> that had Elmo on it, and take the fruit.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367114&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6RQWMQd5NMIe5Wzg8kJ1tF2goyRuvWwQs9mw5HOWjrA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chemmomo (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367114">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367115" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508596531"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p><b>Bimler:</b>An example of Shaw cautioning people would be good. 80% of his research output since 2009 has consisted of extrapolating mouse studies to humans.</p></blockquote> <p>Totally absurd. Nobody does that but him. Everyone knows the real point of mouse studies is rodenticide—and the shadenfreude which comes from this. After all, the population of small-furries must be kept in-check, and the more taxdollars which can result from this / the better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367115&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uGg3jepQtPvXSss1372HMzAMrkzy5M5ptVmQ4mgBkgQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ziggy Stardust (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367115">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367116" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508597537"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p><b>Chemmomo:</b> Elmo’s target audience is not grade schoolers.</p></blockquote> <p>It <i>used</i> to be . ..but not since the movies <i>Elmo and Louise, Nightmare on Elm(o) Street, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70vNDMMiGF0&amp;t=1m41s">Tickle Me Harder</a>,</i> and the NBC racy sitcom <i>Elmo's Place.</i></p> <p>Marionette puppets age too—<i>now they look</i> like they don't, but they do. <i>Telemerase</i> activity has been confirmed; and this is actually scientific consensus now. I've seen the Lineweaver–Burk charts and Southern blots confirming all of this.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367116&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="14pi7gg52CQgGYhUdIRxO9c4g57Ynr57XzDuH8Xb6Yo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ziggy Stardust (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367116">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367117" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508597652"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Doesn’t anyone in that fiasco know any children?</i></p> <p>Somehow the reviewers missed that. Just as they missed the concluding sentence about the study addressing "preliterate children".<br /> OK, Wansink had written a paper using observations of preschool kids, which he revised at the last minute to make it about older kids. And the peer-reviewers didn't notice.</p> <p>Was it peer-reviewed at all?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367117&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="B4n6ofXG8N5NWqGIfH-IMOwhP60LSmMJtcFQBFtAZ48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367117">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367118" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508600342"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In other antivaccine news, Jake is shocked that Orange Thinskin seems likely to appoint a pharma exec to be HHS Secretary.</p></blockquote> <p>According to the folks at industry rag FiercePharma, "With Azar in the HHS role [and Scott Gottlieb at FDA], pharma could have two powerful allies at the top of the U.S. regulatory apparatus." </p> <p><a href="http://www.fiercepharma.com/regulatory/ex-lilly-boss-alex-azar-leads-field-for-hhs-job">http://www.fiercepharma.com/regulatory/ex-lilly-boss-alex-azar-leads-fi…</a>-</p> <p>Azar championed Gardasil while Deputy Secretary at HHS (he said: " HHS is committed to advancing critical health measures such as the development of new and promising vaccines to protect and advance the health of all Americans"), while Gottlieb, like CDC Director Brenda Fitzgerald, unequivocally supports vaccines.</p> <p>Of course Jake should clearly understand that people lie: in the post that Johnny mentioned, Jacob Crosby, MPH, wrote that thimerosal "has also been proven to cause autism."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367118&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zbAHr0HTgAUI5ltmuwuqlRwgguNjkYHvfh0gff69xaY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367118">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367119" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508616008"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Telemerase activity has been confirmed; and this is actually scientific consensus now. I’ve seen the Lineweaver–Burk charts and Southern blots confirming all of this.</p></blockquote> <p>Who ordered the Fucklesworth with anchovies?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367119&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yaD4t6zJnlh6bKv3CQWBQFwhAjS0Zs2z82bVzxOePt0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367119">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367120" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508898807"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The following papers were retracted by the journal vaccine, but published in another Journal</p> <p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=inbar+r%2C+weiss+r">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=inbar+r%2C+weiss+r</a></p> <p> Behavioral abnormalities in female mice following administration of aluminum adjuvants and the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine Gardasil</p> <p>Rotem InbarRonen WeissLucija TomljenovicMaria-Teresa ArangoYael DeriChristopher A. ShawJoab ChapmanMiri BlankYehuda Shoenfeld</p> <p>The title of this paper shows us, that scientific guidelines were violated, why do they test only female mice? </p> <p>The OECD guideline 452 on chronic toxicity testing claims to have at least 20 mice from each sex.</p> <p>In addition the authors thank the Dwoskin Family Foundation for support.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367120&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y2QuHUt_-FhwPPra1yfO6pMos_1vlYd6ZGD2ylDAL9A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WolfgangM (not verified)</span> on 24 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367120">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367121" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1508899060"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In that study Shaw reckoned that only female mice are affected by aluminium adjuvants (because Gardasil). This time he claimed that only male mice were affected (because autism). It is impressive.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367121&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9W_oLOlsPOzznf5uKl4jUPSPmzj0A8bCt_GJgiLrwew"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 24 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367121">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367122" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1509344239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/10/10/another-antivaccine-paper-bites-the-dust/#comment-472883"><i>Coming out on October 26 from Elsevier:</i></a></p> <p> Controversies in Vaccine Safety : A Critical Review<br /> Edited by Christopher A. Shaw , Edited by Claire Dwoskin , Edited by Lluis Lujan , Edited by Lucija Tomljenovic </p> <p>With contributions from Shoenfeld (on ASIA), Gherardi (on MMF), Exley, disgraced fraudster Mikovits, and Vinu Arumugham.</p> <p>No sign of this book-shaped object on the market, several days after publication date. <a href="https://www.elsevier.com/books/controversies-in-vaccine-safety/shaw/978-0-12-803254-1">"This book is currently unavailable"</a>.</p> <p>Is there any speculation among the fraternity about the cause of the delay?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367122&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2zuHNSDwXJ06Odr10rqgghruv451cCyPlEwLvDTCQVw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367122">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367123" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1509359613"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, until the evil machinations of pHarma are circumvented and the book becomes available, we can make do with the newly released "Vaccines: A Reappraisal" by Richard Moskowitz M.D.</p> <p>"Richard Moskowitz, MD, is a family physician who received his BA from Harvard, Phi Beta Kappa, his MD from New York University, and a US Steel Fellowship in Philosophy at the University of Colorado. He has been in private practice since 1967. After studying herbs, Japanese acupuncture, and other holistic modalities, he has specialized in homeopathic medicine since 1974, and has written four previous books and over a hundred articles on homeopathy, midwifery, natural healing, and the philosophy of medicine. He resides in Boston, Massachusetts."</p> <p>Sherry Tenpenny gives his book a "WOW!", and there are kudos from other luminaries like Barbara Loe Fisher and Stephanie "Fear And Loathing Over Glyphosate" Seneff.</p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Vaccines-Reappraisal-Richard-Moskowitz-ebook/dp/B06X9KXT69/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1509377332&amp;sr=8-3&amp;keywords=moskowitz">https://www.amazon.com/Vaccines-Reappraisal-Richard-Moskowitz-ebook/dp/…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367123&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rEfcQ-Q9_v2oItzsyoHYpNXhrKrSBaCDn5nBV6VA5_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 30 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367123">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367124" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1509370118"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Well, until the evil machinations of pHarma are circumvented and the book becomes available,</i></p> <p>Elsevier are quoted as been telling people that the pHarma-machination delay is indefinite. Perhaps the authors will have to circulate a Samizdat edition.<br /><a href="http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1607411#p1607411">http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1607411#p1607411</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367124&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uS5S4mNTRrw2ZRTWuzprUjtxDV6w65Bj-ThTs-MaoNo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367124">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1367125" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1509370378"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I had been hoping for a review from Brian Deer, since the last contribution to "Vaccine Controversies" was to have been by David Lewis... the sewerage-waste expert and Wakefield acolyte, whose main claim to fame was proclaiming that Deer <b>must</b> be a sockpuppet for Big Pharma (because no mere journalist could become so knowledgeable about the background to Wakefield's fraud).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1367125&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="g0N-t7XFe0OCdFK_Y0bYngVA7Fupt6lOfncIQXUfBtM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 30 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1367125">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/10/10/another-antivaccine-paper-bites-the-dust%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:15:24 +0000 oracknows 22639 at https://www.scienceblogs.com Torturing more mice in the name of antivaccine pseudoscience: PubPeer versus antivaxers https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence <span>Torturing more mice in the name of antivaccine pseudoscience: PubPeer versus antivaxers</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Last week, an antivaxer "challenged" me to look over <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417">a paper</a> purporting to show that aluminum adjuvants in vaccines cause inflammation of the brain and therefore contribute to autism, a paper that she would be "citing frequently." Being someone who lives by the motto, "be careful what you wish for," <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/21/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-2017-aluminum-edition/">I looked it over in detail</a>. Not surprisingly, my conclusion was that the experiments were poorly done using obsolete and not very quantitative methodology and that the results do not support the conclusions made by the authors. I was not alone in this conclusion. Skeptical Raptor was, if anything, even <a href="https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/aluminum-causes-autism-shaw-tomljenovic-vaccine/">harsher on the paper than I was</a>.</p> <!--more--><p>The <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417">paper in question</a> came out of the lab of Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic in the Department of Ophthalmology at the University of British Columbia. As I note every time I examine a paper by these two warriors for antivaccine pseudoscience, both have a long history of publishing antivaccine “research,” mainly falsely blaming the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines for autism and, well, just about any health problem children have and <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/">blaming Gardasil for premature ovarian failure</a> and all manner of woes <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2012/08/09/a-sad-premature-death-cynically-used-by-antivaccinationists-to-attack-gardasil/">up to and including death</a>. Shaw was even prominently featured in the rabidly antivaccine movie <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/11/18/anti-vaccine-propaganda-lands-in-new-yor/">The Greater Good</a>. Not surprisingly, they’ve <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/02/17/no-gardasil-does-not-cause-behavioral-problems/">had a paper retracted</a>, as well.</p> <p>Given the authors' history and a paper that I and others found completely consistent with that history of publishing bad science in the service of antivaccine views, you might reasonably ask: Why am I writing about it again? It turns out that I was indeed far too kind the first time around. You see, I didn't look at all the DNA gels and Western blot films closely enough. I confess that sometimes I don't, particularly when the images provided by the journal online are relatively low resolution. Fortunately, however, there are others with a much sharper eye for photos of DNA gels and films of Western blots than I am, and, if what these people are saying is correct, I rather suspect that Shaw and Tomljenovic might well be cruising for their second retracted paper. Before I explain why, it's necessary for me to briefly explain two things for nonscientists not familiar with the methodology used.</p> <p>In last week's post, I complained that the authors had basically ground up mouse brains and used semiquantitative PCR to measure the level of messenger RNA for each immune cytokine examined. There's no need for me to go into how this method is only roughly quantitative or how there are much better methods available now. <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/21/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-2017-aluminum-edition/">I did that last time</a>. What I do need to point out is that, after the PCR reaction is run, the PCR products (DNA fragments amplified by the PCR reaction) are separated by placing them in an agarose gel and running an electrical current through it. This gel electrophoresis works because DNA migrates towards the positive electrode and, once it solidifies, agarose forms a gel that separates the DNA fragments by size. The gel can then be stained with ethidium bromide, whose fluorescence allows visualization of the bands, which can be assessed for size and purity. Photos of the gel can be taken and subjected to densitometry to estimate how much DNA is in each band relative to the other bands.</p> <p>To measure protein, Western blots work a little differently. Basically isolated cell extracts or protein mixtures are subjected to polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (PAGE) with a denaturing agent (SDS). Again, like DNA, protein migrates towards the positive electrode, and the gel forms pores that impeded the process, allowing separation by size and charge. The proteins are then transferred to a membrane (the Western blot) and visualized by using primary antibodies to the desired protein, followed by a secondary antibody with some sort of label. In the old days, we often used radioactivity. These days, we mostly use chemiluminescence. Blots are then exposed to film or, more frequently today, to a phosphoimager plate, which provides a much larger linear range for detecting the chemiluminescence than old-fashioned film. Just like DNA gels, the bands can be quantified using densitometry. In both cases, it's very important not to "burn" (overexpose) the film, which pushes the band intensity out of the linear ranger) or to underexpose them (noise can cause problems). It's also important how the lines are drawn around the bands using the densitometry software and how the background is calculated. More modern software can do it fairly automatically, but there is almost always a need to tweak the outlines chosen, which is why I consider it important that whoever is doing the densitometry should be blinded to experimental group, as bias can be introduced in how the bands are traced.</p> <p>So why did I go through all this? Hang on, I'll get to it. First, however, I like to point out to our antivaccine "friends" that peer review doesn't end when a paper is published. Moreover, social media and the web have made it easier than ever to see what other scientists think of published papers. In particular, there is a website called <a href="https://pubpeer.com">PubPeer</a>, which represents itself as an "online journal club." More importantly, for our purposes, PubPeer is a site where a lot of geeky scientists with sharp eyes for anomalies in published figures discuss papers and figures that seem, well, not entirely kosher. It turns out that some scientists with sharp eyes have been <a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983">going over Shaw and Tomljenovic's paper</a>, and guess what? They've been finding stuff. In fact, they've been finding stuff that to me (and them) looks rather...suspicious.</p> <p>One, for instance, took figure 1C of the paper and adjusted the background and contrast to accentuate differences in tones:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1505914692638.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1505914692638-450x226.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="226" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11074" /></a></p> <p>It was <a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983#2">immediately noted:</a></p> <blockquote><ol><li>A clear and deliberate removal of the Male 3 Control TNF result. This isn't an unacknowledged splice, as there is no background pattern from a gel contiguous with either band, left or right.</li> <li>Removal of the left half of the Male 1 Control IFN-g. Dubious also about Male 3 Control IFN-g, as the contrast highlight shows boxing around the band.</li> <li>What appears like an unacknowledged splice in ACHE blot, between AI Animal 2, Control Animal 3</li> </ol><p>Comparing this representative blot to the densitometry accompanying it, they score from 5 independent experiments IFN-g fold change from control to AI, relative to actin, as on average 4.5, with an SEM ranging from ~2.7 to 6.5. This seems too good to be true.</p></blockquote> <p>Look at the band. It's the second from last band. It looks as though the band has been digitally removed. There is an obvious square there. The edges are clear. Now, this could be a JPEG compression artifact. Indeed, one of the commenters is very insistent about reminding everyone that compression artifacts can look like a square and fool the unwary into thinking that some sort of Photoshopping had occurred.. However, I do agree with another of the PubPeer discussants this is enough of a problem that the journal should demand the original blot.</p> <p>On this one, I'll give Shaw and Tomljenovic the benefit of the doubt. (Whether they deserve it or not, you can judge for yourself.) That might be a compression artifact. Other problems discovered in the gels are not so easily dismissed. For instance, there definitely appears to be the ol' duplicated and flipped gel bands trick going on in Figure 2A:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/09/RrLUlyk.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/RrLUlyk-450x296.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="296" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11075" /></a></p> <p>Spotting these takes a little bit of skill, but look for distinctive parts of bands and then look to see if they show up elsewhere. It's also necessary to realize that there could be multiple different exposures of the same band, such that the same band can appear more or less intense <em>and</em> mirror-imaged. You have to know what to look for, and I fear that some readers not familiar with looking at blots like these might not see the suspicious similarities, even when pointed out. Still, let's take a look. There are more examples, for instance, these two bands in Figure 4C:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1506251227792.jpg"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1506251227792-450x262.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="262" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11076" /></a></p> <p>And Figures 4B and 4D, where bubbles on the gels serve as markers:</p> <p><a href="/files/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1506305957384.png"><img src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/image-1506305957384-450x297.png" alt="" width="450" height="297" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11077" /></a></p> <p>You can look at the rest of the PubPeer images for yourself and decide if you agree that something fishy is going on here. I've seen enough that I think there is, as is <a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983#16">pointed out near the end</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Great to see such rapid progress being made: Band duplications firmly established for gels in Figs. 2 and 4. Perhaps we can add some RT-PCR from Fig. 1 too? In Fig. 2, seek out the band marked above that looks like a sailing boat with mast and forestay. Now look for it in Fig. 1A. And then perhaps check for any other duplications?</p></blockquote> <p>Others note that Shaw and Tomljenovic have engaged in a bit of self-plagiarism, too. Figure 1 in the 2017 paper is identical (and I do mean identical, except that the bars in the older paper are blue) to a paper they published in 2014. Basically, they threw a little primary data into one of their crappy review articles trying to blame "environment" (i.e., vaccines) for autism, this one <a href="http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/article/1368">published in 2014 in OA Autism</a>. Don't take my word for it. Both articles are open-access, and you can judge for yourself.</p> <p>Some <a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983#20">comments from PubPeer</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> As far as I can see figure 1 is identical in the two papers? But in the 2014 paper hisograns are described as means +/- SEM from three independent experiments and in 2017 as means +/- SEM of five independent experiments? <a href="http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/article/1368">http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/article/1368</a></p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983#21">And</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Brazen self-plagiarism of the open access 2014 paper’s Fig. 1 is a key find by the human commentator. Especially since it is not in PubMed (though it is Ref. 166 here). This means that they have used certain elements of a single gel four times in three years: Nice work if you can get it.</p> <p>Here is the direct link to 2014 Fig. 1</p> <p><a href="http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/images/html_figures/1368_346.png">http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/images/html_figures/1368_346.png</a></p> <p>The licence for the 2014 paper states “Creative Commons Attribution License (CC-BY)”. Unfortunately, the 2017 recycling of Fig. 1 is neither creative nor is it attributed.</p> <p>What this means is that Elsevier were misled regarding the copyright situation and the originality of the work. So this finding surely gives the 2017 publisher a get out of jail card. If they choose to play it, they can now unilaterally withdraw this embarrassing Anti-vaxxer concoction on these grounds alone.</p> <p>Don’t forget to archive the two papers for your records: They might disappear from the publishers’ web sites at some point.</p></blockquote> <p>And that's <em>still</em> not all. Let's take a visit to our scaly friend, Skeptical Raptor, where he notes that <a href="https://themadvirologist.blogspot.com/2017/09/does-recent-paper-by-shaw-really-show.html">The Mad Virologist</a> and the <a href="https://scientistabe.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/neurosciencesjunk-sciences-autopsy-of-a-flawed-study-of-aluminum-and-brain-inflammation-li-et-al-j-inorg-biochem-2017/">Blood-Brain Barrier Scientist</a> jointly analyzed the paper and found:</p> <blockquote><p> But there are six other key points that limit what conclusions can be drawn from this paper:</p> <ol><li>They selected genes based on old literature and ignored newer publications.</li> <li>The method for PCR quantification is imprecise and cannot be used as an absolute quantification of expression of the selected genes.</li> <li>They used inappropriate statistical tests that are more prone to giving significant results which is possibly why they were selected.</li> <li>Their dosing regime for the mice makes assumptions on the development of mice that are not correct.</li> <li>They gave the mice far more aluminum sooner than the vaccine schedule exposes children to.</li> <li>There are irregularities in both the semi-quantitative RT-PCR and Western blot data that strongly suggests that these images were fabricated. This is probably the most damning thing about the paper. If the data were manipulated and images fabricated, then the paper needs to be retracted and UBC needs to do an investigation into research misconduct by the Shaw lab.</li> </ol><p>Taken together, we cannot trust Shaw’s work here and if we were the people funding this work, we’d be incredibly ticked off because they just threw away money that could have done some good but was instead wasted frivolously. Maybe there’s a benign explanation for the irregularities that we’ve observed, but until these concerns are addressed this paper cannot be trusted.</p></blockquote> <p>I note that they go into even more detail about the problems with the images that have led me (and others) to be suspicious of image manipulation, concluding:</p> <blockquote><p> These are some serious concerns that raise the credibility of this study and can only be addressed by providing a full-resolution (300 dpi) of the original blots (X-ray films or the original picture file generated by the gel acquisition camera).</p> <p>There has been a lot of chatter on PubPeer discussing this paper and many duplicated bands and other irregularities have been identified by the users there. If anyone is unsure of how accurate the results are, we strongly suggest looking at what has been identified on PubPeer as it suggests that the results are not entirely accurate and until the original gels and Western blots have been provided, it looks like the results were manufactured in Photoshop.</p></blockquote> <p>I agree. Oh, and I agree with their criticism of the use of statistics. I even brought up their failure to control for multiple comparisons, but Shaw and Tomljenovic also used a test that is appropriate for a normal distribution when their data obviously did not follow a normal distribution.</p> <p>So, my dear readers, it turns out that Orac, as Insolent as he can be when slapping down bad science by antivaxers, was not nearly Insolent enough in this case. Mea culpa. I should have known better, given Shaw and Tomljenovic's history. Not only do we have poorly done and analyzed experiments, but we also have self-plagiarism and, quite possibly, scientific fraud. Only releasing the full resolution original images from the original experiments (which are now probably four years old) can put these questions to rest.</p> <p>Science matters. I hate to see it abused like this, particularly when experimental animals are killed in the service of such awful science.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Wed, 09/27/2017 - 01:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism" hreflang="en">autism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/biology" hreflang="en">biology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/aluminum" hreflang="en">aluminum</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/christopher-shaw" hreflang="en">Christopher Shaw</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/lucija-tomljenovic" hreflang="en">Lucija Tomljenovic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/mouse" hreflang="en">mouse</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pubpeer" hreflang="en">PubPeer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/biology" hreflang="en">biology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/brain-and-behavior" hreflang="en">Brain and Behavior</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366326" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506495504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, for all we know now, they may have never touched a mouse, but just copied their gels together from something they found on the web. This looks really bad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366326&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PYkTZKYEDuGEZwnpNVMeVYGD-LAQtKXkV_Hke65rr9Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Catherina (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366326">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366327" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506495835"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh man. I used to check images like these for a journal, and this, uh, looks suspicious. I can't believe no one queried these images before publication.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366327&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Uh6EzfBxgk1iYuBScpzsoqk5LfCNPnjTem3wEVx7Ysc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Heidi_storage (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366327">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366328" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506499230"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So not only are the methods and statistical analysis flawed but there might be evidence for outright fraud (sounds like another retracted paper we all know). Yet places like the National Vaccine (Mis)Information Archive are spreading this as definitive evidence.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366328&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j9jxV15T0Puo53LxvYKq6Izen2wgeUJbVmu09pgtRto"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366328">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366329" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506499997"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A. If there was manipulation of the images, the university should respond.</p> <p>B. Shaw, Meehan - is there any link between ophthalmology and being anti vaccine? I expect that's unfair to most ophthalmologists, but wonder.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366329&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hyCI4NW6Hoy3mSpBw0AkYH1_KxY7BacwGdwR_hU1JQk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366329">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366330" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506500565"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac writes,</p> <p>Not only do we have poorly done and analyzed experiments, but we also have self-plagiarism and, quite possibly, scientific fraud.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>This is, quite possibly, Orac's best re-review! </p> <p>In summary, when discovered and placed in the public domain, circumstantial evidence (e.g., questionable DNA gels and Western blot films) of scientistic fraud can damage or end the careers of researchers who, without a doubt, have been shown to engage in it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366330&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gEu5AZBs9cuEpxVdF8Q1yPEldzL1tOla27AFZiT7z84"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366330">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366331" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506512897"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's my understanding that Shaw is a tenured full professor at UBC. It's also my understanding that one of the grounds for revoking tenure is academic fraud.</p> <p>Just sayin"...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366331&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="aVUFez4k0-kwYIITbQcPD77n3ZOKDTuRyNnFhmWKAeg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366331">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366332" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506515728"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It’s my understanding that Shaw is a tenured full professor at UBC. It’s also my understanding that one of the grounds for revoking tenure is academic fraud.</p></blockquote> <p>It tends to get pinned on the most junior researcher. (I note that Yongling Li seems to have departed Shaw's group, as well.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366332&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rABWapdx-pBAFqQi4TxpL4ExT5okC9xuNJwRk_nLWMM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366332">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366333" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506516677"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> Shaw, Meehan – is there any link between ophthalmology and being anti vaccine? I expect that’s unfair to most ophthalmologists, but wonder.</p></blockquote> <p>I don't know who Meehan is, but Shaw does not have an MD and is in no respects an ophthalmologist. Anyway, antivaccinosis can strike indiscriminately. For instance: pediatrics (Sears, Mendelsohn), Gastoenterology (Wakefield), Neurosurgery (Blaylock), Pathology (Sin Hang Lee).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366333&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z4XQPSbonQyF6NCUCPdaYPArPr95wfHf4-2Parf2tq8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366333">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366334" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506516724"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It tends to get pinned on the most junior researcher.</p></blockquote> <p>One would think that a succession of junior researchers pinned with academic fraud after having collaborated with the same senior researcher would be a great big red flag for any junior researcher who actually wants to have a future in the field.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366334&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oVXMeDHjACmXzEQVFPvo0D-MyCCph2pzoPLxEZHhEHQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jenora Feuer (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366334">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366335" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506518111"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Given Shaw's research interests, I'm tempted to think that perhaps he was bestowed upon the Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences department by means of a lateral transfer from another department that didn't want to keep him.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366335&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9BHr3UgInLkJmz3GWF329mE-5rI0lJEkZ4hIB6udEl0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366335">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366336" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506519030"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When it comes to poor quality images, particularly when compression artifacts are quite apparent, I'm perfectly happy to wish a pox on both houses - the authors for submitting crap or failing to take the publisher to task for wrecking that which was good when submitted, and the publisher for doing the latter or failing to take the author to task for submitting crap. I'da thunk someone in a dep't with "Visual Sciences" in the name might be a little hyper-vigilant regarding such matters.</p> <p>We seem to have made a transition from the days when "white space" was regarded as sacred and actual useful content profane to an age of just plain incompetence and/or indifference.</p> <p>While poor images are set in stone (or a polymer coating a sheet of aluminum) for printed publications, there is simply no excuse for allowing them to persist in electronic publications. Decent digital images can make rather large files, but I doubt that many journal articles are delivered via dial-up.</p> <p>Of course fabulous images don't make up for poor research.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366336&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Wepv5OAwyS14zClf7bu0iOXjXL6KBnjTb-Lp-gE68F0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366336">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366337" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506519140"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"2.The method for PCR quantification is imprecise and cannot be used as an absolute quantification of expression of the selected genes."</p> <p>That is the first thing I thought. 20 years ago, there might be a reason for doing gels (heck, 10 years ago I was doing syber green in an academic lab, because probes were too expensive but gels are too imprecise), but these days, qRT-PCR machines have been around for a long time, and probes are absurdly cheap ($1.20 a reaction for a basic Taqman). Most if not all of those genes are off-the-shelf assays.</p> <p>Not that I'd trust these fooks to do qRT-PCR correctly.</p> <p>Or run a negative control. If they did it in this paper, they didn't mention it.</p> <p>Or use actin as a housekeeper, ffs.</p> <p>And using a paired T-test for so dizam many comparisons.</p> <p>Yeah, lousy paper even from just skimming it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366337&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qDC0XBOn5qz6xTuA-1E0LRx9uLkrPj7OB_Z6QOhIhEY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roadstergal (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366337">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366338" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506519182"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I should have said "when compression artifacts are detrimental" instead of "... apparent" - some a just ugly but don't mask important content.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366338&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tpq-z_5jEXecH2v7hpRRMkKajuzcaoF12B4zmkoYilo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366338">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366339" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506522102"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac,</p> <p>Thanks</p> <p>Just plain thanks for all you do</p> <p>R</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366339&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2DdFVwfJpwZck6ylSd86mwcecZjBcv4cerpkisOIc5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Blues (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366339">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366340" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506523907"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>(I note that Yongling Li seems to have departed Shaw’s group, as well.) </p></blockquote> <p>Yongling Li coauthored the 2013 paper with behavioural results for the same mice, but wasn't involved in the 2014 "OA Autism" paper. OTOH, Dan Li was coauthor in 2014 and 2017... also <i>yet another</i> review-shaped self-plagiarism:<br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25428645">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25428645</a><br /> "Are there negative CNS impacts of aluminum adjuvants used in vaccines and immunotherapy?"<br /> [Contains Figure 1 <b>again</b>]</p> <p>The Acknowledgements could be read as a CYA positioning of the lab staff to take any blame:</p> <blockquote><p>We are also grateful to Agripina Suarez and other laboratory members for their assistance.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366340&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BsLN43QWsphWqOe3qeWzTxHxs689WvIwHXDef_AqqMY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366340">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366341" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506525404"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's on Researchgate if anyone wants to quantify the degree of self-plagiarism:<br /><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268880246_Are_there_negative_CNS_impacts_of_aluminum_adjuvants_used_in_vaccines_and_immunotherapy">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268880246_Are_there_negative_C…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366341&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="O3jeYDkPlSLsuAHYdVYwhGir8Hdrb5DgFdX6GqL1OR0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366341">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366342" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506526562"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That band removed is not a compression artefact. Compression artefacts don't quite look like that. That is a clear case of photoshop. Photoshopping gels bands should lead to immediate retraction. Let's see what the journal editor does.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366342&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gsEGxKFlT9lMkcQyczPNoPzBElwuFX2v0Xmvwf09MoE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366342">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366343" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506526700"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But what gets me is why bother with all the copying and pasting of bands. If they were going to just make it up, they could go the Judy Mikovits approach and just rename the bands as they wished.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366343&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LqQSpvGJmN0MxGN4wsRVglMVN3epeHcuzF53KWNuf0s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366343">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366344" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506529105"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In response to T. Bruce: Dr. Meehan is an Oklahoma doc trained in ophthalmology whose antivax views got taken down here:</p> <p><a href="https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/jim-meehan-anti-vaccine-rant-examining-claims/">https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/jim-meehan-anti…</a></p> <p>Let's not forget the most prominent ophthalmologist who's encouraged antivax idiocy - Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366344&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5D_x9OlKTBTy8kNvxOLWNsgUWAf9DmglEpF1m6chCwo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366344">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366345" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506530319"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wondered the same thing, Chris. Maybe they did both?</p> <p>The Photoshop is easy to see (once you start to look for it), but other that trying to replicate the study, how could you prove or disprove something like renaming (or, to call it what it is, flat out lying)?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366345&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="97l_f4AUrOFDfBMa61D2wfpk1CWbyQ06E2iquTSWrvA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366345">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366346" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506531677"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm glad to know I wasn't imagining things when I looked at the bands and thought, "They look like the same sample to me."</p> <p>Orac is too kind when he calls this science. This isn't science. It's science fiction.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366346&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LYgYIHXs6j9DikbA2RPup343Cm3049Got94TPvUe0Zg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366346">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366347" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506533415"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Off topic, so you can delete this when you see it, but I know you will be most pleased with this news from Australia:</p> <p>"Fake wellness blogger Belle Gibson has been ordered to pay a fine of $410,000 after being found guilty of misleading and deceptive conduct earlier this year.</p> <p>The Federal Court in Melbourne found she misled her readers when she claimed her brain cancer was cured through alternative therapies and nutrition.</p> <p>It was later revealed she never had the disease."</p> <p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-28/disgraced-wellness-blogger-belle-gibson-fined/8995500">http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-28/disgraced-wellness-blogger-belle-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366347&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J0S-r_sei2LzWemOk6c2ch6mQjU8UcDEt30asT8zfLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Green Eagle (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366347">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366348" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506534855"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I wondered the same thing, Chris. Maybe they did both?</p> <p>The Photoshop is easy to see (once you start to look for it), but other that trying to replicate the study, how could you prove or disprove something like renaming (or, to call it what it is, flat out lying)?</p></blockquote> <p>Well it was all made up, but given how easy detecting photoshopping of gels has become, why risk that. I suppose if you are inventing stuff already, you don't think of these things.</p> <p>The renaming of lanes is in fact really hard to work out unless you have expertise with those specific genes/proteins. Mikovits' paper didn't pass the smell test when I read it, but it was really hard to put your finger on where the fraud was. A clear indication of a problem was that numbers of individuals in the paper and the supplementary information didn't match, and didn't match with Judy's public statements, but what did that mean? </p> <p>It was only when Judy decided to use the same photo in a conference presentation with different labels on the lanes that it became obvious the sort of chicanery in operation and that the photo in the paper wasn't what they claimed it was. In the end it turned out that the blot was something else again and had been repurposed twice.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366348&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YYMGICpUrxThG64lxA0R8mUnjh9SFK8RRRoTN6Y-IE8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366348">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366349" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506537770"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Meehan is an anti-vaccine loon who deserves to lose his medical license for the voluminous amount of dangerous stupid he spews. On the bright side, he overstepped his big mouth last year attacking physicians who promote vaccines and Meehan now has a libel case pending against him brought by a physician he slandered.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366349&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oFKRFhlpSPGc8TvmLj1mdYfVTGMkpFyShLIzbGMbmMo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366349">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366350" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506548686"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Shaw et al made stuff up about their control mice, too. In Table 1 they state that control mice received their saline injections on Days 3, 5, 6, 10, 12, 17 -- same as the Al-exposed group. The trouble is that in Table 2 of the earlier 2013 report of the same experiment, the controls only received five injections, on 2, 4,, 9, 11, 16.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366350&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NmPYuDzHL-AXIBh7pWf5i0z-lMzF4FHtWzoWoZKG0kQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366350">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366351" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506557211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>In Table 1 they state that control mice received their saline injections on Days 3, 5, 6, 10, 12, 17 — same as the Al-exposed group. The trouble is that in Table 2 of the earlier 2013 report of the same experiment, the controls only received five injections, on 2, 4,, 9, 11, 16.</p></blockquote> <p>What is a day between friends?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366351&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v6KU3FyFL-Myn2EcuuO7d0UhqS27CG4kPB4U23QYQxs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366351">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366352" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506557302"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh and Dan of Vaccine Papers tells me Shaw is going to retract the paper. </p> <p>Perhaps it has got too embarrassing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366352&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ETbKtLnReiqdEK2h8zlGtV7YRsQDiL8IlJ7_uErJmos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Preston (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366352">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366353" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506558665"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Elsevier management were already talking to the journal editors about minimising damage to their reputation, so one way or the other, the paper will not be around for long,</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366353&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_EoTpUUyiVufLis0RKJ0VptWQoSk9XytTb50zYCfBCs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366353">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366354" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506561811"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Even without the fakery it was a crap paper.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366354&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="22s2xiVmz3zTJ9rHSAWroAxyb1tJRuYgd4duWIUVCPA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366354">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366355" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506572629"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It just doesn't stop. In the original 2013 description:</p> <blockquote><p>The general development of mice was monitored by systematic recording of their weights from week 1 till the time of sacrifice <b>(week 34)</b>.</p></blockquote> <p>In the 2017 account:</p> <blockquote><p>At <b>16 weeks</b> of age the mice were euthanized and the brain tissues were collected for gene expression profiling experiments.</p></blockquote> <p>If you don't know whether your mice were 16 weeks or 34 weeks old when you killed them, it could be time to change careers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366355&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xyWHqazHksUhw2kTAKD0yQQd-7G8NDTNEkpk5j8rAbo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366355">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366356" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506580380"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'd like to think that maybe not as many mice were needlessly killed for Shaw's current paper, but more likely they killed at least as many as stated in the paper before deciding to fake it all up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366356&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZDd8Rky4CJPDzEkQCxXV_jkGk7gFHDJiEwS5Fke8kbI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366356">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366357" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506599494"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ #28 Chris Preston</p> <blockquote><p>Oh and Dan of Vaccine Papers tells me Shaw is going to retract the paper. </p></blockquote> <p>One can only hope a withdrawn publication full of falsified data and even self-plagiarising still counts as fraud.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366357&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-OCum51z36snUCCQGJ-1ZXIfe8kC51HhgcI9SyrsOn8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366357">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366358" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506601746"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>If you don’t know whether your mice were 16 weeks or 34 weeks old when you killed them, it could be time to change careers.</p></blockquote> <p>Well, maybe they went the whole hog fraud-wise, and they didn't even use let alone kill mice in the first place, but just made things up over a few beers kale smoothies or so...</p> <p>Anyway, if this is a fraud (and so far, it sure smells like one), it once again emphasizes the sheer stupidity of antivaccine people, even the ones with a sort of higher education. Did they <i>really</i> think that they would get this kind of clumsy mess past the science crowd unnoticed? And about this particular subject? They may as well put on bullseye pants and hand out shotguns...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366358&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9agN3QYQpTsTqOpZLHjrn5W1C9gjTboBuZzw28hvJ30"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366358">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366359" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506602462"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Once again a study shows that vaccines improve health:</p> <p>Contact: CDC Media Relations<br /> (404) 639-3286</p> <p>New study shows Tdap vaccination during pregnancy can prevent whooping cough in babies Less than half of pregnant women in the United States take advantage of vaccination<br /> A new CDC study published today in Clinical Infectious Diseases reported that vaccination with whooping cough vaccine, Tdap, during the third trimester of pregnancy prevented more than three out of four (78 percent) cases of whooping cough (also known as pertussis) in babies younger than two months. However, only 49 percent of pregnant women who delivered between fall 2015 and spring 2016 received the vaccine. CDC recommends women get Tdap during each pregnancy to provide critical short-term protection to babies when they are most at risk for this life-threatening illness.<br /> The study used data from 2011 through 2014 on babies younger than two months from six states. It found that mothers whose babies had whooping cough were less likely to have received Tdap during pregnancy. The study reported that, in addition to being 78 percent effective at preventing whooping cough, Tdap vaccination during the third trimester was 90 percent effective at preventing serious cases of whooping cough that require hospitalization.<br /> “Women have such a great opportunity to help protect their babies before they enter the world by getting Tdap vaccine while pregnant,” said Nancy Messonnier, M.D., director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “This study highlights how babies can benefit when their mothers get the vaccine and reinforces CDC’s recommendation for women to get Tdap vaccine in the third trimester of each pregnancy.”<br /> Read More Here</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366359&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nX391yfqohI6a-LaPvPZY7fxhekmY3fIY9fETHvq9Gk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366359">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366360" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506606442"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac is correct. The paper was a fraud.</p> <p>Of course, there should be an investigation ASAP.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366360&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oDLdjszXQs5d6_dI2cqaYpEKvInIZhmqrD0YVeyyzKo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366360">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366361" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506611914"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't believe anyone actually takes anything written by Shaw and Tomljenovic seriously anymore.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366361&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ejb3ME5Vj4XAJqQZJSuA-oB6F-n-Zp9eVew7iVI0Unc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 28 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366361">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366362" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506676634"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>VP@36, That is a laudable admission. Will you now scrutinise Shaw et al.'s other studies and consider the criticism leveled at those?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366362&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MJ-B40xJczr6R7YvJoIqmUxPT98HXgPNEgsIQlDBb_s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 29 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366362">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366363" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506763200"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In April 2016 the 10th Int.Congress on Autoimmunity took place in Leipzig -Germany.</p> <p><a href="http://autoimmunity.kenes.com/2016#.Wc-yO9FpGM8">http://autoimmunity.kenes.com/2016#.Wc-yO9FpGM8</a></p> <p>Within this event the 4th International Symposium on Vaccines took place- sponsored by the antii-vaccine Dwoskin-Family Foundation and their CMSRI -"research" Institute.</p> <p>The programm of this symposium can be found here</p> <p><a href="http://autoimmunity.kenes.com/Documents/4th%20International%20Symposium%20on%20Vaccines%20-%20program%20final.pdf">http://autoimmunity.kenes.com/Documents/4th%20International%20Symposium…</a></p> <p>Chaired by C Dwoskin and Chris Exley (The Aluminium "expert" ) they also had a panel discussion with Lucia Tomljenovic and C Exley with the following questions:</p> <p>"1.Why do you think that the authorities are trying to hide the truth?<br /> 2.What is the objective evidence that HPV vaccination is not justified?<br /> 3.What do you think, are the mechanisms by which vaccine can induce autoimmunity?"</p> <p>So all authorities on this globe are hiding the truth- such wording is typical for any conspiracy theory in this case it is the anti-vaccine movement including their fraudulent "publications"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366363&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jmges0eZg4kQnEAqmh88bsxWRBL-kLVN-unnECyI6mg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">WolfgangM (not verified)</span> on 30 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366363">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366364" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506867765"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Will you now scrutinise Shaw et al.’s other studies and consider the criticism leveled at those?</i></p> <p>In particular, his two 2014 publications -- in OA Autism and Immunotherapy -- which used the same Figure 1 with all its problematic features (such as the statistical absurdity of adding standard-error bars and applying t-tests to samples involving only <b>three measurements</b>). Do you find them convincing? Would you include them in the Vaccine Papers archives? Would you advise Shaw to retract them?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366364&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KAPgMVrvGgwN6Cgf0ytERszHUrOsjucmj3IPztoGneE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 01 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366364">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366365" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506868460"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>In April 2016 the 10th Int.Congress on Autoimmunity took place in Leipzig -Germany.</i></p> <p>And Mark Geier was there, having abandoned his mercury / chelation grift in order to climb aboard the aluminium scamwagon. I would have thought that the other panelists would have felt slightly abashed to be sharing the podium with such an out-and-out charlatan, but evidently one must abandon all sense of shame to batten onto Dwoskin money.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366365&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pnL_9N9Tidyib3-6sz3o-OHQL5K4eBoExnIdNth2ZZM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 01 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366365">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366366" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507425052"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just received an email:<br /> "The paper by Shaw and co-workers is being retracted jointly by the authors and the editor.</p> <p>John Dawson, JIB Editor"</p> <p>Pleased it'll be retracted; frankly gutted it was ever published...<br /> Cheers!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366366&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="52-ZBvpeEUMIg8KbEarnW8kMJ-JkaorEombJXUEmMKw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Magdalen (not verified)</span> on 07 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366366">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366367" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507426511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The Orbital Laser Cannon of Pubpeer Correction is firm but fair.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366367&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="b7MMIaBUiZ27SL4Kg14lrLzskl8SiMBNbu-excpOI-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 07 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366367">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366368" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507522637"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#42 Magdalen -<br /> Thanks.<br /> I 1st saw news of the retraction via RtAVM:<br /><a href="https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM/posts/1715728805163788">https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM/posts/1715728805163788</a><br /> who cited a guest post by Smut Clyde at Leonid Schneider's blog:<br /><a href="https://forbetterscience.com/2017/09/29/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-antivax-paper-by-smut-clyde/">https://forbetterscience.com/2017/09/29/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-antivax…</a><br /> .<br /><i>At the very bottom is this update:<br /> Update 8.10.2017. The Editor-in-Chief John Dawson wrote me back, with this signed one-liner (no “Dear Dr Schneider”, or “Hi Leonid”):<br /> - <b>“The paper by Shaw and co-workers is being retracted jointly by the authors and the editor.<br /> — John Dawson, JIB Editor”</b>"</i><br /> .<br /> Now the question remains as to what is going to happen to the authors of this scam. I predict UBC will defend their right to publish alternative facts.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366368&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wlOTNc9OjxUNKyk8dh1D_ES0nu0rsTCDEvARCafaoQc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Reality (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366368">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366369" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507532601"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good news on the retraction and here is hoping a certain anti vac tenured pseudoscientist at ubc gets sacked</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366369&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="72MnJShPXwPx7JJ-Fn3fJc4gQR2HLt4tbldyNEBWF4k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366369">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366370" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507532678"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I wonder how they will explain this particular retraction.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366370&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZxagUY5f7cQdQcqMD0sQzjtfNJFIykVJ8cWs9pv1xLE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366370">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366371" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507541603"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It is gratifying to see that Clare Dwoskin et al. are getting exactly what they paid for. Although it's a shame that benefactors would rather fund sloppy, fraudulent science than bestow their largesse on worthy autism causes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366371&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IIfB642Q0IpLluS6MM9JJQhZFyo5trsOd_CFwn7m-3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366371">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366372" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507546223"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Per RW: "We immediately did our own analysis. Indeed, some images have been altered. How that happened, we don’t know."</p> <p>Don't worry, Christopher, you'll "figure it out" in short order. And republish in OMICS or something.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366372&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gVONVvub6lujoEtUxjYWkhuXAqET1yAsS1Cb7DB4wFc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366372">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366373" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507547877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Someone here said the post-doc would be thrown under-the-bus:</p> <blockquote><p>Shaw said that first author Dan Li, a former postdoc who performed the molecular biology and gene expression analysis for the study, has agreed to the retraction but not yet offered an official explanation about the data. Shaw told us:</p> <p>"She denied that anything had been manipulated, or that anything was amiss".</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://retractionwatch.com/2017/10/09/journal-retract-paper-called-anti-vaccine-pseudoscience/">http://retractionwatch.com/2017/10/09/journal-retract-paper-called-anti…</a></p> <p>Worth the read as Shaw's Pollyanna routine is maddening.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366373&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="taodDDAlhHPbYAnxoVVGsKQ1roiVU2tlOhttDLNhnF4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366373">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366374" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507548559"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It would be xmas come early if it turned out Dan Li absconded with the original data (that wasn't fraudulent) to CYA for the two studies that were published with fraudulent data by Shaw and Tomljenovic.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366374&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="v1LXl3kaX5tl9ViJH_8E6znVhm8W5Cp4YFwIjst4CTs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Science Mom (not verified)</span> on 09 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366374">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366375" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507704303"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I didn't know where to put this.<br /><a href="http://www.cracked.com/article_25057_6-conspiracy-theorists-who-got-owned-in-hilarious-ways.html">http://www.cracked.com/article_25057_6-conspiracy-theorists-who-got-own…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366375&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N3VZINpQwBbmfjoCxdNOLTgL_CiV3cCySwMyU9RAv1o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 11 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366375">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 05:00:40 +0000 oracknows 22631 at https://www.scienceblogs.com Torturing more mice in the name of antivaccine pseudoscience, 2017 aluminum edition https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/21/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-2017-aluminum-edition <span>Torturing more mice in the name of antivaccine pseudoscience, 2017 aluminum edition</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><div class="featured-image"><img alt="" class="attachment-post-thumbnail size-post-thumbnail wp-post-image" data-entity-type="" data-entity-uuid="" height="344" sizes="(max-width: 590px) 100vw, 590px" src="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2016/11/Mousetorture-590x344.jpg" width="590" /><div class="caption" style="width:590px;"> </div> <div class="caption" style="width:590px;">"Why, oh, why do I have to die in the cause of such crappy science?"</div> </div> <p>For antivaxers, aluminum is the new mercury.</p> <p>Let me explain, for the benefit of those not familiar with the antivaccine movement. For antivaxers, it is, first and foremost, always about the vaccines. Always. Whatever the chronic health issue in children, vaccines must have done it. Autism? It’s the vaccines. Sudden infant death syndrome? Vaccines, of course. Autoimmune diseases? Obviously it must be the vaccines causing it. Obesity, diabetes, ADHD? Come on, you know the answer!</p> <p>Because antivaxers will never let go of their obsession with vaccines as The One True Cause Of All Childhood Health Problems, the explanation for how vaccines supposedly cause all this harm are ever morphing in response to disconfirming evidence. Here’s an example. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, antivaxers in the US (as opposed to in the UK, where the MMR vaccine was the bogeyman) focused on mercury in vaccines as the cause of autism. That’s because many childhood vaccines contained thimerosal, a preservative that contains mercury. In an overly cautious bit of worshiping at the altar of the precautionary principle, in 1999 the CDC recommended removing the thimerosal from childhood vaccines, and as a result it was removed from most vaccines by the end of 2001. (Some flu vaccines continued to contain thimerosal for years after that, but no other childhood vaccine did, and these days it’s uncommon for thimerosal-containing vaccines of any kind.)</p> <p>More importantly, the removal of thimerosal from childhood vaccines provided a natural experiment to test the hypothesis that mercury causes or predisposes to autism. After all, if mercury in vaccines caused autism, the near-complete removal of that mercury from childhood vaccines in a short period of time should have resulted in a decline in autism prevalence beginning a few years after the removal. Guess what happened? Autism prevalence didn’t decline. It continued to rise. To scientists, this observation was a highly convincing falsification of the hypothesis through a convenient natural experiment, although those who belong to the strain of antivaccine movement sometimes referred to as the mercury militia still flog mercury as a cause of autism even now. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is perhaps the most famous mercury militia member, although of late he’s been sounding more and more like a run-of-the-mill antivaxer.</p> <p>Which brings us to aluminum.</p> <p>With mercury in vaccines pretty definitively eliminated as The One True Cause Of Autism, antivaxers started looking for other ingredients to blame for autism because, as I said before, it’s first, foremost, and always all about the vaccines. So naturally they shifted their attention to the aluminum adjuvants in many vaccines. Adjuvants are compounds added to vaccine in order to boost the immune response to the antigen used, and aluminum salts <a href="https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM/posts/10152027115158831">have been used</a> as <a href="http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccine-ingredients#aluminium">effective adjuvants</a> for <a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html">many years now</a> and <a href="http://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients/aluminum">have an excellent safety record</a>. None of that has stopped antivaxers from trying to make aluminum the new mercury by blaming aluminum-containing vaccines for autism. I was reminded by this earlier this week when my e-mail was flooded with messages about new study being <a href="https://medium.com/@jbhandley/new-canadian-study-autism-aluminum-adjuvant-link-corroborated-330e947f5f62" rel="nofollow">flogged by antivaxers</a> in spectacularly ignorant ways, including three—yes, three—identical messages from a certain antivaxer with a severe case of Dunning-Kruger and delusions of grandeur basically challenging me to review this study and assuring me that antivaxers would be citing it for a long time. Well, whenever I receive messages like that, particularly annoying repetition, my answer is: Be very careful what you wish for.</p> <p>Also: Challenge accepted.</p> <p>Which brings us to the study itself. It’s by antivaccine “researchers” whose <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/11/18/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience/">previous studies</a> and <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/12/08/and-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-decr/">review articles</a> I’ve <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/02/17/no-gardasil-does-not-cause-behavioral-problems/">discussed before</a>. Yes, I’m referring to Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic in the Department of Ophthalmology at the University of British Columbia. Both have a long history of publishing antivaccine “research,” mainly falsely blaming the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines for autism and, well, just about any health problem children have and <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/">blaming Gardasil for premature ovarian failure</a> and all manner of woes <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2012/08/09/a-sad-premature-death-cynically-used-by-antivaccinationists-to-attack-gardasil/">up to and including death</a>. Shaw was even prominently featured in the rabidly antivaccine movie <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/11/18/anti-vaccine-propaganda-lands-in-new-yor/">The Greater Good</a>. Not surprisingly, they’ve <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2016/02/17/no-gardasil-does-not-cause-behavioral-problems/">had a paper retracted</a>, as well..</p> <p>This time around, they’ve gone back to their old stomping grounds, the <em>Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry</em>, and, along with two other co-authors, published <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417#">Subcutaneous injections of aluminum at vaccine adjuvant levels activate innate immune genes in mouse brain that are homologous with biomarkers of autism</a>. It’s where they published review article in 2011 <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/12/08/and-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-decr/">full of antivaccine misinformation and distortions</a>. So, given Shaw and Tomljenovic’s history, it is not unreasonable to be suspicious of this study as well. But, hey, you never know. Maybe it’s a good study that sheds light on an important aspect of the pathogenesis of autism…Ah, who’m I kidding? It’s nothing of the sort. It’s yet another study designed to imply that aluminum adjuvants cause autism.</p> <p>Before we look at the study itself, specifically the experiments included in it, let’s consider the hypothesis being tested, because experiments in any study should be directed at falsifying the hypothesis. Unfortunately, there is no clear statement of hypothesis where it belongs, namely in the introduction. Instead, what we get is this:</p> <blockquote><p>Given that infants worldwide are regularly exposed to Al adjuvants through routine pediatric vaccinations, it seemed warranted to reassess the neurotoxicity of Al in order to determine whether Al may be considered as one of the potential environmental triggers involved in ASD.</p> <p>In order to unveil the possible causal relationship between behavioral abnormalities associated with autism and Al exposure, we initially injected the Al adjuvant in multiple doses (mimicking the routine pediatric vaccine schedule) to neonatal CD-1 mice of both sexes.</p> </blockquote> <p>This is basically a fishing expedition in which the only real hypothesis is that “aluminum in vaccines is bad and causes bad immune system things to happen in the brain.” “Fishing expeditions” in science are studies in which the hypothesis is not clear and the investigators are looking for some sort of effect that they suspect they will find. In fairness, fishing expeditions are not a bad thing in and of themselves—indeed, they are often a necessary first step in many areas of research—but they are hypothesis-generating, not hypothesis confirming. After all, there isn’t a clear hypothesis to test; otherwise it wouldn’t be a fishing expedition. The point is that this study does not confirm or refute any hypothesis, much less provide any sort of slam-dunk evidence that aluminum adjuvants cause autism.</p> <p>Moving along, I note that this is a mouse experiment, and somehow antivaxers are selling this as compelling evidence that vaccines cause autism through their aluminum adjuvants causing an inflammatory reaction in the brain. Now, seriously. Mouse models can be useful for a lot of things, but, viewed critcally, for the most part autism is not really one of them. After all, autism is a human neurodevelopmental disorder diagnosed entirely by behavioral changes, and correlating mouse behavior with human behavior is very problematic. Indeed, correlating the behavior of any animal, even a primate, with human behavior is fraught with problems. Basically, there is no well-accepted single animal model of autism, and autism research has been littered with mouse models of autism that were found to be very much wanting. (<a href="http://photoninthedarkness.blogspot.com/2005/07/dr-hornigs-autistic-mice_29.html">“Rain mouse,” anyone?</a>) Basically, despite the <a href="https://spectrumnews.org/opinion/viewpoint/promises-and-limitations-of-mouse-models-of-autism/">existence of many mouse strains</a> touted to be relevant to autism, almost none of them are truly relevant because:</p> <blockquote><p>A good animal model satisfies three fundamental criteria. The first, called face validity, requires sufficient similarities between the phenotype of the mice and symptoms of the human disorder. The second, called construct validity, is achieved if the biological cause of the human disease is replicated in the mouse — for example, when an autism-associated gene is mutated in mice. Finally, a mouse model has predictive validity if treatments improve both the human symptoms of the disorder and the mouse phenotype.</p> <p>Diagnosis of autism is purely behavioral and requires clearly defined symptoms in each of three core categories: abnormal social interactions, impaired communication and repetitive behavior. One of the challenges in studying mouse models is determining which behaviors from the mouse repertoire could be considered analogous to these symptoms.</p> </blockquote> <p>And:</p> <blockquote><p>So far, very few of these mouse models display behavioral phenotypes relevant to all three core domains of autism. What’s more, in some cases, physical problems such as poor general health following seizures, or low exploratory activity, produce false positives that prevent the interpretation of more complex, autism-relevant phenotypes.</p> </blockquote> <p>Pay particular attention to the part about construct validity. The assumption behind this study is that immune changes in the brain of mice will be relevant to immune activation in the brains of autistic humans. That is an assumption that hasn’t yet been confirmed with sufficient rigor to view this study’s results as any sort of compelling evidence that aluminum adjuvants cause autism. Yes, the authors include this important-looking diagram describing how they think immune system activation causes autism (click to embiggen):</p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/files/2017/09/InflammationAutism.jpg"><img alt="" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11064" data-entity-type="" data-entity-uuid="" height="184" sizes="(max-width: 450px) 100vw, 450px" src="http://scienceblogs.com/files/insolence/files/2017/09/InflammationAutism-450x184.jpg" /></a></p> <p>In the end, though, as impressive as it is, the relevance of this chart to autism is questionable at best, as is the relevance of this study. So let’s look at the mouse strain chosen by the investigators, <a href="http://www.criver.com/files/pdfs/rms/cd1/rm_rm_d_cd1_mouse.aspx">CD-1 mice</a>. Basically, there’s nothing particularly “autistic” (even in terms of existing mouse models purported to be relevant to autism) about these mice, which are described in most catalogues of companies selling them as “general purpose.” Basically, the authors used them because they had used them before in previous studies in which they reported that aluminum injections caused <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013409001809">motor neuron degeneration</a> (nope, no autism) and another crappy paper in the same journal from 2013 purporting to <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013413001773">link aluminum with adverse neurological outcomes</a>. That’s it.</p> <p>As for the experiment itself, neonatal mice were divided into two groups, a control group that received saline injections and the experimental group received injections of aluminum hydroxide in doses timed such that they that purportedly mimicked the pediatric vaccine schedule. Looking over the schedule used, I can’t help but note that there’s a huge difference between human infant development and mouse development. Basically, the mice received aluminum doses claimed to be the same as what human babies get by weight six times in the first 17 days of life. By comparison, in human babies these doses are <a href="https://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/infants_to_teens/index.html">separated by months</a>. In addition, in human babies, vaccines are injected intramuscularly (in a muscle). In this study, the mice were injected subcutaneously (under the skin). This difference immediately calls into question applicability and construct validity. The authors stated that they did it because they wanted to follow previously utilized protocols in their laboratory. In some cases, that can be a reasonable rationale for an experimental choice, but in this case the original choice was questionable in the first place. Blindly sticking with the same bad choice is just dumb.</p> <p>So what were the endpoints examined in the mice injected with aluminum hydroxide compared to saline controls? After 16 weeks, the mice were euthanized and their brains harvested to measure gene expression and the levels of the proteins of interest. Five males and five females from each group were “randomly paired” for “gene expression profiling.” Now, when I think of gene expression profiling, I usually think of either cDNA microarray experiments, in which the levels of thousands of genes are measured at the same time, or next generation sequencing, in which the level of every RNA transcript in the cell can be measured simultaneously. That doesn’t appear to be what the authors did. Instead, they used a technique known as PCR to measure the messenger RNA levels of a series of cytokines. Basically, they examined the amount of RNA coding for various immune proteins in the brain chosen by the authors as relevant to inflammation. The authors also did Western blots for many of those proteins, which is a test in which proteins are separated on a gel, blotted to a filter, and then probed with specific antibodies, resulting in bands that can be measured by a number of techniques, including autoradiography or chemiluminescence, both of which can be recorded on film on which the relevant bands can be visualized. Basically, what the authors did wasn’t really gene expression profiling. It was measuring a bunch of genes and proteins and hoping to find a difference.</p> <p>There’s an even weirder thing. The authors didn’t use quantitative real time reverse transcriptase PCR, which has been the state-of-the-art for measuring RNA message levels for quite some time. Rather, they used a very old, very clunky form of PCR that can only produce—at best—semiquantitative results. (That’s why we used to call it semiquantitative PCR.) Quite frankly, in this day and age, there is absolutely zero excuse for choosing this method for quantifying gene transcripts. If I were a reviewer for this article, I would have recommended not publishing it based on this deficiency alone. Real time PCR machines, once very expensive and uncommon, are widely available. (Hell, I managed to afford very simple one in my lab nearly 15 years ago.) Any basic or translational science department worth its salt has at least one available to its researchers.</p> <p>The reason that this semiquantitative technique is considered inadequate is that the amount of PCR product grows exponentially, roughly doubling with every cycle of PCR, asymptotically approaching a maximum as the primers are used up.<br /> It usually takes around 30-35 cycles before everything saturates and the differences observed in the intensity of the DNA bands when they are separated on a gel become indistinguishable. That’s why PCR was traditionally and originally primarily considered a “yes/no” test. Either the RNA being measured was there and produced a PCR band, or it didn’t. In this case, the authors used 30 cycles, which is more than enough to result in saturation. (Usually semiquantitative PCR stops around 20-25 cycles or even less.) And I didn’t even (yet) mention how the authors didn’t use DNAse to eliminate the small amounts of DNA that contaminate nearly all RNA isolations. Basically, the primers used for PCR pick up DNA as well as any any RNA, and DNA for the genes of interest will be guaranteed to contaminate the specimens without DNAse treatment. Yes, you molecular biologists out there, I know that’s simplistic, but my audience doesn’t consist of molecular biologists.</p> <p>Now, take a look at Figures 1A and 1B as well as Figures 2A and 2B. (<a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013417300417#t0015">You can do it if you want</a>. The article is open access.) Look at the raw bands in the A panels of the figures. Do you see much difference, except for IFNG (interferon gamma) in Figure 1A? I don’t. What I see are bands of roughly the same intensity, even the ones that are claimed to vary by three-fold. In other words, I basically am very skeptical that the investigators saw much of difference in gene expression between controls and the aluminum-treated mice. In fairness, for the most part, the protein levels as measured by Western blot did correlate with what was found on PCR, but there’s another odd thing. The investigators didn’t do Western blots for all the same proteins whose gene expression they measured by PCR. Of course, they present primers for 27 genes, but only show blots for 18 (17 inflammatory genes plus beta actin, which was used as a standard to normalize the values for the other 17 genes).</p> <p>I also question the statistical tests chosen by the authors. Basically, they examined each gene separately and used Student’s t-test to assess statistical significance. However, in reality they did many comparisons, at least 17, and there’s no evidence that the authors controlled for multiple comparisons. If one chooses statistical significance to occur at p &lt; 0.05 and compares 20 samples, by random chance alone at least one will be different. Add to that the fact that there is no mention of whether the people performing the assays were blinded to experimental group, and there's a big problem. Basic science researchers often think that blinding isn't necessary in their work, but there is a potential for unconscious bias that they all too often don't appreciate. For example, the authors used Image J, free image processing software developed by the NIH. I've used Image J before. It's a commonly used app used to quantify the density of bands on gels, even though it's old software and hasn't been updated in years. Basically, it involves manually drawing outlines of the bands, setting the background, and then letting the software calculate the density of the bands. The potential for bias shows up in how you draw the lines around the bands and set the backgrounds. As oblivious as they seem to be to this basic fact, basic scientists are just as prone to unconscious bias as the rest of us, and, absent blinding, in a study like this there is definitely the potential for unconscious bias to affect the results. In fairness, few basic science researchers bother to blind whoever is quantifying Western blots or ethidium bromide-stained DNA gels of PCR products, but that's just a systemic problem in biomedical research that I not infrequently invoke when I review papers. Shaw and Tomljenovic are merely making the same mistake that at least 90% of basic scientists make.</p> <p>But let’s step back and take the authors’ results at face value for a moment. Let’s assume that what is reported is a real effect. In the rest of the paper, the authors present evidence of changes in gene expression that suggest the activation of a molecular signaling pathway controlled by a molecule called NF-κB and that male mice were more susceptible to this effect than females. (Just like autism!) Funny, but I know NF-κB. I’ve <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20421348">published on NF-κB</a>. I had an NIH R01 grant to study how my favorite protein affected NF-κB. True, I ended up abandoning that line of research because I hit some dead ends. True, I’m not as familiar with NF-κB as I used to be. But I do know enough to know that NF-κB is easy to activate and very nonspecific. I used to joke that just looking at my cells funny would activate NF-κB signaling. Also, NF-κB activation is indeed associated with inflammation, but so what? What we have is an artificial model in which the mice are dosed much more frequently with aluminum than human infants. Does this have any relevance to the human brain or to human autism? who knows? Probably not. No, almost certainly not.</p> <p>Also, the mouse immune system is <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14978070">different</a> from the <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25404048">human</a> <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/110/8/2946.full.pdf">immune system</a>. None of this stops the authors from concluding:</p> <blockquote><p>Based on the data we have obtained to date, we propose a tentative working hypothesis of a molecular cascade that may serve to explain a causal link between Al and the innate immune response in the brain. In this proposed scheme, Al may be carried by the macrophages via a Trojan horse mechanism similar to that described for the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and hepatitis C viruses, travelling across the blood-brain-barrier to invade the CNS. Once inside the CNS, Al activates various proinflammatory factors and inhibits NF-κB inhibitors, the latter leading to activation of the NF-κB signaling pathway and the release of additional immune factors. Alternatively, the activation of the brain’s immune system by Al may also occur without Al traversing the blood-brain barrier, via neuroimmuno-endocrine signaling. Either way, it appears evident that the innate immune response in the brain can be activated as a result of peripheral immune stimuli. The ultimate consequence of innate immune over-stimulation in the CNS is the disruption of normal neurodevelopmental pathways resulting in autistic behavior.</p> </blockquote> <p>That’s what we call in the business conclusions not supported by the findings in a study. On a more “meta” level, it’s not even clear whether the markers of inflammation observed in autistic brains are causative or an epiphenomenon. As Skeptical Raptor noted. It could be that the inflammation reported is caused by whatever the primary changes in the brain that result in autism. Cause and effect are nowhere near clear. One can’t help but note that many of the infections vaccinated against cause way more activation of the immune system and cytokines than vaccination.</p> <p>So what are we left with?</p> <p>Basically, what we have is yet another mouse study of autism. The study purports to show that aluminum adjuvants cause some sort of “neuroinflammation,” which, it is assumed, equals autism. By even the most charitable interpretation, the best that can be said for this study is that it might show increased levels of proteins associated with inflammation in the brains of mice who had been injected with aluminum adjuvant way more frequently than human babies ever would be. Whether this has anything to do with autism is highly questionable. At best, what we have here are researchers with little or no expertise in very basic molecular biology techniques using old methodology that isn’t very accurate overinterpreting the differences in gene and protein levels that they found. At worst, what we have are antivaccine “researchers” who are not out for scientific accuracy but who actually want to promote the idea that vaccines cause autism. (I know, I know, it’s hard not to ask: Why not both?) If this were a first offense, I’d give Shaw and Tomljenovic the benefit of the doubt, but this is far from their first offense. Basically, this study adds little or nothing to our understanding of autism or even the potential effects of aluminum adjuvants. It was, as so many studies before, the torture of mice in the name of antivax pseudoscience. <a href="https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/aluminum-causes-autism-shaw-tomljenovic-vaccine/">The mice used in this study died in vain</a> in a study supported by the <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/05/24/is-tipper-gore-appearing-at-a-fundraiser-hosted-by-antivaxers/">profoundly antivaccine Dwoskin Foundation</a>.</p> <p>Also, I’ll tell my antivax admirer the same thing I once told J.B. Handley when he taunted me to examine a study that he viewed as “slam dunk” evidence for a vaccine-autism link: <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2008/05/17/some-monkey-business-in-autism-research/">You don’t tug on Superman’s cape</a>. And, no, <a href="https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jimcroce/youdontmessaroundwithjim.html">your name isn’t Slim</a>. You’re not an exception.</p> <p><strong>ADDENDUM 9/27/2017</strong>: Apparently I wasn’t…Insolent…enough with this paper. On PubPeer there is a big discussion about whether the images in this paper were manipulated and whether the authors self-plagiarized Figure 1 from another paper. <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence/">It looks bad</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Thu, 09/21/2017 - 01:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism" hreflang="en">autism</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/bioethics" hreflang="en">Bioethics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/biology" hreflang="en">biology</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/adjuvant" hreflang="en">adjuvant</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/aluminum" hreflang="en">aluminum</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/christopher-shaw" hreflang="en">Christopher Shaw</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/inflammation" hreflang="en">inflammation</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/lucija-tomljenovic" hreflang="en">Lucija Tomljenovic</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/nf-kb" hreflang="en">NF-κB</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/bioethics" hreflang="en">Bioethics</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/biology" hreflang="en">biology</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/brain-and-behavior" hreflang="en">Brain and Behavior</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365801" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505973648"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>What is shameful is this "research" gets published at all. Lack of blinding is inexcusable. Reference 41 is cited to show that aluminum from vaccines is found in the brains of mice (<a href="https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99">https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99</a>). Reading this reference 41, there is also no mention of blinding in looking at the brain slices of mice who received aluminum versus those who did not (and aluminum deposition was found in both control and aluminum-injected groups). Furthermore they explain away an anomalous finding in the aluminum found in rat brains over time as "was either due to interindividual variations in aluminum handling or to sampling problems related to variable proportions of grey and white matter in the randomly scanned areas (see below)". Say what?</p> <p>Sadly, each one of these poorly done papers (almost always from the same anti-vaccine biased groups) is used to bootstrap the next poorly done paper and even though we know it's a pile of poop (rather than a staircase to understanding), some parents will be fooled by the growing number of these crappy papers into believing vaccines cause autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365801&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BoS2fGQ0_dW6zOjaHqlThyXmZ5qMptwzb2MIHe5S2Pg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365801">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365802" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505982592"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm slightly confused by this anyway, surely aluminum adjuvants are chosen because they stimulate the immune system at the same time that the antigens in the vaccine are given. Why wouldn't you see activation of immune system genes when they are supposed to trigger that?</p> <p>As for the handwaving in the diagram of "innate immunity -&gt; autism" *sigh*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365802&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HSsECM14A53t32cr-kdyM2KakRwGcfyZUDYSw3KR9mI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andrew W (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365802">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365803" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505984093"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Because antivaxers will never let go of their obsession with vaccines as The One True Cause Of All Childhood Health Problems, the explanation for how vaccines supposedly cause all this harm are ever morphing in response to disconfirming evidence." </p> <p>Indeed they are experts at committing the logical fallacy of "moving the goalposts."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365803&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="n7bkTuGIlX1TAzoiT8yqPWexT3fWVnJCPhRNXCIPN0E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365803">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365804" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505984523"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Because antivaxers will never let go of their obsession with vaccines as The One True Cause Of All Childhood Health Problems, the explanation for how vaccines supposedly cause all this harm are ever morphing in response to disconfirming evidence."</p> <p>Indeed they are "experts" at committing the logical fallacy of "moving the goal-posts."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365804&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hBislOrDEwGneZaw5Atlrvgly3ARbeauU74DrWdiRWs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365804">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365805" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505985505"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In the case of Shaw and Tomljenovic's work, the term "fishing expedition" is better understood in the political rather than the scientific sense of the word. Like the sport fisherman who is looking for a trophy and doesn't much care whether it's salmon, swordfish, or sharks with fricking laser beams, Shaw and Tomljenovic are looking for something that they can blame on vaccines, and they don't much care what it is as long as they find something. That's like the investigations of President Clinton, which after many years and many millions of dollars came up with an instance where Clinton lied about a consensual extramarital affair.</p> <p>I was aware that Shaw and Tomljenovic are affiliated with UBC but didn't know the detail that they are specifically in the ophthalmology department. I can't resist observing in this context that there are none so blind as those who will not see.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365805&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pTeOgV-8LSga1A0K3PFTNUbNm8Ro7kOLlbeGWKgaDH4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365805">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365806" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505987183"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If you going to blame a metal, these eye docs should at least blame the most common metal in the universe and in our bodies. </p> <p>Hydrogen is a metal and it makes up a good portion of what we are and is everywhere in the body.</p> <p>I say we start a campaign to ban hydrogen from our bodies (I am being just a tad snarky).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365806&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="flyvxi2xWAvfmhfq47ssZHFJsXRPftxlje5wlLjYkCA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365806">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365807" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505988800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'd almost suggest a sort of "Three Strike" system for clowns like this: three bad papers, all trying to prove the same thing? One academic title stripped (or some other sanction).<br /> I recall several people with a real academic background who apparently dedicate their entire career trying to prove the unprovable, e.g. Soffritti with his never-ending crusade against aspartame, and Séralini chasing his GMO/Roundup mirage - and they fail every time (which in fact should be enough of a sanction, but somehow that doesn't deter them to keep going at it again and again and again...).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365807&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TEQ0Q2xl6KY1jM_ErBJAupT5EgSdMVEtpu60N3AQsl0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Richard (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365807">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365808" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505989308"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> . . . assuring me that antivaxers would be citing it for a long time. . . . </p></blockquote> <p>They got that part right. Don't antivaxers cite <i>any</i> "study that ever supported their views, no matter how twisted, forever?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365808&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_gRGtxXUNYU6rQxeGFcZ1Y7sg7PRdfBrm9Y8CTlwgr8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhchton (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365808">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365809" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505989435"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> . . . assuring me that antivaxers would be citing it for a long time. . . . </p></blockquote> <p>They got that right. Don't the antivaxers cite every "study" that supports their views, no matter how twisted, forever?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365809&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="GoGKRiqm7TzftEXff96lvC1QOBJ3SH_1Qq-jWgmcgt0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhchton (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365809">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365810" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505989474"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac writes,</p> <p>Basically, this study adds little or nothing to our understanding of autism or even the potential effects of aluminum adjuvants.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>"Little" or "nothing", which one is it?</p> <p>If the answer is "little", then, this research could be considered an incremental step towards the etiology of ASD. </p> <p>It appears you've intentionally given your antivax admirer a reason for hope by using the word "little", but, at the same time appeased your fan-base with the word "nothing".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365810&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L-spKbZ82Xw1L-wnt4dhFsvFtQRPGdLv5B9QYwQ8h9E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365810">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365811" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505989564"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry for the double (and wrongly typed name) double post. Need more coffee and less cat in lap.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365811&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RTf7iFn87qCzkO5YkfYuPDuunwlvPvZS4UdnbOlqCc0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sirhcton (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365811">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365812" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505990536"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Rich@3: As I am sure you and other RI commenters are aware, vaccines contain significant amounts of <a href="http://www.dhmo.org">dihydrogen monoxide</a>. So do malignant tumors. That's some dangerous stuff!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365812&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JFIUs_rvdhX_Lye7GE7bf7scpspZmcX3l7GfCLHDe-8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365812">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365813" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505990554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Little" = what happens when you overdose mice on Aluminum.....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365813&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IJNGoyPztHBdZrds_LTQj1cWBpylnSHeA5uMPoWfUXw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365813">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365814" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505990628"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Besides being a normal conversational gambit, there is actually some things to be learned from this so called study. One: People should perform research within there skill set; I wouldn't expect Orac to write a paper of positron spin positions, just as I don't expect eye doctors to do research on autism. This is also a good example of how not to perform and write a research paper.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365814&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YE7VBxW4ORMeIEgozC8xCzXxBFl8AJb9IrSbax-s4FQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365814">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365815" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505990927"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Eric, isn't that a good reason to ban hydrogen to prevent hydrogen metal poisoning?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365815&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8seQ_QPPmP4QmNV8bKFaUY9qYpKQfZ4GL9bU0j-FyY4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365815">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365816" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505992328"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I read this paper and looked at the figures (in high resolution even) and I have so many questions. Looking at the IFNG mRNA in males (Fig1A) vs. females (Fig2A). Males show increased IFNG transcription in response to Al, but the control females have just as much IFNG mRNA as Al-treated females. So female control female mice just have IFNG expression in their brain vs male mice? In their western blots there is a band in the control mice for pair 2 and in the blots of individual brain regions (Fig 5). They only show 2 bands for the mRNA expression which is misleading if they have that much variation.</p> <p>IL-4 and IL-5 aren't NF-KappaB targets to my knowledge. In fact some studies show that IL-4 suppresses NF-KappaB signaling.</p> <p>That Figure 6, IFNG and TNFaren't chemokines. IL-4 is primarily involved in T and B responses.IL-4 actually makes macrophages/microglia become less inflammatory.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365816&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LhqaHmEm04MGwLxDBn1FjvGWQKNHH2RODoXpk453MoE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LPS (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365816">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365817" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505994547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p># 8 Rich Bly<br /><i>isn’t that a good reason to ban hydrogen</i><br /> We don't know' All the participants just keep floating off like a cloud.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365817&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iC8O_jq7k-V22vnqRg-SCTK0w9ZGJQYENdGEInZzd4w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365817">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365818" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1505994604"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ 2 Eric Lund</p> <p><i>Christopher Shaw, a professor in the department of ophthalmology and visual sciences at UBC. Prof. Shaw, who is chair of the CMSRI's scientific advisory board, frequently collaborates with Lucija Tomljenovic, a post-doctoral research fellow in the department.</i></p> <p><i>. Organizations that promote messages about the dangers of vaccines, such as the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), have used the results of University of British Columbia research as evidence that vaccines cause autism and other serious harm.</i> </p> <p><a href="https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/ubc-stands-behind-vaccine-studies-discredited-by-who/article23302328/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;amp">https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/ubc-sta…</a>;</p> <p>Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute <a href="http://www.cmsri.org/">http://www.cmsri.org/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365818&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pwVjEPw3jVi_oKQWRM4IBFh5YK_lVMA4JQ6Ecn7nNoY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365818">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365819" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506000284"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I would like to point out that the diagram from the paper looks like a mouse, except the brain is in its ass. That's quite the Freudian slip there.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365819&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZCH2JBm4Xi2lg_UQdrXQGP1V8sOaxk-LePI_R148soc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LovleAnjel (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365819">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365820" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506001343"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Organizations that promote messages about the dangers of vaccines, such as the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), have used the results of University of British Columbia research as evidence that vaccines cause autism and other serious harm.</i></p> <p>The paper does cite the Dwoskin Foundation for funding. You can see it as the production wing of an integrated marketing operation.</p> <p><i>“Little” = what happens when you overdose mice on Aluminum…..</i></p> <p>Stuart Little was an autistic mouse? NOOOO!!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365820&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TYlaKPy2ROh6oEKAZTv_pJhsDRyKco-3XoK15YIrR1o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365820">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365821" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506004496"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And<br /> Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Tomljenovic About Vaccine Adjuvants<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVJkzWXG6CQ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVJkzWXG6CQ</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365821&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yUCz1DpI_CoJxKVk4Micm1_8qt0-Z17Fina1JiQyVgY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">jrkrideau (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365821">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365822" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506004566"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Reference 41 is cited to show that aluminum from vaccines is found in the brains of mice (<a href="https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99">https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99</a>).</i></p> <p>Imagine my surprise to find that the <a href="https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-99/open-peer-review">peer reviewers of that earlier work</a> were (a) Christopher Shaw, and (b) Carlo Perricone. The latter is another of the Circle of True Believers, who can be found regularly co-authoring with Shoenfeld &amp; Tomljenovic, or favourably reviewing other papers from the group for Frontiers journals. The level of intellectual inbreeding is such that their brains are growing sixth fingers. Funded yet again by the Dwoskin Foundation.</p> <p>It was not clear to me who nominates &amp; selects reviewers in the BMC model.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365822&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gODOeqtap_8hzdvK-1WbTCii3sLhg1gVbGOQB3UeFd4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365822">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365823" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506005881"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I was aware that Shaw and Tomljenovic are affiliated with UBC but didn’t know the detail that they are specifically in the ophthalmology department.</p></blockquote> <p>He seems to have started to go off the rails <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Christopher%20A%20Shaw%5BAuthor%20-%20Full%5D">around 2010</a> with a middling publication record beforehand (NB: not all the same Shaw). <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041010110002126">This item</a> has his affiliation as "University of British Columbia, Departments of Ophthalmology and Medical Science, Experimental Medicine, and Graduate Program in Neuroscience, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365823&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fVxL_knyAt_q6kHNeTv9GjQ6T4CFiQOM5WsRzHjdtkQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365823">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365824" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506006071"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Dammit: "<a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Christopher+A+Shaw%5BAuthor+-+Full%5D">around 2010</a>"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365824&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tok64fblKz6A9Z8AeRBrODheUz4CEba-LR3dPuxmzdE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365824">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365825" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506006345"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X17302901">Indignation alert</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365825&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gKFI8N5_bYIoXnAGNW0KHC9NRjV2Z0a3BIqKRw1LrvM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365825">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365826" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506006479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ Jesus, I must need more coffee. <a href="www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X17302901">This</a>, I hope, is the indignant letter to <i>Toxicology</i> that's in press.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365826&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TnNVGI-fWwBnB_mDYrfOADHvZbs2pikxK467E6tOmmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365826">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365827" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506006563"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>No, the SB monkeys have simply f*cked something up.</p> <p>doi.org/10.1016/j.tox.2017.09.010</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365827&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kkG1dhr0RDHzr84WG2efD-Dd_os6gCWRI3HSr60GsU4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365827">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365828" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506006840"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute</i></p> <p>Readers will recall that CMSRI funded Mawson's internet survey on vaccination sequelae, paid for its abortinve publication in Frontiers, then paid <b>again</b> to have it squeezed out through a pukefunnel from a particularly skeezy mendacious publishing parasite, in order that they could proclaim its results at AutismOne.</p> <p><a href="https://lbrbblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/cnn-money.png">https://lbrbblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/cnn-money.png</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365828&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zOhVEGpNrYqfyk3K_nH3UnYeAxWG_Htr0P4HHmSbdiI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365828">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365829" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506007307"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>This, I hope, is the indignant letter to Toxicology that’s in press.</i></p> <p>Goodness me, that is some serious whiny-arsed whinging there. The authors' <i>amour propre</i> has been dissed and needs a ride on the waahmbulance.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365829&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JnTUU0OiNagQi5FE005CpCwaLLU8LDFWkMz_AJFwvE8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365829">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365830" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506008911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In related news, Exley is <b>not</b> antivaccine* and was trying to crowdsource £500,000+ to demonstrate that aluminum causes Alzheimer disease.** For CMSRI. And to sell silicon water, or something.</p> <p>* hippocraticpost.com/infection-disease/aluminium-adjuvants-vaccines/<br /> ** futsci.com/project/the-aluminium-alzheimer-s-disease-hypothesis-what-is-the-role-of-aluminium-in-alzheimers-disease</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365830&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SjJTKycL6Knk8raTR34RlE1Q0ECM4MoM-FLjZ-c88no"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365830">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365831" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506009641"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ The list of backers on that failed attempt contains some familiar names, as well. Gotta love Robert "I have to pay and wait for overbroad FOIA requests?" Krakow.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365831&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dhEwySjaOUxf1CFtW6FJGAdtr37zdY1In32qtjriz24"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365831">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365832" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506010353"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>No, the SB monkeys have simply f*cked something up.</p></blockquote> <p>I don't know what happened, but a whole lot of legitimate comments got flagged not just for moderation, but as spam. They were dumped into the spam folder. It looks like it's been going on about a day and a half; i.e., since yesterday morning sometime. I've released and published all of the non-spam posts that got hung up. I have no idea what happened. All I can do is to try to keep an eye on the spam folder again to make sure no one whose comment gets flagged as spam has to wait too long for his or her comment to publish. That's all I can do.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365832&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1PIm8I6dLpb5fjtJYfu0ItfgF9rpmz0-Wb_8ac1aKeg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365832">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365833" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506010662"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Orac, you just need everyone to switch to Al free adjuvants in their posts, or is that mouse free?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365833&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xuCUKE2NPgfN7puwFgYxRgtxUd-rXmn1GnQ3XDsrj2M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365833">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365834" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506017297"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The antivax movement has started making it's way into the veterinary profession. We had a client that we eventually turned away because she refused to get a rabies vaccine for her dog (her children weren't vaccinated either). We have many people that only get the rabies vaccine and none of the others. It's very unfortunate when a puppy (and I rare occasion adult dog) comes in with Parvo (an often times fatal disease) when there's a vaccine for that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365834&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zk9Y2_zwjw7WHB3AlhgP-AEne9WD08ZccmmYVrPPJp0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jessica (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365834">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365835" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506020339"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ herr doktor bimler #22: AVers have figured out how to bootstrap their bullsh*t. It's a flimsy house of cards but all they have to do is scare a few percent of parents out of vaccinating and then they have the vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks they so badly crave as proofz that vaccines don't work. </p> <p>Despicable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365835&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x9_RcDQ1tpBI14QN2zM3D_7K9TKY8POqZ6GgLNIz_rw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris Hickie (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365835">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365836" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506021067"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>People should perform research within there skill set; I wouldn’t expect Orac to write a paper of positron spin positions, just as I don’t expect eye doctors to do research on autism. </i></p> <p>I am not going to demand strict demarcation of specialities. But if I wrote a paper on immune responses and autism, I probably wouldn't sent it to "Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry", unless I wanted to avoid referees with expertise in autism or immunology or neurology.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365836&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dl29fv8vK-MakI6kxQXiVuUS9bOnoTy0EuOW6ud-qqw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365836">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365837" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506028828"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Does anyone know what Dr. Tomljenovic is doing these days? A google search places her at British Colombia, but she doesn't have tenure, unlike Prof. Shaw, does she?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365837&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xnPbnFIcff4TI-F5DWpOFyiKfIl5_Q5j-U7Gi_V1zrc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365837">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365838" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506031877"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Dorit Reiss:<br /> The UBC Faculty as of 2017-2018 still lists Tomljenovic as a postdoc. From what I can tell she started at UBC as a postdoc in 2011. Seems to me like a long time to be stuck there , however the Dwoskin and CMSRI money continues to flow.<br /> As a UBC medical alumnus, I hang my head in shame.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365838&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k_Y2055sVNAGBm6Uy7h43dSrV6niOCYAVfWpNnwWdPo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365838">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365839" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506034634"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jessica @34<br /> I was a vet tech for 6 years, the last 18 months of which I was in emergency medicine. Parvo is a horrific disease, capable of killing even the healthiest of pups. The idea of people not vaccinating their dogs infuriates me to no end. If not vaccinating your kids is abuse, not vaccinating your dogs is just as abusive. What is worse is that kids are covered by their parents insurance (if they have it). Pets less frequently are covered.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365839&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W4XHA15ch8Kf9LgFRDnDgpCbIFyGsUY129ZDtv4FFZ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Slugdoc (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365839">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365840" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506043405"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccines are not just "The One True Cause Of All Childhood Health Problems" to antivaxers. They are the only cause of all health problems. Before vaccines, all humans needed was clean water and clean food. Not vaccines. Vaccines are the cause of all the world's evils, in the mind of the antivaxer. Even the unvaxed are doomed because one's mother's vaccines will affects one's health. Now, if you are misfortunate enough to have ill effects from vaccines sometime in your recent multigenerational past, all you need to do is take $987 worth of supplements daily and $1000 in organic food daily. Of course, you also need the water filtration system and the air purifier and the tanning bed. Also, David Avocado Wolfe has some pillow covers to sell you. </p> <p>(tongue in cheek)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365840&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4qWhUzEagMMxbV9RtbEJzFVn53md70Y8Pl4qyEEXTRs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kathy (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365840">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506048878"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ chris hickie "Bootstrap their bullsh*t" Is that one of yours? Hilarious. Here in Australia at least our Health Minister calls out antivaxers and antivax Doctors. One even got his licence suspended or revoked - i forget - aww poor anitvaxer. Orac and his SBM colleagues do a great job. Never stop.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yp10JaqafzfDAw2jdw_VXfVp3H0epQDQ24iFHdtEqWM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">FireDragon (not verified)</span> on 21 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506062927"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ jkrideau - good article in the Globe there, i particularly like the equating of anti-vaccine to an 'ethnic or racial slur' by our aggrieved professor of aluminum and eyeballs. As another prof in the interview says there is academic freedom but there is also academic responsibility. Not a lot of responsibility in these two but delusions are powerful things.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C0TXhCWg5Azb3-vDb9YVhLWoQzz1wglLgQ2-4vFzCWU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JDK (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506067374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Kathy (#40) beat me to it. I was going to cite the "multigenerational effects" of vaccines, since only vaccines could possibly cause health problems, if your unvax'd kid has something, it must be due to your vaccine history (or your mom's, I don't know how far back it goes!)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="As92lujoS9pTHUD6w5dpk14Am3vp5BdgjwS23L_pwds"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Docosc (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506067584"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>On the subject of mouse studies, though. I frequently cite this one:<br /> Neurotoxicology. 2008 Jan;29(1):160-9. Epub 2007 Nov 1. Links<br /> Neonatal exposure to perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS) and perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) causes neurobehavioural defects in adult mice.<br /> Johansson N, Fredriksson A, Eriksson P.</p> <p>Authors do not claim autism per se, but note behavioral changes. In my house we use cast iron. Never see the antivaxxers using it, though. Of course, it does not implicate vaccines, so can not possibly be relevant to their obsession.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="guJzpIWLemVSsd-bY2oWNa_CKO7VuHZlvjE3GRHNzK4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Docosc (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506072434"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The "one true cause"? LOL. Clever use of hyperbole. I sure hope people know better than to rely on blogs like this to tell them what the arguments against vaccines are and why they are wrong. It's as reliable as listening to only one side of a debate, and trusting them to tell you honestly why they won. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sRH4API_cp1PIMSa91LOa4NcWV6VZlDEOOoSiHRZWFk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506074950"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>OK, I was not too offended by my comments vanishing into the aether, but NWO gets posted and mine don't? Now I am sad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hkAau2p3ymT7PythMpcDj_wC7AZQ11RuO_VOvVouB3g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Docosc (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506075092"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ #43<br /> From reading articles and comments posted by anti-vaxxers themselves, it's not that much of an exaggeration/hyperbole to summarize their arguments as such.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="f3Yn-gvGr_-eAzd6DgjQnECv2dnodKUzYRyhiXYNzwg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Internal Medicine Resident">Internal Medic… (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506075834"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWOR -</p> <p>Here's a list of conditions that anti-vexers have claimed are caused by vaccines. </p> <p>Is there anything on this list that you are willing to say 'No, vaccines do not cause that'.</p> <p>Acute flaccid paralysis<br /> ADD<br /> ADEM<br /> AIDS<br /> Allergies<br /> ALS (Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis)<br /> Alzheimer's<br /> Anaphylaxis<br /> Antiphospholipid syndrome (APS)<br /> Aplastic anemia<br /> Apnea<br /> Appetite, anorexia<br /> Arthritis<br /> Asthma<br /> Autism<br /> Autoimmune diseases<br /> Bell's Palsy<br /> Birth defects<br /> Blood Reactions<br /> Bowel disease<br /> Brain damage<br /> Brain Swelling<br /> BSE risk<br /> Bullous pemphigoid<br /> Cancer<br /> Cerebral Palsy<br /> CFIDS/ME<br /> Chronic inflammatory<br /> CIC (Klinkers)<br /> CJD risk<br /> Coeliac Disease<br /> Convulsions<br /> Criminality<br /> Crohn's Disease<br /> Cysts<br /> Death<br /> Deep vein thrombosis (DVT)<br /> Demyelination<br /> Demylenating Polyneuropathy (CIDP).<br /> Depression<br /> Dermatomyositis<br /> Development disability<br /> Diabetes<br /> Down's syndrome<br /> Dravet Syndrome<br /> Dyslexia<br /> Dystonia<br /> Ear infections (Otitis Media)<br /> Eczema<br /> Encephalitis, Encephalopathy<br /> Encephalomyelitis<br /> Epilepsy<br /> Erysipelas<br /> Erythema multiforme<br /> Eye damage<br /> Fanconi's anemia<br /> Feline sarcomas<br /> Fever<br /> Fibromyalgia<br /> Foetal damage &amp; death<br /> Foot and mouth disease<br /> Gait disturbances<br /> Gangrene<br /> Gastroenteritis<br /> Glomerulonephritis<br /> Graves' disease<br /> Guillain-Barre syndrome<br /> Gulf War Syndrome<br /> Hair loss<br /> Headache<br /> Hearing loss<br /> Heart damage<br /> Heller's syndrome<br /> Hemolytic anemia<br /> Henoch-Schoenlein Purpura<br /> Hepatitis<br /> Hughes syndrome and antiphospholipid syndrome (APS)<br /> Hyperkinetic syndrome<br /> Immune Suppression<br /> Infections<br /> Infertility<br /> Inflammatory bowel disease<br /> Intussusception<br /> Kawasaki Syndrome<br /> Kidney disorders<br /> Lennox-gastaut syndrome<br /> Leprosy<br /> Leukemia &amp; lymphoma<br /> Lichen planus<br /> Liver disorders<br /> Lou Gehrig's disease<br /> Lung, breathing issues<br /> Lupus<br /> Lycanthropy<br /> Lyell's syndrome<br /> Lyme disease<br /> Lymphoma<br /> Macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF)<br /> Meningitis<br /> Meningoencephalitis<br /> Menopause<br /> Miscarriage<br /> Mitichondrial Disorder<br /> MS<br /> Mumps<br /> Myasthenia gravis<br /> Myocarditis<br /> Narcolepsy<br /> Nervous system damage<br /> Neurological<br /> Obesity<br /> Optic Neuritis<br /> Orchitis<br /> Osteoporosis<br /> Otitis Media<br /> Pancreatitis<br /> Pancytopenia<br /> Panic Attacks<br /> Panniculitis<br /> Parkinsonism<br /> Peanut Allergy<br /> Pericarditis<br /> Pneumonia<br /> Polio<br /> POTS<br /> Premature ovarian failure (POF)/premature menopause<br /> Psoriasis<br /> Renal<br /> Respiratory<br /> RSV<br /> Sarcomas (feline)<br /> Scleroderma<br /> Scoliosis<br /> Seizures<br /> Serum Sickness<br /> Shaken Baby Syndrome<br /> Shingles<br /> SIDS<br /> Sinusitis<br /> Skin disorders<br /> Smallpox<br /> Spanish Flu<br /> SSPE<br /> Sterilization<br /> Stevens-Johnson syndrome<br /> Sudden death<br /> Suicide<br /> Syphilis<br /> TB<br /> Tetanus<br /> Thrombocytopenia purpura<br /> Tics<br /> Tonsillitis<br /> Tourette's Syndrome<br /> Transverse myelitis<br /> Typhoid<br /> Uveitis<br /> Vaccinia<br /> Vasculitis<br /> Vasculomyelinopathy<br /> Violent Behaviour<br /> Whooping cough</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zp5LbPHTu7yTsgls3uTZbWh2mB4EuY4dCqsW3RjpqF0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506079750"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In other anti-vax news/ torturing...</p> <p>I've been hearing about a new documentary about AJW which is advertised as though it were 'balanced' ( famous last word I know)- my initial reaction seems to be realistic:<br /> it is most likely pure Andy worship again.</p> <p>There's an article by GInger Taylor @ AoA as well as one at briandeer.com about Miranda Bailey, the film maker.</p> <p>Guess which one makes sense.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2ERYIDf0ZXqZraWYaPNp55CJXrgxtsGL8i-CPkrnXJ0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506082144"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>From what I can tell she started at UBC as a postdoc in 2011. Seems to me like a long time to be stuck there , however the Dwoskin and CMSRI money continues to flow.</p></blockquote> <p>She did a stint midway with Shoenfeld, as I recall.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RxEUpNQ2fG8UN2yeQe2zoLK1iygikRFXmQ6dZgNfHzI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506082910"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>No, the SB monkeys have simply f*cked something up.</blockquote> <p>I don’t know what happened, but a whole lot of legitimate comments got flagged not just for moderation, but as spam.</p></blockquote> <p>I was referring to the prepending of the page URL that was breaking embedded links.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bz5UxX9XK6i7KT6wTSxXI2-xQk4674W6lk3jkAOXPo4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365852" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506088362"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There's some interesting comments on FB about this study. In one comment thread, for instance, suspicions have been raised that one of the blots was altered. There is also discussion of how the authors didn't look at IκB, which is key to what is known as the canonical NFκB pathway. I'm kicking myself for not having noticed that, given that I had an R01 from 2005-2010 in which NFκB was a major part. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/dorit.reiss/posts/10214563162377668?comment_id=10214563959997608&amp;reply_comment_id=10214569075445491&amp;notif_t=feed_comment&amp;notif_id=1506106261764413">https://www.facebook.com/dorit.reiss/posts/10214563162377668?comment_id…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365852&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="12P607t-a3Ul7tHQiMg0Ibu6TdndGk2WCAQVFy1-xro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365852">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365853" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506089701"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Here’s a list of conditions that anti-vexers have claimed are caused by vaccines.</p></blockquote> <p>Seems to be missing drug addiction, which is touted by one Benedetta over a AoA, IIRC.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365853&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="is2ucA07OHxjRH-_uAd9LXiWuxNT-NprdhjtxCP9_iw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365853">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365854" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506089725"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ "over <b>at</b>"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365854&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ecIKdYlNSR9GhNddce5EnIfzHSTOKW1yj2wK_7TPrbI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365854">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365855" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506092498"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny -- interesting list. If nothing else, it's bound to prompt some curiosity in the "vaccine hesitant" that will get them looking around for more information. That is, assuming they don't consider your sneering contempt to be evidence of anything. ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365855&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y0HD9AjjR-gRj_qK0JgRJeYIj_4cW2Q8-S8GTFbRnx8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365855">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365856" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506093886"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>There’s some interesting comments on FB about this study. In one comment thread, for instance, suspicions have been raised that one of the blots was altered. </i></p> <p>That came up at Pubpeer as well, though the "evidence" for a spliced / deleted band on one of the blots looks like jpg-compression artefacts to me.<br /> I can't see the motivation for the authors to delete a band. As it is, the Figure shows TNF levels varying wildly among the Control animals (all the way down to 0)... implying that it has <b>no biological significance</b>. It's hard to image what a band could show that would be <i>worse</i> than that, and make it worth deleting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365856&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tWIjP88PWwLCPNPdseALqBedi-F2JOGmORtdrwuVRW8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365856">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365857" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506095890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey, I'm trying to build bridges here. I struggle to find the "sneering contempt" you mentioned. My post was simple, and had a simple request - here's a list, what doesn't belong.</p> <p>If we can agree that there are just some things vaccines <b>don't</b> cause, maybe, just maybe, we can put an end to the idea that vaccines cause all problems, and then work to come to an agreement on the problems that vaccines do cause.</p> <p>Surly there are things on the list that make you say 'No, there is no evidence that vaccines cause XXXX, YYYY, and ZZZZ , and anyone who believes otherwise is a silly person'. But if you insist that everything on the list might because by vaccines, then I think we would have to agree that Kathy is right after all.</p> <p>As far as Narad's suggestion that my list is incomplete, I freely admit that it's possible, and in fact I admit it's likely, but I'm not interested in moving the goal posts. But if you want to start with drug addiction, well, it would be a start.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365857&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lkerrbkAAidgNl4RVoXxsq5VEwGG7d86SDe1Zef_9B4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365857">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365858" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506107252"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i> Reference 41 is cited</i></p> <p>Ref. 116 omits the minor detail of journal and year:</p> <blockquote><p>[116] E.B. Mukaetova-Ladinska, J. Westwood, E.K. Perry</p></blockquote> <p>Are there no copy-editors at Elsevier any more??? <i>[/rhetorical question]</i></p> <p>Another self-citation of interest is</p> <blockquote><p>[166] C.A. Shaw, S. Sheth, D. Li, L. Tomljenovic, OA Autism 2 (2014) 11</p></blockquote> <p>"OA Autism" being a predatory journal from the publisher "OA Publishing London". Neuroskeptic delved into the skeezy grifters behind it, a few years ago:<br /><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2014/08/25/strange-rise-fall-medical-journal/#.VOJkZC7VElIc">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2014/08/25/strange-rise-…</a></p> <p>The publisher subsequently went t-u:<br /><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/03/11/when-publisher-stops-publishing/#.WcWzR8Zx1tS">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/03/11/when-publishe…</a></p> <p>So I am grateful to Shaw et al. for reminding me of the whole entertaining episode.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365858&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wpvZ9bEOr4fe1qEYd2ukOxbGvomuMA2lGqlRdHowro8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365858">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365859" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506113781"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>don’t know what happened, but a whole lot of legitimate comments got flagged not just for moderation, but as spam..<br /> Could some person relate this fact of checking the spam filter to Greg Laden? He's not been receiving comments for a few days now -- <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2017/09/19/hurricane-maria/">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2017/09/19/hurricane-maria/</a> </p> <p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2017/09/19/hurricane-maria/#respond">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2017/09/19/hurricane-maria/#respond</a> </p> <p>I guess, they are all in the spam folder.... pass it on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365859&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BWK9jwN4_TzNmdPo-C1Gd9-ojfYaCuWYXtNLvW89Dwk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Tim (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365859">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365860" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506117519"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny, why don't you start by telling us which of the conditions on the list you posted you believe CAN be caused by vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365860&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="CvBb3tAmPGfDkzPNB_HAI1rxO6r1F1LAnWyMzvCltRQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365860">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365861" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506120856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That wouldn't prove anything. </p> <p>To recap - </p> <p>Kathy said "Vaccines are not just “The One True Cause Of All Childhood Health Problems” to antivaxers. They are the only cause of all health problems."</p> <p>You laughed out loud at the idea (or so you claimed). </p> <p>I give you a list of conditions that anti-vaxxers have blamed on vaccines, and ask if there are any that you don't believe are caused by vaccines, and you refuse to name any.</p> <p>I can only conclude that you think it's a reasonable list. I just don't understand why you're embarrassed to say so.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365861&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZlBonhaWcwxqDSvk9aDrTa2GaTqe15dIhytWPv_rNdg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365861">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365862" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506121127"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny said: "Hey, I’m trying to build bridges here." So start building. The obvious place to start is to ascertain the extent to which you disagree with the list you posted. So tell us which of the items on your list you agree can be caused by vaccines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365862&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qfvcyIq9LeYULjdFgOXR_BT3ps6RCgxMV6X14NqQo48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365862">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365863" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506121692"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>BTW, Johnny, your list had nothing to do a "one true cause." It was a list of conditions that some people allege CAN be caused by vaccines. I accepted for the sake of discussion that some people do, in fact, allege it. But presumably no one has ever alleged that vaccines are the "one true cause" of death, for example, which was one condition on your list.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365863&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AaarjoH5BJreO7nHbK0AqwzieHFw6eZJjOLQhL_Ey6A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365863">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365864" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506125054"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I know I had a comment here. I think the spam filters acting u again.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365864&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WJp7Q0bbM3gptg1gwg5yiaaoW7RLR9yoqQC-TeJcuYU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 22 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365864">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365865" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506152421"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> I accepted for the sake of discussion that some people do, in fact, allege it. </p></blockquote> <p>Like you, it seems. A fair interpretation of this thread is that you believe that vaccines can cause all the conditions on that list. They truly are the wonder drug that work wonders.</p> <p>You've made Kathy's point quite nicely.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365865&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qHylg0uDTR39zi6cKczemZzloXdg-UTnAKPWvGDLraA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365865">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365866" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506161227"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow, Johnny, you're really doing somersaults to avoid telling us which conditions on your list you agree can be caused by vaccines. It's no mystery why. You have two choices here: to claim vaccines have no risks, which would destroy whatever credibility you might have; or publish a list of vaccine injuries that actually do happen. Which will be? Or will you move on to back flips? :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365866&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3lS4w44z31Fxw__RDDnSqS0YF9LqjvETWKIa9mRoFIA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365866">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365867" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506161904"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Vaccines do have side effects. Here's a good list, broken down by vaccine type.</p> <p><a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm</a></p> <p>Now answer the question - is there any disease or condition that vaccines don't cause?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365867&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dC9i2xkZDsOLeJ6hKklRQjcO1BbmChDeWO5DGK95Ytw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365867">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365868" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506163554"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny, go ahead and post a clean list of the vaccine injuries here, like you did for your first list. And if you want me to comment on your first list, post links to the sources you got them from (like you did for vaccine injuries acknowledged by the CDC) and I'll take a look. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365868&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d3qamqSuVp-S1WhvMJpCeUINWHIf6fJsNBHLVzhf4io"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365868">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365869" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506164495"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Why should I do that? So you can move the bar again?</p> <p>You've made your position, and intentions quite clear.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365869&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EDKZ0F74bqXnQABRyNbrSOsg0FJ3eLa_YhpYIyeXJCk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365869">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365870" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506164954"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You even said "I accepted for the sake of discussion that some people do, in fact, allege it", and now I have to give citations that people have made the allegations.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365870&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="36aNUnR3r4rL_4o8JJxbjW6eZrdIOKD3LyCOgjNLfTI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365870">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365871" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506165430"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Here, Johnny--I made a clean list of the vaccine injuries acknowledged by the CDC for you. Interestingly, they don't even include all the injuries that have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. See how many bridges we've already built? Don't bother with the links if you don't want to--you'd only post the weakest links anyway.</p> <p>Serious allergic reaction<br /> Death<br /> Permanent brain damage.<br /> Long-term seizures<br /> Coma<br /> Lowered consciousness<br /> Guillain-Barré Syndrome<br /> Deafness<br /> Pneumonia<br /> Inflammation of the stomach or intestines<br /> Intussusception (a type of bowel blockage)<br /> Swelling, severe pain and/or bleeding in the arm<br /> Severe long-lasting shoulder pain/difficulty moving the arm<br /> Severe nervous system reaction<br /> Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach ache<br /> Seizure (jerking or staring)<br /> Non-stop crying, for 3 hours or more<br /> High fever, over 105°F<br /> Fainting<br /> Blood in the urine or stool</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365871&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dPFmfeJYfOgEO2Llu4xCLUV8Isz_fSMIkAEwLBka_rs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365871">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365872" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506167091"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny, we can add to our points of agreement the following acknowledged vaccine injuries listed on the Vaccine Injury Compensation Table that weren't already on the list of CDC acknowledged vaccine injuries I posted above. Interestingly, I'm getting a "page not found" error on this table now. Fortunately, I was able to find it on the WayBackMachine, dated 9-10-2017. :)</p> <p>Anaphylaxis<br /> Brachial Neuritis<br /> Vasovagal syncope<br /> Encephalopathy or encephalitis<br /> Chronic arthritis<br /> Thrombocytopenic purpura<br /> Vaccine Strain Measles Viral Disease<br /> Paralytic Polio<br /> Vaccine Strain Polio Viral Infection<br /> Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration<br /> Disseminated varicella vaccine strain viral disease<br /> Varicella vaccine strain viral reactivation</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365872&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8w5mxRKm9auD1CjVtmufBT8T2iPoRIM2sgcbpF09vA0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365872">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506167342"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of course, the injuries that have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program are not limited to the injuries listed on the table. Maybe you can look up the rest of them for us, Johnny., so we can build more bridges. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DQInd8hzollZuILHQyno5rPQx8z6d3UL0WiOnhotqak"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506167371"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Now NWOR, provide the PubMed indexed studies that show those vaccine side effects occur more often than they occur with the actual diseases. </p> <p>Also, do provide at least the PubMed indexed case report of the paralytic polio happening with the IPV. Because the OPV has not been used in years.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W_8zQRRE2yDRBn-zVpi4AtzKjaUcdgMEXPlpiu7ps2A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506168385"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, are you saying you disagree with the CDC's list of acknowledged vaccine injuries, and/or the acknowledged vaccine injuries listed in the HRSA's Vaccine Injury Compensation Table? If so, it seems it is you who should have the burden of proving they're wrong. What vaccine injuries do you acknowledge occur? Let's help Johnny build bridges. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cSl0sp2eU6n69Za1O8jAWzYGbShaMCyPWemU0ItzWF8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506169134"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>BTW, Chris, according to polioeradication dot org: "Oral poliovirus vaccines (OPV) are the predominant vaccine used in the fight to eradicate polio." Are you saying the OPV isn't used in the industrialized world, so the injuries don't matter?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IOf306ZKoOjRNDJJd4aZEWRCy5c1yayqygb1l-7cnKY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506169479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I disagree because you did not link to the documents. Plus the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is not part of the CDC, but with Health Resources and Services Administration. </p> <p>Do you really thing the compensated claims are proof that the vaccines cause <b>more</b> harm than the diseases? You must have some kind of reading comprehension issue. So lets see how well you are at basic math word problems.</p> <p>Check out their statistics:<br /><a href="https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccinecompensation/data/monthly-website-stats-09-05-17.pdf">https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccinecompensation/data/…</a></p> <p>Now go to the bottom of the first table to the row that says "Grand Total." The data first column is the total number of vaccines given in the stated time period (2,845,946,816 total vaccines). Now run your finger over to the number to the total compensated claims (2,976 claims). Now divide the first by the second number.</p> <p>What is that number? What does it mean? </p> <p>Also, go look at the compensated claims, tell us how many are under the "Settlement" column. What does that mean? Here is a hint: the second page of this pdf file has a section titled "Definitions." Learn how to use it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bm7oZBhZWbfIMJDI7thAN141_sQ52w6dFQ4fMF1i_Ng"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506169695"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, did you get enough sleep last night? Johnny linked to the CDC's list of acknowledged vaccine injuries. And all you have to do to find the HRSA's Vaccine Injury Compensation Table is to search that term in any search engine, retrieve the link showing "page not found," and look it up on the WayBackMachine. It was just taken down, so the link still shows up on search engines.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HSE6Dr1Q-Dq28SYj_-H-H3WQmylHRIvhdXSyoExGG1Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506169935"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I made a clean list of the vaccine injuries acknowledged by the CDC</p></blockquote> <p>Uh-huh.</p> <blockquote><p>Blood in the urine or stool</p></blockquote> <p>This, for example, is <a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#adenovirus">under adenovirus</a>. Let's read:</p> <p>"More serious problems have been reported by about 1 person in 100, within 6 months of vaccination. These problems included:</p> <p> blood in the urine or stool<br /> pneumonia<br /> inflammation of the stomach or intestines</p> <p>"It is not clear whether these mild or serious problems were caused by the vaccine or occurred after vaccination by chance."</p> <p>I'm amazed that teh NWAD managed to squeeze out a comment without a fυcking brain-dead emoticon, though. Perhaps a case of wake 'n' bake.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Aap7alzShzN0BwhC_MPNUB9Tfr-uLYx0suYEAZQK15Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506169961"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And BTW, Chris, this discussion is not about the frequency of vaccine injuries--it's about reaching some agreement about which vaccine injuries actually occur. Johnny's trying to build bridges here, and all you're doing it interfering.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iIkPPlfoAQjzSmpwXJAwny7Wo0LDDQzytCeI0i1Y-M4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506170448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>And all you have to do to find the HRSA’s Vaccine Injury Compensation Table is to search that term in any search engine, <b>retrieve the link showing “page not found,”</b> and look it up on the WayBackMachine.</p></blockquote> <p>Sweet Fυcking Christ, are you stupid. Did you ever try just searching for "vaccine injury table" and looking at one of the many fυcking links that work, such as <a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/100.3">this one</a>? Do you remember how to read this sort of material, or has your lawyer brain-rot reached an advanced stage thanks to the expanding Earth?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IaJanZbRei_cwhDjP_3M37dVaxThoRVOJBC1DwrLvAw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506171401"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So, NWOR, you really do not know how to do simple math word problems, even when the numbers are given to you.</p> <p>And all I am trying to do is to get you to answer what is actually on that CDC link: the relative risk. So, tell us why you refuse to answer by just cut and pasting from the page that says for influenza (<a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#flu">https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#flu</a>): "There may be a small increased risk of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) after inactivated flu vaccine. This risk has been estimated at 1 or 2 additional cases per million people vaccinated. This is much lower than the risk of severe complications from flu, which can be prevented by flu vaccine."</p> <p>You list GBS like it is common after the flu vaccine. But it is clearly not, and it actually more likely to happen from actually getting flu.</p> <p>So you are either lying by omission, did not even read past the first page of that link give by Johnny, or just do not know how to read.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jqbXG2w6YiJFuJpLKNAW8aOZOwllUJUt7eu9-SsIT-w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506171968"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad, I really try to ignore you because I don't like picking on people who seem to be "special." But special or not, you are one of the rudest little twits to ever grace this page.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wxyUtkImmL8McVADlvmnlKpOLu88K_mWf_-NTl-9WF0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506172129"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, I guess we agree on one thing: the CDC is not a reliable source of information about vaccine risks. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RN49eYCNIuqfoxDX5VDp1wRZrGZv9otemWEYu4_G6NI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506172280"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So NWOR, where is the side effect of "paralytic polio" on the link provided by Johnny:<br /><a href="https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#polio">https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#polio</a></p> <p>By the way, here is the injury compensation table at the actual HRSA site:<br /><a href="https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/pre03202017-vaccineinjurytable.pdf">https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/pre0320201…</a></p> <p>Note that the only polio vaccine that it lists paralytic polio is OPV... and that is why it is not used in the USA anymore!</p> <p>Did you even notice on that page that you had so much difficulty finding... that there were specific time conditions? No, of course not. You can't seem to figure out how to read table.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sTqsp64ontzaCqJghkqVcuABqypn3se_-Wdc21DcgCM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506172582"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "Chris, I guess we agree on one thing: the CDC is not a reliable source of information about vaccine risks."</p> <p>Wrong, wrong, wrongety wrong. You misrepresented the risks, and did not link directly to <b>your</b> sources. When you were shown what you got was wrong, wrong, wrongety wrong... you claim the CDC is not reliable.</p> <p>Again, you make stuff up and get upset that your "brilliant" interpretation turns out to be regurgitated bovine manure. Gah! You can't even find a calculator to do my little math story problem, because you cannot honestly answer with the actual results.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iRow_KtG7qhzzkMNo63D7N-Uu6mwLSJxWmeL698aYNk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506172632"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Narad, I really try to ignore you because I don’t like picking on people who seem to be “special.”</p></blockquote> <p>I'd love to see you give it a try, Ginny.</p> <blockquote><p>But special or not, you are one of the rudest little twits to ever grace this page.</p></blockquote> <p>You don't even inspire me, Johnnycakes. Simply observing that you're completely brain-dead requires very little creativity. You should have tried to become a Dreamlander rather than going to law school.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ipb4WAJCcruvCDpGQFL-kUGa3F9r2IWuuZf3iO2lRNc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506172749"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "But special or not, you are one of the rudest little twits to ever grace this page."</p> <p>Obviously "rudeness" is asking you questions that expose you as a liar. Especially the bit about pointing out you were literally cherry picking the CDC vaccine side effect page and the NVICP injury table... or more likely, not reading/understanding them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wZmwTDUQKTOW_Sn5qREra1w06d4EbMCEtWOJYHqkVi8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506173186"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chis, you are such a liar. I misrepresented NOTHING--I quoted the vaccine injuries listed on the CDC's list of acknowledge vaccine injuries, and on the HRSA's Vaccine Injury Table VERBATIM. Dance around it all you want, but stop lying.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qgXkmte8uGjgck05VXPmza66skTqBW62uRmcm-C6Teo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506175597"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I quoted the vaccine injuries listed on the CDC’s list of acknowledge vaccine injuries, and on the HRSA’s Vaccine Injury Table VERBATIM</p></blockquote> <p>“It is not clear whether these mild or serious problems were caused by the vaccine or occurred after vaccination by chance.”</p> <p>Are you unclear on the basic concept, 00795670?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RU8Me14MtDbCKoonbwWt9zzknwd2t8iZQKu0dfTYKSw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506186595"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Um, sure. Whatever you say, NWO Troll. I actually posted the link and the verbiage that you ignored. You actually posted words without context, which is form of misrepresentation. News flash: no one under the age of of seventeen is going to file for paralytic polio at the NVICP since it was removed from the American schedule in 2000.</p> <p>So how are you doing with that little math word problem I gave you? Have you figured out that almost every device that can access the internet has a calculator? Do you know how to do fourth grade division problems?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Sfgmw-Kve20nthMK7wJP9iMa2OKvsQLeScup6rrSH54"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 23 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506243998"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO: "I guess we agree on one thing: the CDC is not a reliable source of information about vaccine risks.”<br /> NWO: "I quoted the vaccine injuries listed on the CDC’s list of acknowledge vaccine injuries"</p> <p>Why do you quote sources that (according to you) are unreliable?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gtWK4lD15r1nFz6TTsoD1mrWqHr02EhhLuz9oDhsCcY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506245345"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In the interest of Credit where credit is due -</p> <p>The list I posted at #48 is from Craig Egan. He developed the list, and took it to the Vaxxed bus, and issued the same simple challange I issued to NWOR, with the same results. </p> <p>Anti-vaxers will not admit that there is a disease or condition that vaccines cannot cause, including Lycanthropy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="qV_gBI1ZT5U7QQBRT-0MAkElOL5BONSHiD9LWdF0CUw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506252429"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hey, "Let's build bridges" Johnny is back! Here's a list of possible vaccine injuries from the CDC link you provided, and from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Table. Other types of vaccine injuries have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, but it's a start. Which of them do you agree can be caused by vaccines? Let's match them up to your list of vaccine injuries alleged by those crazy anti-vaxxers, and build some bridges. :)</p> <p>Anaphylaxis<br /> Blood in the urine or stool<br /> Brachial Neuritis<br /> Coma<br /> Chronic arthritis<br /> Death<br /> Deafness<br /> Disseminated varicella vaccine strain viral disease<br /> Encephalopathy or encephalitis<br /> Fainting<br /> Guillain-Barré Syndrome<br /> High fever, over 105°F<br /> Inflammation of the stomach or intestines<br /> Intussusception (a type of bowel blockage)<br /> Long-term seizures<br /> Lowered consciousness<br /> Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach ache<br /> Non-stop crying, for 3 hours or more<br /> Paralytic Polio<br /> Permanent brain damage.<br /> Pneumonia<br /> Seizure (jerking or staring)<br /> Serious allergic reaction<br /> Severe long-lasting shoulder pain/difficulty moving the arm<br /> Severe nervous system reaction<br /> Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration<br /> Swelling, severe pain and/or bleeding in the arm where the shot was given<br /> Thrombocytopenic purpura<br /> Vasovagal syncope<br /> Vaccine Strain Measles Viral Disease<br /> Vaccine Strain Polio Viral Infection<br /> Varicella vaccine strain viral reactivation</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AC-D43ifJboRfymyadUyGd_d4oiIyDnGEjJ0Ly-Igdg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506253457"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Only if you'd be willing to accept the rate by which those severe adverse reactions have been confirmed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RUOZb7Xro2XGQATr6ZWxClRgWzVTf_hDp4lISf6dP2w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506254098"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Give it up, Ginny. You lost.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KQHG-z1Vsd1SkEZWQ4qBqLOGaau0CB155iEMzNQQGdI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506255171"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lawrence, Johnny did not list any rates by which those alleged vaccine injuries occurred on his list. I'm trying to create an equivalent list to help Johnny build bridges, so let's stick to the issue presented.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XGrORnh0ofWHOZ9E7tx1WY7UuMQU6wiCDndGDx_sUjc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506255710"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>About 1 in 1 million or less.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="62UtOH7JoedoiCkeMXACSjlouiGNCEeFXWXlDhZomyc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506257645"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Good news, Johnny! I've revised my list to include *some* of the non-table injuries that have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. They sure don't make those easy to look up, so the list is still not complete. It includes: Possible vaccine injuries from the CDC link you provided; injuries listed on the Vaccine Injury Table; and some of the other vaccine injuries that have been compensated in the VICP. I can already see we're closer than ever to building those bridges you wanted to build. :)</p> <p>Acute Inflammatory Neurological Injury<br /> Acute Demyelinating Encephalomyelitis (ADEM)<br /> Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis<br /> Acute Hemorrhagic Leukoencephalomyelitis (AHLE)<br /> Anaphylaxis<br /> Bell's Palsy<br /> Blood in the urine or stool<br /> Brachial Neuritis<br /> Brachial Plexopathy<br /> Cardiac arrest<br /> Cellulitis<br /> Cerebral Palsy<br /> Cognitive Delays<br /> Coma<br /> Connective Tissue Disease<br /> Chronic arthritis<br /> Complex Regional Pain Syndrome<br /> Death<br /> Deafness<br /> Demyelinating Polyneuropathy<br /> Disseminated varicella vaccine strain viral disease<br /> Encephalopathy or encephalitis<br /> Fainting<br /> Frozen Shoulder Syndrome<br /> Guillain-Barré Syndrome<br /> Hearing Loss<br /> High fever, over 105°F<br /> Inflammation of the stomach or intestines<br /> Inflammatory Tendinitis<br /> Intussusception (a type of bowel blockage)<br /> Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis<br /> Kleine-Levin Syndrome<br /> Leukocytoclastic Vasculitis<br /> Long-term seizures<br /> Lowered consciousness<br /> Lumbosacral Raduculoplexus Neuropathy (LSRPN)<br /> Lymphangitis<br /> Miller Fisher Syndrome<br /> Multiple Sclerosis<br /> Multi-Organ Failure<br /> Myelopathy<br /> Myositis<br /> Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach ache<br /> Neuritis<br /> Neuralgic Amyotrophy<br /> Neurologic Injuries<br /> Neuromyelitis Optica (NMO)<br /> Non-stop crying, for 3 hours or more<br /> Optic Neuritis<br /> Overactive Immune Response<br /> Paralytic Polio<br /> Paresthesias/Small Fiber Neuropathy<br /> Parsonage Turner Syndrome<br /> Peripheral Neuropathy<br /> Permanent brain damage.<br /> Pneumonia<br /> Polyneuropathy<br /> Psoriasiform Dermatitis<br /> Radial Nerve Injury<br /> Seizure (jerking or staring)<br /> Serious allergic reaction<br /> Severe long-lasting shoulder pain/difficulty moving the arm<br /> Severe nervous system reaction<br /> Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration<br /> Spinal Cord Myelitis<br /> Strep A infection<br /> Swelling, severe pain and/or bleeding in the arm where the shot was given<br /> Systemic Inflammatory Response<br /> Thrombocytopenic purpura<br /> Tinnitus<br /> Toxic Shock<br /> Transverse Myelitis<br /> Vasovagal syncope<br /> Vaccine Strain Measles Viral Disease<br /> Vaccine Strain Polio Viral Infection<br /> Varicella vaccine strain viral reactivation<br /> Ventricular Fibrillation<br /> Vision Loss</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SEnrbsPIV1kEJ4TamqbTOUQGNazJtF_zz1twn1KSppQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506258861"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The vaccine court has compensated BILLIONS of dollars for "vasovagal syncope" and "fainting" alone.</p> <p>Stop the madness!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wjixNB0mFxDZjOikkSJzjZ9BlAfBtKlKSXnoe3UPjBs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506265164"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "Paralytic Polio"</p> <p>Lather, rinse, repeat. So what vaccine is that listed for, and is it on the present American pediatric schedule.</p> <p>NWO Troll continues to whine: "ohnny did not list any rates by which those alleged vaccine injuries occurred on his list."</p> <p>Except they were clearly noted on that CDC page he linked to. You just have to actually read the words with a modicum of comprehension.</p> <p>So, how are you doing with that little math story problem I gave you about the NVICP compensated claims versus total number of vaccines given? Did you forget all math you learned since third grade?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Jn9j8Zhek6EX9koETPQrI6WfaTDayUp-P6yT2RYlbIE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506265678"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The list I posted over 50 comments ago, 18 by Ginny, wasn't about rates. The question was 'is there anything on this list that vaccines <b>don't</b> cause?'.</p> <p>So far, Ginny hasn't listed a single thing, even the really easy one on the list.</p> <p>I believe our non-USAian friends call that an 'own goal'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LrDKdCoMNZOAxdnUuLd2bMt_NJrmcHwjEIHQDcp2OEk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506266955"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny, I see you are moving on to back flips to avoid answering the question you raised yourself. That is, the extent to which you agree or disagree with the list of vaccine injuries you posted. Yet you demand I answer the question you will not, while claiming to be "trying to build bridges." It's clear that many of the items on your list are vaccine injuries that have actually been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation System. Yet still, you refuse to answer your own question. You're quite a deceiver, although fortunately, not very good at it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y4sEzFvgYg1-nQF4F4BwJu1jxv47DeJUQ0S48jZ9Uxo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506268169"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "That is, the extent to which you agree or disagree with the list of vaccine injuries you posted."</p> <p>Changing the question to what you want it to be, is <b>not</b> answering his question. It is a diversion, which is a form of lying. It is you being a deceiver. </p> <p>Though quite an incompetent one, since the pertinent information has been given to you multiple times. But either you just choose to ignore the links and direct quotes, or you just do not understand how to read them.</p> <p>"It’s clear that many of the items on your list are vaccine injuries that have actually been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation System."</p> <p>So what? You keep saying that like it holds some form of scientific weight, it does not. It is obvious that you do not understand the definition of the word "settlement" when it comes to the NVICP, nor do you understand the significance of the ratio between the compensated claims and total number of given vaccines.</p> <p>So have you figured out how to use a calculator to get that ratio?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FNiqXYN1WtFu1wbi-C4mMKGesH9B3drLIXm75nIpqrQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506268201"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, there's no need to reiterate your point over and over. I get it: the oral polio vaccine is given to children around the world, but it isn't given to children in the US anymore, and therefore, the injuries it can cause are irrelevant. Don't blame me if it's still on the Vaccine Injury Table--take it up with the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program if it outrages you so much.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0q62uriWmH-peLx5CW2UVYJNSygbmt4QT7B9BhD123E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506268614"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, if you're going to fight Johnny's battles for him, just answer the question Johnny raised but won't answer himself. Identify the injuries on the list that you agree vaccines can actually cause; or state that you believe vaccines can't cause any injuries. It's not complicated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e3qT2Hb01Fn2nLjmFdj8T9kmZebo97_ze7RD0SLnYHw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506270796"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The sad part is that Teh NWAD isn't even a real antivaxxer; she's just some freakish hit-and-run, amateur crank who managed to get a nod from Mr. "CDC Whistleblower has been removed from the CDC premises by security" Rappoport.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TVFrlqwX6RFLJob2-d3lV9Hq1Cp8P_XRNY1cQED7Y0o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365908" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506271926"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Good news, Johnny! I’ve revised my list to include *some* of the non-table injuries that have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. They sure don’t make those easy to look up, so the list is still not complete.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh, dear, Gindo, you looked something up from "them" but didn't bother with the simple issue of case names and numbers? Is this how you draft memoranda, too?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365908&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dqJmb8Xynpv2osklETObd6YwjCNJX04FXQ8SbQDtKLo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365908">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365909" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506279388"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO: Do you agree that drug addiction, ADD and allergies are also vaccine injuries? Also, would you like to explain why most people who claim to have vaccine injured children seem to have issues with reality and generally dislike their children? At this point, anti-vax seems a lot like a coverup for actively hating one's children. Or maybe it's just kids in general that they dislike.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365909&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iXZjguos_xvZ1pNBwNMvFQEZO5tG9XPxUWonWbfulRE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365909">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365910" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506280661"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: " I get it: the oral polio vaccine is given to children around the world, but it isn’t given to children in the US anymore,"</p> <p>And your evidence for this is? Or are you just making assumptions. Anyway, you are using an American program with only American cases. Don't change the subject. </p> <p>So what if it is still on the table. Only an idiot would not evaluate that table as noted historical data to encompass all of the NVICP statistics. </p> <p>Now where are those answers to my little math story subject.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365910&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WYLrqbyQpoOpTsVUsCNVz5AUo24WnpCrEWeGF5oIMM0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365910">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365911" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506281019"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>PGPig, people who turn on their allies if they cease to be useful are a particular kind of creepy. Everyone with a vaccine injured child was once pro-vaccine--that's why their child was vaccinated. The kind of parents you would be fawning over in your online comments, praising them for being responsible and caring parents because they vaccinate their child. Then their child is injured by a vaccine and you turn on them, accusing them of disliking or even hating their own children. You really are repugnant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365911&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ABJyE4l89oXFFQmmTp0vjsbonFTVtLw8NEPTWplk1WM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365911">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365912" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506281669"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, according to the CDC's page entitled Polio Vaccination: "OPV has not been used in the United States since 2000 but is still used in many parts of the world." Is the CDC lying again, or are you lying again, or do you just not know what you're talking about again?</p> <p>According to the Polio Global Eradication Initiative: "Oral poliovirus vaccines (OPV) are the predominant vaccine used in the fight to eradicate polio." Waddayaknow--sounds like the CDC wasn't lying.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365912&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HNOSJP7PsegvmrVDismY8NrkaibmRuj-ENuk9Mnjd4M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365912">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365913" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506281782"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>How many "vaccine injured" children do you have again, Gindo? I'm just trying to calibrate some sort of creepiness scale here, now that you've thoughtlessly invoked one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365913&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="umQf6Ly1KTpWUkP06HtCblTFLtjpVT0J3JdQutZc0vQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365913">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365914" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506283856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO: Nope, I just call them as I see them. Most anti-vax people have a shaky enough relationship with the truth that it is doubtful whether they had their kids vaccinated in the first place, and a number of them have turned around and blamed their PARENTs for their kid's problems. Which suggests that they have the problem. I got no time for the problems of queen bee meanies and their drones. They need to grow up and leave high school. (You too. Speaking of creepy, if you're a 'grandmother' why do you act like a high school sophomore on a sugar bender?)</p> <p>As for the few parents that I know, including one of my sibs, my influence isn't that great, but I do try to be responsible for myself. I got my DTAP and will likely be getting my flu vaccine this year, because an adult should care about the kids in their life, even if they aren't the parents of those kids.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365914&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yttTU0uoanoFHQTq9GrasT0oTQ651g_72noFaNBmKjk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365914">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365915" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506286520"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll, </p> <p>What parts of the world? And why do you care about them?<br /> Perhaps you should do your pearl clutching at the World Health Organization, and not here. </p> <p>Though here you should provide the answers to my simple math story problem based on that table of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. What is the ratio of total number of given vaccines versus compensated claims? What is the definition of the legal word "settlement"? What does it mean about the safely of vaccines?</p> <p>These are questions you seem to not to be able to answer. Explain why.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365915&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hNpB_xmJ4o4jcC9MKwVFqCuwRKRZkmtzU41cZJkZ89k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365915">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365916" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506287741"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, in order for your simple math problem to yield any potentially useful information, we would need to know what percentage of vaccine injuries actually result in a claim being filed in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Given that the number of vaccine injuries even reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System is at most 10%, and at the least less than 1%, I assume the percentage of vaccine injury claims filed in the VICP is considerably less.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365916&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="blOCoH7NOy7CqaNIaooyEG2TchC_ztYx4kph_plXalg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365916">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365917" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506288546"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's too bad that your legal skills are apparently so atrophied that you can't get in on those guaranteed fees and have to settle for being a low-rent nut, Gindo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365917&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xL6o8M_nDlhWdMYI7uaEM5P8-5DqUan7wWN5D4CJRdY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365917">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365918" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506288735"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>PGPig, your influence on friends and family isn't that great? Gee, what a shocker! I would have thought your charm and respect would win people over right and left. :D Of course, given your own shaky relationship with truth, it's doubtful you are actually getting your vaccines as you claim. However, if you are, I wish you luck with them. Fingers crossed!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365918&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hoyziNkF0nSdPTjV2qmI6beAOQci4HZCcEwie_HcRCA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365918">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365919" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506291386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><a href="https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Find_A_Lawyer&amp;template=/Customsource/MemberDirectory/MemberDirectoryDetail.cfm&amp;ContactID=157452">VIrginia</a> <a>Stoner</a> (and I hope you get Google juice from this), the only battle here is the battle against ignorance. I'd bet real dollars that you don't understand this, but anyone can scroll up and see what we have here is science, logic, honesty, along with a heapin' helpin' of what ever it is you bring to the party, you pile of $hit sculpted into a quasi-human form. </p> <p>You could have declared victory by saying that you do not believe that vaccines can turn people into wolves, but you know that anti-vaxers arguments are so thin that the day may come that they have to say 'what about lycanthropy? where's the study about that?'</p> <p>You're dead to me. If thinking you won gets you thru the night, you're welcome to it, I try to not deny children their simple comforts. But every time the words 'ethics' or 'honesty' cross your mind, you will know "That's not how Virginia Stoner rolls".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365919&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vrrovhtgQJk5SkOeI4JegooZ8ad4fjCeBs7aJgmPd8A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Johnny (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365919">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365920" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506292991"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Of course, given your own shaky relationship with truth, it’s doubtful you are actually getting your vaccines as you claim.</p></blockquote> <p>Oh, yay, the Gerg routine. Speaking of shaky relationships, Ginny, it would really be a lot more interesting if you explain your issues with gravity. It's an ecumenical joint.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365920&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iL4G9FYVHP4uuBvxAkFuP92TH-9qT312mDHhxQ_JZIw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365920">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365921" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506293098"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO: Oh, that's rich. A Trump fangirl calling ME a liar! Honey, you wouldn't know what the truth was if it sat on you. You think the Earth is flat!</p> <p> And you're kinda proving my point about your age. Why don't you go outside for a while?</p> <p>I mean, seriously, why would I lie about something as mundane as getting vaccines. When you grow up, you'll see that the world is not nearly as complicated and dangerous as you're believing it is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365921&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="a3ocf-QtX8Osbk63UB20e3QiAe6UQbJbpnHPHrYl0Vg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365921">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365922" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506293665"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I bet a mouse could pass the bar exam for Texas.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365922&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RsYEFBCSkGqUuSg_cf43NMg08hj4NI7ly84lw7t8jbY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365922">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365923" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506293742"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Johnny, you are a monumental hypocrite and coward, hiding behind your online anonymity because you know you are deceiving people. I'm dead to you because I ensnared you in your own web of deception. That you would try to defame me to hide your own corruption is not a surprise. I'm sure you'll be back under one of your other profiles to do more of the same.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365923&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-v5D7iepzV2JV-SiAtkVBD0WhojkYJTauJLBgu4YwwE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365923">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365924" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506294417"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, kewl, Gindo is back on the Julian is Science Mom routine or whatever was in her Xtranormal effort. The "profiles" bit is a nice touch.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365924&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="I0kt7NxCKGzGNz1nsqkPlEBvi6VJfSyctosGW92aasU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365924">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365925" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506294592"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Poor PGPig. Resorting to condescending "honeys" and that pathetic "flat earth" psy-op to undermine my credibility. Sounds like it's you who belongs on the playground. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365925&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fTSqQGtgb5x2CjUW2g19-lSff3IMgDptz8Y9JbfaaRk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365925">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365926" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506298309"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Psy-op? No, I was just stating your beliefs. It's kind of hard to undermine your credibility, as you don't have any.</p> <p> Grow up and act your age and maybe I'll think about not insulting you. But for now, you make a fun chew toy, much like Mr. Dochniak. If you want respect, again, maybe stop acting stupid. And go outside once in a while, you aren't a vampire.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365926&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vcp7FgYIcULCV-uGQgF97zRkOGDBRM-L1txMVSX_Ok4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365926">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365927" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506299240"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWOR # 124:</p> <blockquote><p>psy-op to undermine my credibility.</p></blockquote> <p>Nobody can do nearly as much to undermine your credibility as you have already done on your own.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365927&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7Xd2FIMulE0etiP8d4W6_1w5699PCNNSdDT-4EV0b20"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Se Habla Espol (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365927">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365928" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506299500"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The discussion has moved on a bit, but keep checking PubPeer, the blots seem to have been significantly manipulated. In 4C there are mirror imaged bands and 4D is mostly 4B flipped and with slightly different exposure.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365928&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="70rP9ofZyEb9SQw_kYXUQX7ENj5LM_6CRa64kYlTeYk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Catherina (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365928">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365929" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506300160"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>PGPig, I guess that means if don't think the earth is flat, which I don't, then it is you who have no credibility. Do you purport to be a psychic, or are you just a liar? Either way, whatever credibility you might have had just flew out the window. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365929&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_0lruBgVII_r5F8g0XALcdjVcEUcoZS4gzy2Dcwbi_c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365929">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365930" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506300419"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "Chris, in order for your simple math problem to yield any potentially useful information, we would need to know what percentage of vaccine injuries actually result in a claim being filed in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program."</p> <p>Um, yeah. That is exactly what that simple math word problem shows! So just calculate the ratio from that database. I actually gave you the numbers, why are you refusing to to answer the question!?</p> <p>What are you afraid of?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365930&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VxlA1SeAfl1ighofTAkW80WJRgS0kXQlyD7ptk13xDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365930">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365931" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506302856"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chris, are you referring to this "simple math word problem"? </p> <p>"The data first column is the total number of vaccines given in the stated time period. Now run your finger over to the number to the total compensated claims. Now divide the first by the second number."</p> <p>Where, exactly, in this "simple math word problem" do you account for the fact that most vaccine injuries do not result in a claim being filed in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program at all? </p> <p>Your "simple math word problem" assumes 100% of vaccine injuries result in a claim being filed in the VICP. That's not realistic. The percentage of vaccine injuries reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System is somewhere between less that 1% and 10%. Even the CDC acknowledges it is less than 10%. How could only 1%-10% of vaccine injuries be reported to VAERS, but 100% be filed as claims in the VICP? Makes no sense.</p> <p>You can't just ignore relevant data because you don't have it. Unless you work for the CDC. ;)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365931&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fleUBTlMZLwSvCnJRadt8We8kUvKMSshXL-BrYn3TGo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365931">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365932" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506303373"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Troll: "Where, exactly, in this “simple math word problem” do you account for the fact that most vaccine injuries do not result in a claim being filed in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program at all?"</p> <p>Except you are using its table as a point of reference, and all else. Your excused proves all. You don't like the answer...</p> <p>... therefore you have nothing.</p> <p>From now on, since you refuse to do my simple math word problem from the NVICP statistics, you are not allowed to bring it up again. </p> <p>If you do try to bring up the NVICP table or statistics after that last comment without answering my simple math problem based on it... you will be considered a hypocrite.</p> <p>Seriously, VAERS? That is your excuse? That is just is the most pathetic excuse for not being able to do a simple fourth grade division calculation ever.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365932&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KEghxCsLQzc8HStRnc8B5gZr8qdeymhZepXy5x4AvnE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365932">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365933" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506304561"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LOL. I think you need to get some sleep, Chris. You're not making sense. This whole thread was about Johnny's list of injuries alleged to be caused by vaccines, and trying in vain to determine which ones he agreed with and which he disputed. His list contained nothing about incidence rates. </p> <p>A lot of parents don't even know about the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Or they never associate their child's death or serious injury with vaccination because they have been trained to believe vaccines are safe, and their doctor never mentions the possibility. Or they find out about the VICP or the likelihood of vaccine injury too late, after the 3 year statute of limitations has run. Or they just don't have the heart to endure years of contentious litigation over it, especially if their child has died.</p> <p>If you were honest, you would admit that the percentage of vaccine injury claims actually filed in the VICP is extremely low--likely far less than 1%. But I guess that's asking too much.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365933&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KiblsYqVFnhkT-sUZJLLc6F46__s1Clw9lN7wihcFFQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365933">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365934" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506307001"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter #110:</p> <blockquote><p>Everyone with a vaccine injured child they wrongly believe to be harmed by vaccines was once pro-vaccine</p></blockquote> <p>FTFY.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365934&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z9vxS1MI7QfUBwM3xbxRc0WOhUyhf8jV1hxCywA9GBw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 24 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365934">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365935" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506316014"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>When asked what vaccine anti-vaxers do actually support, they won't even name one....including the Rabies vaccine.</p> <p>They are hopeless.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365935&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YGrnYFP4bgs75ZCVx4JBBH4ref-pbqNlFujkVY22KTg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365935">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365936" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506332422"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Really, Lawrence? When asked what vaccine injuries actually occur, not a single pro-vaxxer on this blog would even name one...not even encephalitis. </p> <p>Y'all are hopeless. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365936&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="knTfTZjR3EfaORNBggVH3B_QUkWap48nuA16apFnuAo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365936">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365937" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506337471"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWOR: if you tell us which of Lawrence's list of health issues are actually due to vaccines, we'll tell you which vaccine injuries actually occur. HINT: gunshot wounds, although found in VAERS and manufacturer inserts, are not vaccine injuries.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365937&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VAezH3QaN33Leo8k-6qxtgLG8szamObccH6r8MdZ3bc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365937">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365938" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506339690"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, you mean Johnny's list? ;) All of the health issues on his list that also appear on my list of injuries that are ether on the Vaccine Injury Table, or have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, can actually be caused by vaccines. Your turn.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365938&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M2xAAtgMCd-2wkkIz1UGGAMhcC5ZfAd2zXScHPecF8g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365938">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365939" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506341695"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO: Honestly you believe every other conspiracy theory, so I'm surprised you don't believe that one. I'm pretty sure you think the moon landing is a hoax. And like I said, you have no credibility, and you never ever did. Have you ever told the truth about anything in your life?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365939&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N-e0wrWqSqI5xDPCCMEqn-X7bXK7FvOnzSRjC_Jt7sk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365939">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365940" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506342481"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Also, because I'm morbidly curious, how did you "pass" the bar exam and get your degree? Did you just buy the degree and the pass whole sale?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365940&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="r6noHfAXqb1KlenWSaVoM6Y25ql8H--RFaH7NGTbnYo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365940">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365941" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506343744"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’m pretty sure you think the moon landing is a hoax.<br /></p><blockquote> <p>Gindo is quite reticent when it comes to the "content" of her Y—be "channel." I find this somewhat odd, because the whole trip, as well instantiated here, is merely off-topic attention whoring.</p> <p>Maybe Rappoport has some sort of loyalty-points system in which one can redeem Pink Flamingos–esque "rewards."</p></blockquote> </blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365941&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mExYfYKJrHcV5ZbNl_DjRp_kt15HIlgpY2I7zO_bygE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365941">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365942" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506369440"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, you haven't forgotten about our agreement, have you?</p> <p>"NWOR: if you tell us which of Lawrence’s list of health issues are actually due to vaccines, we’ll tell you which vaccine injuries actually occur."</p> <p>I answered your question. I'm not sure who "we" is, but since you made the agreement, I guess it is up to you to answer. Are there any health conditions in my list in #98 you contend cannot be caused by vaccines?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365942&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uddQPr6Few0xvLoELHwmb_eNUyC9Bvm96idx3iQqosw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365942">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365943" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506379600"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're going to hurt yourself with those goalposts, Pruno.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365943&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J1fVfXKkTJPFJCpOA0GotZj15RDhIgLBGx0RzpSy3ao"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 25 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365943">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365944" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506401911"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'd say Lycanthropy cannot be caused by a vaccine, wouldn't you agree?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365944&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1QQR6az7mZFaXMrZspSehzMImaAsKd_3d65Lz2o6RIE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365944">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365945" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506406784"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, NWOR. I have a life, and didn't get on the computer last night. So...Johnny's list of things that antivaxxers claim are caused by vaccines - here's 4 items.<br /><i>AIDS<br /> Alzheimer’s<br /> Cancer<br /> Cerebral Palsy</i></p> <p>Add to that homosexuality.</p> <p>Now, give us some proof that vaccines actually cause any of those items.</p> <p>Now, to take a few from YOUR list:</p> <p>Lowered consciousness<br /> Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach ache<br /> Lumbosacral Raduculoplexus Neuropathy (LSRPN)</p> <p>None of these are life threatening. Please give us the NVICP case numbers so we can see that the courts actually compensated someone for these items. Because you are known to just pull stuff out of your nether regions. And no, I don't have time to do the research - since you posted these things, you should easily be able to provide the case numbers. And that's your claim - that the court COMPENSATED people for these items.</p> <p>Remember, simply reporting things to VAERS does not mean they were compensated for. After all, my sister (who faints every time she gets a shot of any kind) would be compensated if this were so. And I would have been compensated the last time I got the flu shot, if I'd bothered to report nausea as a problem.</p> <p>Ball's in your court, Ginny. I have a busy day at work, but I'll try to check back later and see what actual data you give.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365945&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PEshWgpZLux72YMeL9DT6u5raYIk9tXuvTainWNWCa0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365945">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365946" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506407956"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sometimes I feel like Captain Kirk, trying to navigate through a fierce ion storm of crank magnetism.</p> <p>Before this morning I'd never heard of Dr. Christian Bogner (an antivax ob-gyn up Orac's way). He has some....interesting theories.</p> <p>"Why is not everyone getting vaccinated become autistic?"</p> <p>"The short answer to this question: Glyphosate"</p> <p><a href="http://drbogner.com/vaccine-mechanisms-in-autism/">http://drbogner.com/vaccine-mechanisms-in-autism/</a></p> <p>I would try and explain this, but I got dizzy navigating through Bogner's "Pac-Man" microglia cartoons.</p> <p>He's a self-described Former Chief Surgeon, so he must know what he's talking about. Oh, and he's helped develop a cannabinoid spray, which surely is good for what ails you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365946&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mTY8Qy90wNcktr4JArcLHvVkJJJpUrryU5Q6JeDUV1U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365946">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365947" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506412249"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stop trying to weasel out of your deal, MI Dawn. “NWOR: if you tell us which of Lawrence’s list of health issues are actually due to vaccines, we’ll tell you which vaccine injuries actually occur.” Post your list.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365947&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MrwKpcz_5UONDouSHexLppxtaos93hAEsd-COXBaMx8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365947">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365948" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506412736"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, I revised the list in #98 to include ONLY those health conditions that were either listed on the Vaccine Injury Table as of 9/10/2017, and/or have actually received compensation awards in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The list is not yet complete. Again, to the extent these items overlap with Johnny's list, I agree vaccines can cause them. Tell us whether you agree or disagree that these health conditions can be caused by vaccines.</p> <p> Acute Inflammatory Neurological Injury<br /> Acute Demyelinating Encephalomyelitis (ADEM)<br /> Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis<br /> Acute Hemorrhagic Leukoencephalomyelitis (AHLE)<br /> Anaphylaxis<br /> Bell's Palsy<br /> Brachial Neuritis<br /> Brachial Plexopathy<br /> Cardiac arrest<br /> Cellulitis<br /> Cerebral Palsy<br /> Cognitive Delays<br /> Connective Tissue Disease<br /> Chronic arthritis<br /> Complex Regional Pain Syndrome<br /> Death<br /> Demyelinating Polyneuropathy<br /> Disseminated varicella vaccine strain viral disease (Removed in 2017 from the Table)<br /> Encephalopathy or encephalitis<br /> Frozen Shoulder Syndrome<br /> Guillain-Barré Syndrome<br /> Hearing Loss<br /> Inflammatory Tendinitis<br /> Intussusception<br /> Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis<br /> Kleine-Levin Syndrome<br /> Leukocytoclastic Vasculitis<br /> Lumbosacral Raduculoplexus Neuropathy (LSRPN)<br /> Lymphangitis<br /> Miller Fisher Syndrome<br /> Multiple Sclerosis<br /> Multi-Organ Failure<br /> Myelopathy<br /> Myositis<br /> Neuritis<br /> Neuralgic Amyotrophy<br /> Neurologic Injuries<br /> Neuromyelitis Optica (NMO)<br /> Optic Neuritis<br /> Overactive Immune Response<br /> Paralytic Polio<br /> Paresthesias/Small Fiber Neuropathy<br /> Parsonage Turner Syndrome<br /> Peripheral Neuropathy<br /> Polyneuropathy<br /> Psoriasiform Dermatitis<br /> Radial Nerve Injury<br /> Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration (Removed in 2017 from the Table)<br /> Spinal Cord Myelitis<br /> Strep A infection<br /> Systemic Inflammatory Response<br /> Thrombocytopenic purpura<br /> Tinnitus<br /> Toxic Shock<br /> Transverse Myelitis<br /> Vasovagal syncope (Removed in 2017 from the Table)<br /> Vaccine Strain Measles Viral Disease<br /> Vaccine Strain Polio Viral Infection<br /> Varicella vaccine strain viral reactivation (Removed in 2017 from the Table)<br /> Ventricular Fibrillation<br /> Vision Loss</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365948&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y-0iaHi7-FBfuBTjGDQfG4_92YNrfymqFqnBIhgXfTE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365948">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365949" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506414931"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Nope. You haven't answered my question. Table injuries are understood to *possibly* be caused by the vaccines, and the NVICP relies on less proof than a court of law that the vaccine *MAY* have caused the injury. </p> <p>We don't deny vaccines can cause problems. What we ARE saying is that they don't cause all the problems that antivaxxers claim they do. Do you disagree with that?</p> <p>At least your list doesn't include autism, which the antivaxxers claim is the major problem.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365949&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SoOvSsEHbZjJG8puPjDCoCAWSwMIZIusyGDYrAeukJ0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365949">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365950" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506415113"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh, and let me say...compensation does not imply the vaccine caused the problem. It simply means that it is POSSIBLE/PROBABLE. NOT that it is CERTAIN.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365950&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dQml7n3vBxCw45SkQ1HmhWdC4aG2WgQ29GMOhTYLl5E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365950">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365951" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506415622"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn writes (#149),</p> <p>At least your list doesn’t include autism, which the antivaxxers claim is the major problem.</p> <p>MJD says,</p> <p>In fairness, the list will eventually include allergy-induced regressive autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365951&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_8DzMdwJ3aGfahicPO1RqjeBcweOLA00rIG2GLTr8Ms"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael J. Dochniak (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365951">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365952" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506415702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, STOP WEASELING. You asked me to "tell us which of Lawrence’s list of health issues are actually due to vaccines." I told you my opinion on this issue as you asked. You said if I did so, "we’ll tell you which vaccine injuries actually occur." In your opinion too, of course. List the conditions that, in your opinion, vaccines can cause, like you said you would. </p> <p>As for autism, many cases of vaccine injuries that include autism have been compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The claimed injury, and the injury compensated, however, was encephalopathy or seizure disorder. So yes, IMO vaccines can cause autism. Unanwered Questions: A Review of Compensated Cases of Vaccine-Induced Brain Injury, Pace Environmental Law Review, vol. 28, no. 2, 2011.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365952&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="infkYzZybXQu0qJaa_JFxTaDOz_z1xSxGcVESb0GMpQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365952">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365953" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506420504"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@MJD #151:</p> <blockquote><p>In fairness, the list will eventually include allergy-induced regressive autism.</p></blockquote> <p>1) No it won't since it has been confirmed that vaccines do not cause autism.<br /> 2) Your perseverating on this has gone through boring and tedious, and is now utterly tiresome and banal.<br /> Just go away.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365953&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5iq1WGWJ504uYU2RMzioD-T_cNuR6yYAc6TfXD5SJrM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365953">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365954" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506420558"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The author of this paper is a moron.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365954&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ctIZ9xQRY36h64vrT_yStGk0F5HjcEnt1HJyi8LUQ54"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kelsey Brennan (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365954">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365955" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506421042"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi orac</p> <p>Im glad you wrote about this study because aluminum adjuvant toxicity should be central to the debate about vaccine safety. </p> <p>You wrote:"aluminum salts have been used as effective adjuvants for many years now and have an excellent safety record."</p> <p>Can you please provide citations to support the safety of aluminum adjuvant? Particularly regarding neurological disorders and autism? </p> <p>When i search the scientific literature, i dont find any studies supporting the neurological safety of aluminum adjuvant. Instead i find papers like Jefferson 2004 or mitkus 2011. These studies are not designed to test neuro safety of al adjuvant, and have flaws or design choices that render them irrelevant to the question of neuro safety. </p> <p>In the scientific literature, aluminum adjuvant safety is often asserted with reference to its long history of use, but no citations are provided. Long history of use is not evidence for safety, especially for adverse outcomes that take months or years to manifest (like neuro disorders). Also, for most of its use history, al adjuvant dose was much smaller than today. </p> <p>Finally, there are no epidemiological studies of aluminum asjuvant (except the ecological study by shaw). </p> <p>So, please cite the studies that support the "excellent safety record" of aluminum adjuvant.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365955&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QBQBuW9hR6ChmOcBdd7_RZebmgsz73BFyfNAmEOugLw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine papers (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365955">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365957" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506421814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Heheh. One notes that VP was the one to whom I referred above, the antivaxer who emailed me not just one but TWO OR THREE times challenging me to write about this, telling me what a good study it is and how she would be cutting it a lot. What happened? Nothing to say about my deconstruction of this paper? All you have to say is this? After nearly nearly a week of silence, you appear, and when you finally appear, do you tell me how my analysis is fatally flawed and why? Of course not! Instead you zero on on a single sentence and ignore everything else.</p> <p>I am amused. My analysis must be pretty damned good.</p> <p>???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365957&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ow8SGK13jHEN2waIhPL3K80sPUTwCs-_lDeTBHTuNMs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365957">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365955#comment-1365955" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365956" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506421527"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter #152: LOL! An article with Mary Holland as one of the authors? Get real!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365956&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="l-SQg2vdfpkmOvFwRJ-b0fxDsltx7yNjPp8eapw4xkY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365956">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365958" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506422498"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost, ad hominem is the resort of children. If you have evidence that the vaccine injury awards examined in the paper authored by Holland and three other researchers did not, in fact, involve injuries including autism, then post it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365958&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Zhb2II7WbBjjo1oDZHBzkG5_LuIpXgZ0lFNSJdAAYz0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365958">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365959" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506422671"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi orac</p> <p>I just noticed your article today. No this is definitely not all i have to say on the matter. I will write more about it later. So dont draw conclusions just yet. And dont break your arm patting yourself on the back. There are several other reasoning errors and mistakes in your article and i will get to them. </p> <p>I think your assertion-without citation-of an "excellent safety record" for aluminum adjuvant, especially in the context of autism and/or neurological disorders is particularly egregious. So, can you please respond to this? </p> <p>The other issues will be addressed shortly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365959&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rRQ7awt03iICyY9xafo4cC0Ktyc_u1EqugFONYyfSGc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine papers (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365959">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365960" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506422871"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You just noticed it today? Oh, please. After your emailing me at least two times (maybe three, I don't remember for sure) in one day about this study, I call bullshit. But I do look forward to your comments. It's been a rough, depressing last few days, for a variety of reasons unrelated to the blog. I could use a good laugh.</p> <p>And is still strange that you didn't decide to lead with all those "flaws" you claim there are. Actually, no, it isn't.</p> <p>Here, I'll remind you of what you wrote to me on Sept. 19:</p> <blockquote><p>Hi Orac:</p> <p>Its me, VP from vaccinepapers.org!</p> <p>There is a new paper from the Shaw lab at UBC. They measured cytokine levels in brains of animals that received vaccine-relevant dosage of Al adjuvant as neonates. The brain was inflamed, and it had a pattern of inflammation matching inflammation present in human autism.</p> <p>Also, IL-6 levels were increased almost 5-fold. IL-6 causes autism-like behavioral abnormalities in animal models. Human studies also implicate IL-6 as a cause of autism.</p> <p>Males had greater brain inflammation than females. </p> <p>I hop3 you will write about this new study. We will be citing it a lot!</p> <p>cheers</p> <p>VP</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365960&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ypaKSpzFuHu9fJpzueg_Xbfsb4ItE05z7laI9jeTr6g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365960">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365959#comment-1365959" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1365997" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506459512"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Also, don't forget to address the charges of self-plagiarism and image manipulation. There's been some very suspicious stuff pointed out about the images in several of the figures:</p> <p><a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983">https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983</a></p> <p><a href="https://themadvirologist.blogspot.com/2017/09/does-recent-paper-by-shaw-really-show.html">https://themadvirologist.blogspot.com/2017/09/does-recent-paper-by-shaw…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365997&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Yk-83WbEKT46Ump-TG5IjvR3EYWbFSjrnzuor24i6YE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365997">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1365959#comment-1365959" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365961" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506422986"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter, I'm not going to pay $30 to some predatory publisher. Only the abstract was available, and I do not trust Mary Holland. Put her name into the search box up top to see why.<br /> The question of whether or not vaccines cause autism has been investigated into the ground. I went to Google Scholar and searched. The very first result was<br /><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367?cc%3Dy">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367?cc%3…</a><br /> The money quote from the abstract:</p> <blockquote><p>Five cohort studies involving 1,256,407 children, and five case-control studies involving 9,920 children were included in this analysis. The cohort data revealed no relationship between vaccination and autism (OR: 0.99; 95% CI: 0.92 to 1.06) or ASD (OR: 0.91; 95% CI: 0.68 to 1.20), nor was there a relationship between autism and MMR (OR: 0.84; 95% CI: 0.70 to 1.01), or thimerosal (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.77 to 1.31), or mercury (Hg) (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.93 to 1.07). Similarly the case-control data found no evidence for increased risk of developing autism or ASD following MMR, Hg, or thimerosal exposure when grouped by condition (OR: 0.90, 95% CI: 0.83 to 0.98; p = 0.02) or grouped by exposure type (OR: 0.85, 95% CI: 0.76 to 0.95; p = 0.01). Findings of this meta-analysis suggest that vaccinations are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder. Furthermore, the components of the vaccines (thimerosal or mercury) or multiple vaccines (MMR) are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder.</p></blockquote> <p>Vaccines do NOT cause autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365961&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="micfsqCKNhuhbwtChE0jlN-gSaur3I9lujkTv27OdGw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365961">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365962" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506423972"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost, you don't have to pay $30 to "some predatory publisher" to read the paper--it's available to the public for free. <a href="http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&amp;context=pelr">http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&amp;context…</a></p> <p>This investigation, published in a peer-reviewed law journal in 2011, found 83 cases of autism among those compensated for vaccine-induced brain damage in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365962&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xjudnv2CFXtmJFM1o3P__qBNTVF0yD10ldPowC-9S20"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365962">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365963" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506424930"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Once again, you show a complete lack of understanding of statistics and statistical analysis.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365963&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="07JZzOWEH2abBIsnWFTlI0HMXroD12Hhsen90rTcIyE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365963">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365964" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506425663"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So i downloaded the paper and perused it. I had to give up. The authors did so much <a href="https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions">JAQing Off</a> that it was clear they were not interested in researching the question honestly, but instead in insinuating that it is.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365964&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KQXxdMVqgZBGOeK3_HRRafwNt8jqtDw-YxOOyqA4CJ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365964">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365965" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506426988"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost, the authors found 83 cases of autism among those compensated for vaccine-induced brain damage in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. You have ZERO evidence their findings are not accurate. But you don't like the findings so you insinuate the authors are dishonest. It's a deceptive cop out.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365965&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-d3UyeQP-kzXU8MFoHFIosvukYWiMEljLRJzwJKUUkU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365965">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365966" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506427211"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Because you haven't bothered to read any of the judgements for those 83 cases.....</p> <p>Just like anti-vaxers don't bother to read the VAERS reports that they love to quote numbers on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365966&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M9YYcbYVd12WaKvZB7Xt_LQb5U966-Cwl97iu2vNDrA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365966">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365967" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506427551"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter:</p> <blockquote><p>[T]he authors found 83 cases of autism among those compensated for vaccine-induced brain damage in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.</p></blockquote> <p>And they tried to insinuate that the vaccines were responsible for causing those cases of autism, even though the six Test Cases in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings not only lost, but lost so badly that all five Appeals to higher courts saw the original verdicts upheld.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365967&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kaDQKgQWLjQ3X-ap2ADaQKC4ibTYewBCdHM2UD_ync8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365967">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365968" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506428073"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter wrote:<br /></p><blockquote>This investigation, published in a peer-reviewed law journal in 2011, found 83 cases of autism among those compensated for vaccine-induced brain damage in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.</blockquote> <p>The law clearly lags many years behind the scientific evidence, and the overwhelming evidence that alleged cases of vaccine-induced encephalopathy and “residual seizure disorder” are caused by pre-existing mutations rather than by vaccination began to accumulate only a decade ago. </p> <p>The 83 claims that you cited would likely not be compensated today, now that the scientific evidence is so clear. (Hint: these mutations can cause such syndromes in <i>unvaccinated laboratory animals.</i> So much for "A Shot in the Dark.") Accordingly, the US Court of Federal Claims has begun to deny such claims and even to require genotyping--at least insofar as checking for mutations in one particular gene (among many genes known to cause similar syndromes. See, for example:</p> <p><a href="http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/SMGOLKIEWICZSTONE041510.pdf">http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/SMGOLKIEWICZ…</a><br /><a href="https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010vv0704-144-0">https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010vv0704-144-0</a><br /><a href="https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010vv0394-136-0">https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010vv0394-136-0</a></p> <p>See also:<br /> --Berkovic SF et al. De-novo mutations of the sodium channel gene SCN1A in alleged vaccine encephalopathy: a retrospective study. Lancet Neurol. 2006 Jun;5(6):488-92.<br /> --Catarino CB et al. Dravet syndrome as epileptic encephalopathy: evidence from long-term course and neuropathology. Brain. 2011 Oct;134(Pt 10):2982-3010.<br /> --Garcia-Junco-Clemente P et al. Overexpression of calcium-activated potassium channels underlies cortical dysfunction in a model of PTEN-associated autism. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013 Nov 5;110(45):18297-302<br /> --Guglielmi L et al. Update on the implication of potassium channels in autism: K(+) channel autism spectrum disorder. Front Cell Neurosci. 2015 Mar 2;9:34.<br /> --Li BM et al. Autism in Dravet syndrome: prevalence, features, and relationship to the clinical characteristics of epilepsy and mental retardation. Epilepsy Behav. 2011 Jul;21(3):291-5<br /> --Okumura A et al. Acute encephalopathy in children with Dravet syndrome. Epilepsia. 2011 Nov 16.<br /> --Reyes IS et al. Alleged Cases of Vaccine Encephalopathy Rediagnosed Years Later as Dravet Syndrome. Pediatrics. 2011 Aug 15.<br /> --Schmunk G, Gargus J. Channelopathy pathogenesis in autism spectrum disorders. Front Genet. 2013 Nov 5;4:222.<br /> --Wiznitzer M. Dravet syndrome and vaccination: when science prevails over speculation. Lancet Neurol. 2010 Jun;9(6):559-61.<br /> --Wolff M et al. Severe myoclonic epilepsy of infants (Dravet syndrome): natural history and neuropsychological findings. Epilepsia. 2006;47 Suppl 2:45-8.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365968&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_U6975QY9p6FGOj9f_x9I0Qg2eMWsKeXkq04mvKRHGg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365968">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365969" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506428430"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Exactly - anti-vaxers ignore the Omnibus cases all the time....mostly because they don't understand them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365969&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m9HtdIL5nnSwPBF2Epk4-obqgN85wiLgQBkKsNkMk48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365969">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365970" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506429238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>One would think that NWOR would, as a lawyer, understand the very clear writings of the Special Masters. After all *I* understand them.</p> <p>Hey, NWOR: tell me why autism isn't on the list of table injuries, why EVERY case in the autism omnibus lost, and what Hannah Poling got compensated for. </p> <p>And you want to know what illnesses vaccines can cause that I will admit to: OK. Here's a few.</p> <p>Allergic reactions up to and including anaphylaxis, which may lead to death.<br /> The flu vaccine may lead to Guillan-Barre syndrome, although at a much lesser rate than the actual flu disease.<br /> Panderix (never given in the US) may have increased a tendency to narcolepsy in a specific population.</p> <p>Happy?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365970&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Tr87Quy878jw7xWUSTs9VUN8PbFjhZxMGTgyAfagSi8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365970">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365971" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506429411"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Could we please stop feeding the very repetitive and obviously clueless troll?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365971&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VTyuh5BLtqySnuH3Iku1LRQ0M_S-8vxppLCRScsyUVE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365971">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365972" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506429573"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost, not really. Autism is a behavioral diagnosis, based on the observations of certain symptoms. There is no objective physical test to identify autism. The symptoms are a manifestation of some other kind of underlying damage.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365972&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="23D1JT2883XrIhWOXkMJVzFpdjJKz5VATyiOf4UEc1c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365972">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365973" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506429922"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter:</p> <blockquote><p>The symptoms (of autism) are a manifestation of some other kind of underlying damage.</p></blockquote> <p>As someone with an official diagnosis of autism, find an erupting volcano and throw yourself into it. Autism is not brain damage, and is not caused by vaccination. Research shows a clear genetic cause of autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365973&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s23NAoKDBWsnVS4Fwd-A4P9b30GoSBYXMkKtdh47zXs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365973">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365974" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506430212"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, so you are contending that out of the 61 injuries listed in #148 (injuries that are on the Vaccine Injury Table, and that have actually received awards in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program), all but the follow 4 CANNOT be caused by vaccines?</p> <p>Allergic Reaction including anaphylaxis<br /> Death<br /> Guillain-Barré syndrome<br /> Narcolepsy</p> <p>Are you angling for a job at the vaccine court or something? :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365974&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-pD50IcUjrier_5cuKu76IGbHwzWdmum8QAIW-uRj0w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365974">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365975" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506430833"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost "Research shows a clear genetic cause of autism." Really? Are you one of those people who denies there is a recent epidemic of autism? Because it would be impossible for a genetic cause to suddenly explode within a few decades the way autism has.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365975&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="NKCV2f_usnP3dNrF7EzuWC6JPFlLOx-NjUgJCNofP8o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365975">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365976" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506430880"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Claiming that autism is "Brain Damage" allows anti-vaxers to treat those with autism as less than human....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365976&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="oguWFzsicR92pb8hDDKzqe4XF3iJ7LWl69tOUQHlc7E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365976">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365977" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506431194"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter:</p> <blockquote><p>Because it would be impossible for a genetic cause to suddenly explode within a few decades the way autism has.</p></blockquote> <p>But not for increased awareness, broadened diagnostic criteria, diagnostic substitution and previous underdiagnosis to make it look as if something had suddenly exploded instead of being previously under-recognised.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365977&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ufoKjJpNsx_vfgqQzRCQFw0_GX1LjhdaFPj7K3IjVSY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365977">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365978" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506431294"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWOR: No. I simply picked out the ones that I know can definitely be caused by vaccines. </p> <p>On the other hand, you obviously have never heard of expanded DSM criteria and diagnostic substitution which mostly accounts for your "'explosion". </p> <p>Anecdotally, I can personally name 5 people, 25 years and older, who would probably have autism spectrum diagnoses if they were born after 2000. They all fit the current DSM criteria. They definitely aren't brain damaged.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365978&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d-2SgCT0AkVy3xqYrYL84nWF5MhXf5ali8wvE71ZPxk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365978">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365979" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506431536"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Clarification: brain damage and autism are 2 very different diagnoses. People with autism range from "able to function independently in society" to "will never be able to perform self-care". But low IQ is NOT a standard of autism any more than any other health issues are.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365979&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="O6oOyYb01VhI2VPN-LFEM0-wLCa8TJkH9Aa-9oimAtk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MI Dawn (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365979">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365980" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506432142"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>MI Dawn, are you denying that any of the other 61 health conditions in #148 (health conditions listed on the Vaccine Injury Table and which have actually received awards in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) can be caused by vaccines?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365980&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Ib15aL8OA2An2SLXB1ZWAbz6NBzGSVKgIIfSEkg4oJc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365980">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365981" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506433086"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian Frost, it sounds like you and MI Dawn are denying that the incidence of autism has exploded in the last few decades--saying it's just a perception prompted by more expansive and better diagnoses. I've never heard of any longtime teachers who agree with that. They all seem to say there has been a very real and dramatic increase in the number of special needs children over the last couple of decades.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365981&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="V23mnJPmbLTfbPQNBkkpuqTIySAzoKcj6I37GC11x5w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365981">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365982" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506434886"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Another anti-vaxer who knows nothing about the way that the mentally-ill used to be treated in this country.</p> <p>Long-time teachers didn't see kids with autism in school, because they weren't sent to school....at least not normal ones.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365982&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4dVf2vaOG5jnNaUHfIxVW3TYPXQP_RgEgCyZ-D3dfN4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365982">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365983" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506436336"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lawrence, you claim to have superior expertise because you know something from Psych 101? If you think children today do not have any more neurodevelopmental or mental health disabilities than children did in 1980, try persuading with facts instead of condescension.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365983&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7hb6jR1rbDlyEyFE1hi5bxuZu-SYQb1fTkTfHQfDsE0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365983">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365984" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506436417"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You've obviously never heard of the American with Disabilities Act....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365984&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yDPUrN7Uuib-R-OSVI7o370-5Ehk4_IrjAuQ6eIaTIU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365984">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365985" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506436539"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And it just so happens that I have an inherent advantage over individuals such as yourself.</p> <p>I am a rational human being.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365985&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6bmxUV3m_Gj6moDMZHwA9pCieDElMhzLFI1lURgy02s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365985">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365986" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506436937"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Because even my grandparents could describe individuals in their communities, going back decades, who today would be considered autistic.....they either ended up in the asylums or locked away by their families.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365986&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ds6X4zMLkPuqnWQ9j7LMuu-9tRhn9mZVK2bPILmpHgA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365986">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365987" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506437502"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Right, Lawrence. I'm no match for your supercilious powers. :D</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365987&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="geSAyI971WW3Zof4NGt2J74jCS0B62NhVKGGbJ-h_A0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365987">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365988" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506437819"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>There is a new paper from the Shaw lab at UBC. They measured cytokine levels in brains of animals that received vaccine-relevant dosage of Al adjuvant as neonates. The brain was inflamed, and it had a pattern of inflammation matching inflammation present in human autism.</i></p> <p>Does VaccinePapers read Pubpeer? The revelations emerging there about faked data in the paper are devastating.<br /><a href="https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983">https://pubpeer.com/publications/4AEB7C8F30015079E2611157CF8983</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365988&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vWKJP0wzomTPQMx6ub_Gu3JPbBR9D_7jZXqEHnQGc_Q"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365988">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365989" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506439325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lawrence, bragging that you're not nuts is ableist.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365989&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xzOesECUGLbIiiSBe625D5GZ1Gvhli4ZoHvMZ4iOS7c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365989">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365990" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506441225"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Correct.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365990&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hlKFuDboGuZW3RjSmonHtAVDCnTkFzRAB-den5lFR4M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365990">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365991" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506446691"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>N</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365991&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="h7XPREt8rPsucg4paCOo-SxmrxxLbtVPPvGlktJ22w4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365991">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365992" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506448254"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lawrence: "You’ve obviously never heard of the American with Disabilities Act…."</p> <p>Nor the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.</p> <p>Please stop feeding this clueless troll.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365992&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PUWdmEu1BLZwXfYL2ROZl_rRKb70BFbmYG4f5XSHzn0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365992">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365993" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506449528"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>True</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365993&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bp7V30M6nhcupfIDf-gEaVi6O3FFL1CQI518yluZRIA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365993">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365994" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506451145"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>May I please quote from my reprint of the DSM-I (copyright: 1952):</p> <blockquote><p><b>000-x28 Schizophrenic reaction, childhood type</b></p> <p>Here will be classified those schizophrenic reactions occuring before puberty. The clinical picture may differ from schizophrenic reactions occuring in other age periods because of the immaturity and plasticity of the patient at the time of onset of the reaction. Psychotic reaction in children, manifesting primarily autism, will be classified here. Special symptomatology may be added to the diagnosis as manifestations.</p></blockquote> <p>Need I say that the DSM-I was a statistical manual designed to help psychiatrists fill out code forms (the precursor of today's EHR) for compliance with the<br /></p><blockquote>Draft Act Governing Hospitalisation of the Mentally Ill, Federal Security Agency, Public Health Service, Publication No. 51</blockquote> <p>.</p> <p>IMO, they can stick the word choice and language where the sun doesn't shine but we're dealing with the verbiage used in 1952 for compliance with an Act which is older so I digress a little bit.</p> <p>That said, the DSM is now in its 5th edition from a line of work originally created by the US census bureau (yep, counting patient in asylum started the incentive of alienists among other to keep documentation about their patient; it snowballed from there).</p> <p>Obviously, the methods and criteria for diagnosing autism changed in a very major way from that time (1952) and with it, the headcount.</p> <p>That said, in my case, I have a metric ton of documentation from my 1st and 2nd primary grade in an hospital for which, if we apply <b>current day</b> diagnostic criteria would mean that I do have a diagnostic of autism (and it was made in 2004) but....and that is a <b>giant but</b> I didn't meet the criteria back in 1982-1984 when that metric ton of paperwork was done.</p> <p>back in 1984, we moved, changed city and never mentionned to anyone (school or otherwise) my two years of schooling in that hospital.</p> <p>Now Ginny, I wasn't mentioning all that for you but rather, the fence-sitters who read, comment or don't comment but may ask one question which ought to be asked:</p> <p>1-: how many other current day adult autistic who lived a similar situation where they don't have any diagnostic or they never disclose it? (back in 1980+ and even before, a dx of autism carried a metric ton of stigma).</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365994&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xRCfevcS44KJFflD7sdX_Pks41RXoXIGU07GHb4xZ18"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365994">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365995" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506452268"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter said:<br /></p><blockquote>This investigation, published in a peer-reviewed law journal in 2011, found 83 cases of autism among those compensated for vaccine-induced brain damage in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.</blockquote> <p>The “peers” who reviewed that article were apparently as scientifically illiterate as you and the authors, since they did not understand or even bother note that the evidence that was available before that article was published emphatically refuted the idea that such cases were caused by vaccination. But, since you’ve posted essentially the same nonsense before, you knew that, didn’t you? Why do you continue to lie?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365995&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="eMHDCANSRS_D0eR8YKg33Cb4-Nami64LSWZhiG6qqv0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gallimaufry (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365995">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365996" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506455230"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alain: "1-: how many other current day adult autistic who lived a similar situation where they don’t have any diagnostic or they never disclose it? (back in 1980+ and even before, a dx of autism carried a metric ton of stigma"</p> <p>Um, yeah. In 1991 I was assured my then three year old nonverbal child was not autistic because he smiled and laughed (even when it was inappropriate). Then just five years later the same neurologist told me the child would grow out of the hand tics (something we now call stimming).</p> <p>About three years ago the young man was finally diagnosed with autism level 2 under DSM V. He also qualified under DSM IV.</p> <p>Yeah, same person.... different criteria. And according to the psychologist lots of research during the past decade. Some of that research has discovered about half of the genetic sequences that cause behaviors consistent with autism. </p> <p>They are looking for more, so if the parents of a child autism want to give up some spit and answer questions, sign up here:<br /><a href="https://sparkforautism.org/">https://sparkforautism.org/</a></p> <p>(I wanted to, but my son is over eighteen, so he has to sign up. It is not going to happen, le sigh)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365996&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5hQN6CK4VrFssLgJtiLsHd-PY9lwXL1PiS5aLURUcmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365996">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365998" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506464733"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gallimaufry, you seem a bit confused about the difference between a legal review and science. Anyway, if you ever leave the playground and come up with something other than ad hominem, let me know.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365998&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fVLPelS8IFrooJ23_U2Kd_r63SVr3emhkRqIjwfBGEE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365998">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1365999" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506467040"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter, I understand the difference between a legal review that ignores the scientific evidence and the scientific evidence that refutes that legal review at least as completely as you do. </p> <p>I also understand that your repetitive citations of that legal review are a cynical and dishonest attempt to suggest that the cases discussed in that legal review were caused by vaccination, despite the clear evidence to the contrary that was discussed and cited earlier in this thread as well as in other threads on this site in which you have made the same nonsensical claim.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1365999&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Iu7BsxnaQFjovxKsdWY2RlU51QdgI07DmuJqY_oxld8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Gallimaufry (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1365999">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366000" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506468138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's hilarious how many people think the DSM is based on science. It's not based on science at all. There are no "genetic markers" for an autism diagnosis. The criteria for each diagnosis is arrived at by vote. The more diagnoses that get voted in, and the broader they are, the better it is for every industry with a stake. There's something in the DSM for pretty much anyone who wants a diagnosis. That's to ensure that insurance companies have a reason to pay, and psychiatrists and psychologists have a reason to prescribe drugs. </p> <p>And more and more, it's to ensure that children with a need for special accommodations have a way to get them. That is the problem that seems to be really increasing these days--the number of children who need special accommodations to learn, who are unable to function reasonably normally in life, and who, as they grow older, are not able to be self-sufficient.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366000&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1ZMWu8sXTy60dWFtzJ2-NntI6LTQ0UtxAEgQRJRSyig"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366000">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366001" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506468545"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>NWO Reporter, you seem more than a bit confused about the difference between a legal review and science. You also don't seem to know what an ad hominem is. "the evidence that was available before that article was published emphatically refuted the idea that such cases were caused by vaccination." is not an ad hominem.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366001&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YK2HzWAbP1FTOJHODIkD34aoXLibzWr39DeeS_wpl48"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366001">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366002" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506469487"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Julian, apparently you missed this part of Gallimaufry's comment: "...apparently as scientifically illiterate as you." That's called ad hominem.</p> <p>And apparently you missed the point of the Holland paper as well--the one you didn't bother to read. The point was to see whether vaccine injuries that include autism were, in fact, receiving compensation awards in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The authors found they were. You can come up with all the industry papers you want saying vaccines don't cause autism, and it won't change that fact. </p> <p>I'm sure it goes without saying that you're taking the CDC's 2003 autism study at face value. The one where that "crazy conspiracy theorist" and CDC researcher Dr. William Thompson blew the whistle on research fraud, the omission of data to get rid of an unwanted result, a result that indicated the MMR vaccine could cause autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366002&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="19uaz3B0Y3u15T155JccHLEijNhEJe-XiztaXPnJ_IU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">NWO Reporter (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366002">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366003" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506470252"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>*********"For antivaxers, aluminum is the new mercury."</p> <p>15 years ago, vaccine activists advanced the mercury hypothesis and it was wrong. It was tested and while the evidence did suggest some harm, it was clear that mercury could not explain the persistent rise and high rates of autism. New evidence supports the hypothesis that autism is caused by aluminum adjuvant. Science advances by changing a working hypothesis in view of new evidence. Thats why focus is shifting to aluminum. Arguing that the aluminum hypothesis is precluded by the studies on mercury is nonsensical. Studies of mercury cannot be used as evidence for the safety of aluminum adjuvant.</p> <p>The evidence support aluminum adjuvant causation of autism is far stronger than the mercury evidence ever was. A big reason why is the immune activation research, which started at about 2005. We now know the immune pathway that causes autism (IL-6 &gt;&gt; IL-17 expression).</p> <p>*************"Adjuvants are compounds added to vaccine in order to boost the immune response to the antigen used, and aluminum salts have been used as effective adjuvants for many years now and have an excellent safety record"</p> <p>There is no evidence for the neurological or autism safety of aluminum adjuvant. Jefferson 2004 and Mitkus 2011 provide no evidence for neuro safety. They have many flaws and design choices that preclude their application to neuro safety, such as :<br /> --too short follow up (Jefferson)<br /> --no investigation of neuro outcomes or autism (jefferson)<br /> --comparing two forms of aluminum, instead of Al to saline (Jefferson)<br /> --looking at only one or a couple vaccines at a time, not the entire schedule (Jefferson)<br /> --subjects not infants, but rather older children or adults. (Jefferson)</p> <p>--Not based on toxicity tests with Al adjuvant (Mitkus)<br /> --Theoretical modeling study with no empirical work (Mitkus)<br /> --Use of erroneous NOAEL, which is too high by a factor of 7.6 (mitkus)<br /> --Ignores kinetics and toxicity of particles. Only considers dissolved Al3+(Mitkus)</p> <p>*****************Unfortunately, there is no clear statement of hypothesis where it belongs, namely in the introduction</p> <p>Hypothesis is stated. Obviously, the hypothesis is that aluminum adjuvant induces inflammation and elevated cytokine expression i the brain.</p> <p>QUOTE: "To investigate Al′s immune and neurotoxic impact in vivo, we tested the expression of 17 genes which are implicated in both autism and innate immune response in brain samples of Al-injected mice in comparison to control mice."</p> <p>***************The point is that this study does not confirm or refute any hypothesis, much less provide any sort of slam-dunk evidence that aluminum adjuvants cause autism.</p> <p>It confirms the hypothesis that aluminum adjuvant induces inflammation in the brain, and that the inflammation is similar to brain inflammation observed in human autism. Also, IL-6 is proven to cause autistic behaviors in animals, and the aluminum adjuvant induced IL-6 in the brain (see <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17913903">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17913903</a> and <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822608">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26822608</a></p> <p>**************"After all, autism is a human neurodevelopmental disorder diagnosed entirely by behavioral changes, and correlating mouse behavior with human behavior is very problematic. Indeed, correlating the behavior of any animal, even a primate, with human behavior is fraught with problems. Basically, there is no well-accepted single animal model of autism, and autism research has been littered with mouse models of autism that were found to be very much wanting. (“Rain mouse,” anyone?) "</p> <p>Autism has been shown to be associated with physiological dysfunctions such as immune system disorders, microbiome dysbiosis/GI disorders, chronic brain inflammation, and mitochondrial dysfunction for example. Immune activation has been shown to cause all these features of autism. These facts support the face validity of the immune activation model of autism.</p> <p>*************" Looking over the schedule used, I can’t help but note that there’s a huge difference between human infant development and mouse development. Basically, the mice received aluminum doses claimed to be the same as what human babies get by weight six times in the first 17 days of life. By comparison, in human babies these doses are separated by months."</p> <p>Mice develop faster than humans, so the schedule is compressed to match the development that occurs over the first 6 months in humans. It is reasonable to be concerned that this may increase the toxicity of al adjuvant. However, there are also reasons why the compressed dosing schedule should not make a different. Al adjuvant is mostly retained on the time scale of 6 months (see Flarend 1997). So, the doses in humans are cumulative, as they will be in mice dosed over 17 days. If the al adjuvant was eliminated on the time scale of 2 months (the gap between vaccination dates in humans), then this argument could be given some weight. But thats not the case.</p> <p>If aluminum adjuvant was as extraordinarily safe as vaccine promoters claim, a compressed dosing schedule should not make a difference.</p> <p>**************"But I do know enough to know that NF-κB is easy to activate and very nonspecific. I used to joke that just looking at my cells funny would activate NF-κB signaling. Also, NF-κB activation is indeed associated with inflammation, but so what? What we have is an artificial model in which the mice are dosed much more frequently with aluminum than human infants. Does this have any relevance to the human brain or to human autism? who knows? Probably not. No, almost certainly not."</p> <p>NF-Kb is elevated in human autism. See<br /><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3098713/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3098713/</a><br /> and<br /><a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0019488">http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0019488</a></p> <p>Sure lots of everyday exposures induce NF-Kb. But the NF-Kb does not typically occur in the brain. Also, the effect of infections etc is transient. In contrast, the aluminum adjuvant induced NF-Kb in the brain, and the NF-Kb induction was persistent. Measurements were performed about 3.5 months after the final injection of adjuvant. The PERSISTENCE of the inflammation is a critical factor that differentiates al adjuvant exposure from natural infections and the everyday exposures that induce NF-Kb. Persistent inflammation injures the brain over time and disrupts development processes.</p> <p>I recommend this recent paper on neuroinflammation in autism: <a href="https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs12264-017-0103-8.pdf">https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs12264-017-0103-8.pdf</a></p> <p>*****************"This is basically a fishing expedition in which the only real hypothesis is that “aluminum in vaccines is bad and causes bad immune system things to happen in the brain.”</p> <p>This is not a reasonable argument in view of the extensive research on immune activation and cytokine impacts on brain development. The immune activation research firmly establishes inflammation/cytokines as a cause of human autism.</p> <p>******************"Indeed, correlating the behavior of any animal, even a primate, with human behavior is fraught with problems. Basically, there is no well-accepted single animal model of autism, and autism research has been littered with mouse models of autism that were found to be very much wanting."</p> <p>There are challenges, but there are ways to measure autism-like behaviors in mice and monkeys. Eye tracking experiments with monkeys show the same social attention abnormalities as in human autism for example. Paper: <a href="http://vaccinepapers.org/wp-content/uploads/Maternal-Immune-Activation-in-Nonhuman-Primates-Alters-Social-Attention-in-Juvenile-Offspring.pdf">http://vaccinepapers.org/wp-content/uploads/Maternal-Immune-Activation-…</a></p> <p>The immune activation animal models meet all requirements for validity. Infection/inflammation is a well accepted risk factor for autism. Drugs effective for human autism are also effective in the animal models. The immune activatin models replicate all known features of autism. There is little evidence to suggest the immune activation models are not representative of human autism.</p> <p>A 2016 review states: "<br /> “These MIA (maternal immune activation) animal models meet all of the criteria required for validity for a disease model: They mimic a known disease-related risk factor (construct validity), they exhibit a wide range of disease-related symptoms (face validity), and they can be used to predict the efficacy of treatments (predictive validity).”<br /> –Dr Kimberley McAllister, UC Davis MIND Institute, Science"</p> <p>**************"The authors stated that they did it because they wanted to follow previously utilized protocols in their laboratory. In some cases, that can be a reasonable rationale for an experimental choice,"</p> <p>You dont know the details of why this decision was made. it true that SC injection means the results in isolation cannot be assumed to apply to IM adjuvant. But Crepeaux 2016 used IM injection, and reported behavioral abnormalities and brain inflammation. So IM causes brain injury and inflammation also.</p> <p>********************"(That’s why we used to call it semiquantitative PCR.) Quite frankly, in this day and age, there is absolutely zero excuse for choosing this method for quantifying gene transcripts."</p> <p>Semiquantitative PCR is still in use today.</p> <p>*******************""Now, take a look at Figures 1A and 1B as well as Figures 2A and 2B. Look at the raw bands in the A panels of the figures. Do you see much difference, except for IFNG (interferon gamma) in Figure 1A? I don’t.</p> <p>Get your eyes checked. CCL2 and TNFA are obviously different in Fig 1A. A Fig 1B shows that CCL2, IFNG and TNFa expression have the largest increases compared to controls. Obviously, this indicates inflammation in the brain.</p> <p>Fig 2 is FOR FEMALES, which are more tolerant of the toxic effects of al adjuvant. The milder inflammation in female mice (Fig 2) supports the connection to human autism because males are affected more often by about a 4:1 ratio.</p> <p>**********************"Also, the mouse immune system is different from the human immune system."</p> <p>On questions of fundamental biological developmental processes, animal models deserve a presumption of applicability to humans. There is no evidence that these models are not relevant to humans.</p> <p>IL-6 function in humans and mice appear to be identical. There are no known differences. Your "Of Mice and Not Men" paper is a good paper (I have read it), and it does not mention any mouse-human differences in IL-6. My understanding is that human and mouse IL-6 are identical molecules.</p> <p>Immune activation results have been replicated in monkeys.</p> <p>Human epi studies, case reports and other human studies demonstrate that inflammation increases risk of brain injury, autism and mental illness in humans. Its clear that brain inflammation is important in human mental illnesses, including autism.</p> <p>There is consensus among researchers that immune activation animal models are relevant to humans.</p> <p>Aluminum is toxic to all life. There is no reason to believe that humans are uniquely resistant to aluminum, and much evidence that Al exposure causes brain injury (e.g. see the "Camelford incident"). <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wi">https://en.wikipedia.org/wi</a>...</p> <p>Fundamental biological processes like brain development are not the types of things that differ greatly between humans and other mammals. The types of things that are different are drug binding affinities and drug metabolism, because they can be strongly affected by small genetic differences. Thats not the case with brain development. Human and other mammal brains develop by the same processes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366003&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1uNwiPtji0OLXTG3BIh_1iagraOJzOlY6lbvMSGjPaI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366003">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="28" id="comment-1366012" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506493299"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh look. VP is ignoring the potential fraud in this paper.<br /> Yeah, the paper is so bad that it deserved a follow-up about the monkey business going on with the figures.<br /><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence/">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/09/27/torturing-more-mice-in-the-name-of-antivaccine-pseudoscience-was-it-fraud-or-incompetence/</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366012&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="04oGyIcjJJiRKAw0SLx1-GMCkLb7UlSh2W2eijChgmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a> on 27 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366012">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/oracknows"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/oracknows" hreflang="en"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/pictures/orac2-150x150-120x120.jpg?itok=N6Y56E-P" width="100" height="100" alt="Profile picture for user oracknows" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1366003#comment-1366003" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366004" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506470799"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>None of the studies cited in the text below are relevant to aluminum adjuvant safety. MMR does not contain aluminum. Studies of thimerosal are not relevant to aluminum adjuvant.</p> <p>"Five cohort studies involving 1,256,407 children, and five case-control studies involving 9,920 children were included in this analysis. The cohort data revealed no relationship between vaccination and autism (OR: 0.99; 95% CI: 0.92 to 1.06) or ASD (OR: 0.91; 95% CI: 0.68 to 1.20), nor was there a relationship between autism and MMR (OR: 0.84; 95% CI: 0.70 to 1.01), or thimerosal (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.77 to 1.31), or mercury (Hg) (OR: 1.00; 95% CI: 0.93 to 1.07). Similarly the case-control data found no evidence for increased risk of developing autism or ASD following MMR, Hg, or thimerosal exposure when grouped by condition (OR: 0.90, 95% CI: 0.83 to 0.98; p = 0.02) or grouped by exposure type (OR: 0.85, 95% CI: 0.76 to 0.95; p = 0.01). Findings of this meta-analysis suggest that vaccinations are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder. Furthermore, the components of the vaccines (thimerosal or mercury) or multiple vaccines (MMR) are not associated with the development of autism or autism spectrum disorder."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366004&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ww17jTGVZkWAfDbZ4RiZnufbQU5X0jOUtqtiYorH-q8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Vaccine Papers (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366004">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366005" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506471068"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The point [of the pitiful Holland paper] was to see whether vaccine injuries that include autism were, in fact, receiving compensation awards in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The authors found they were.</p></blockquote> <p>That's strong work, Ginny, except that such alleged “vaccine injuries” have been repeatedly shown to be to be genetically-determined and unrelated to vaccination. </p> <p>BTW, did you miss “Whistleblower” Thompson’s recorded comment to the effect that the finding that his coauthors attributed to socioeconomic factors was, in fact, due to socioeconomic factors? Here's what Thompson said in a conversation that BS Hooker secretly recorded on June 12, 2014: </p> <p>Thompson: "among the blacks . . . the ones getting vaccinated earlier are the ones from higher-income backgrounds. . . . You could argue that it's the educated black moms that are getting their kids vaccinated earlier and that's why you found that effect."</p> <p>BS Hooker: "And they're getting that effect and the ones that are getting vaccinated later are <i>underdiagnosed</i>."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366005&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZuLZ9tCgvuKtACge1QyjdX6Z2KD0vgWYdgNjGTk9iYk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">brian (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366005">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366006" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506471271"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@NWO Reporter, nope. An ad hominem is "your argument is wrong because you're stupid". Gallimaufry was saying "you're scientifically illiterate because your argument is wrong and you don't know why". i.e. You're stupid because you're wrong.<br /> Re your second paragraph: no, I didn't miss the point of Holland's paper. She was trying to insinuate that because people who had a diagnosis of autism had been compensated by the NVICP, that proved that vaccines can cause autism. They can't.<br /> As for William Thompson, that whole palaver has been discussed on Respectful Insolence already. Put his name into the Search Box up top. You will find several posts pointing out that what you say he said was not what he actually said.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366006&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hET7GkqWmdP_wK0zLUV3cClLfi_a83Ro3OUEQuDiHFU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Sep 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/2789/feed#comment-1366006">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366007" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1506471834"></mark> <div class="well">