triple negative breast cancer https://www.scienceblogs.com/ en Why a case report being circulated by advocates doesn't show that the ketogenic diet combats cancer https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2017/10/04/why-a-case-report-being-circulated-by-advocates-doesnt-show-that-the-ketogenic-diet-combats-cancer <span>Why a case report being circulated by advocates doesn&#039;t show that the ketogenic diet combats cancer</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's October again, which is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. As someone who takes care of breast cancer patients, I have a love-hate relationship with October. On the good side, I like seeing positive messages about what's going on in breast cancer research, advocacy, and clinical treatment. On the other hand, the quacks come out. I also see a lot of bad breast cancer studies. You might think that I'd like that too because it provides blog fodder. I could actually do without that, but in this case I happened to come across a "study" that illustrates why I detest how those promoting unproven treatments prey upon the misconceptions and lack of knowledge the average person has about breast cancer. So it was when I encountered this on Twitter:</p> <!--more--><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"> <p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">1) Study showing aggressive metastasized <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/breastcancer?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#breastcancer</a> defeated with a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ketogenicdiet?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ketogenicdiet</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/lchf?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#lchf</a> <a href="https://t.co/oWx7xngV1w">https://t.co/oWx7xngV1w</a></p> <p>— Low Carb High Fat (@lowcarblonglife) <a href="https://twitter.com/lowcarblonglife/status/915274148498329600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> With this followup:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Ketogenic diet was part of the Press Pulse strategy used as a complement to the normally ineffective chemotherapy.</p> <p>— Low Carb High Fat (@lowcarblonglife) <a href="https://twitter.com/lowcarblonglife/status/915276401896574977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> With this followup:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">Ketogenic diet was part of the Press Pulse strategy used as a complement to the normally ineffective chemotherapy.</p> <p>— Low Carb High Fat (@lowcarblonglife) <a href="https://twitter.com/lowcarblonglife/status/915276401896574977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> I've written about the ketogenic diet before, specifically about how it is <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2014/06/24/more-hype-than-science-ketogenic-diets-for-cancer/">more hype than science right now</a>. I just realized reading my previous post that it's been three years since I've done an in-depth post on ketogenic diets. Who knows? Maybe someone's published something more recently that might make me change my mind. However, if that's the case, it's certainly not a study like the one Tweeted above, co-authored by Thomas Seyfried, the guru of ketogenic diets <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2014/06/24/more-hype-than-science-ketogenic-diets-for-cancer/">whom we've met before</a>.</p> <p>As you might recall from the last time I discussed him, Dr. Seyfried is a <a href="https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/mcas/departments/biology/people/faculty-directory/thomas-seyfried.html">professor of biology at Boston College</a>, who’s pretty well published. He’s also working in a field that has gained much more respectability over the last five to ten years, namely cancer metabolism, mainly thanks to a rediscovery of what Otto Warburg discovered over 80 years ago. What Warburg discovered was that many tumors rely on glycolysis for their energy even in environments with adequate oxygen for oxidative phosphorylation, which generates the bulk of the chemical energy used by cells. I first described this phenomenon in more detail in a <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2010/05/17/dichloroacetate-dca-and-cancer-deja-vu-a/">post I wrote seven years ago</a> about a drug that looks as though its anticancer properties come from its ability to reverse the Warburg effect.</p> <p>Unfortunately, Dr. Seyfried has also gone a bit off the deep end pursuing this idea, and the paper Tweeted above by him and co-investigators, as you will see. The paper is <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5589510/">Efficacy of Metabolically Supported Chemotherapy Combined with Ketogenic Diet, Hyperthermia, and Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for Stage IV Triple-Negative Breast Cancer</a>. Sounds pretty serious, right? Unfortunately, this is just a case report, and it was carried out at a rather dubious clinic in Istanbul called the <a href="http://chemothermia.com/about-us/">ChemoThermia Oncology Center</a>, which specializes in combining chemotherapy with hyperthermia, which in and of itself is not quackery, albeit it is only potentially useful for a handful of cancers, where it's used in the form of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermic_intraperitoneal_chemotherapy">hyperthermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy</a>. However, in this case, what is being used is something called "metabolically supported chemotherapy" (MSCT), which was combined with a ketogenic diet (KD), hyperthermia (HT), and hyperbaric oxygen (HBOT). So right there, just reading the abstract, my skeptical antennae started twitching. It sounds as though everything but the kitchen sink, but it's worse than that. Check out this passage:</p> <blockquote><p> In practice, MSCT initiates with a 12-hour fast, the application of pharmacological doses of regular insulin, and the development of mild hypoglycemia prior to the administration of chemotherapy. As was previously demonstrated in a case report of rectal cancer and a case series in pancreatic cancer, MSCT may enhance the cytotoxic effects of chemotherapy [4-5]. </p></blockquote> <p>What they're talking about here is insulin potentiation therapy (IPT), which is not just unproven, but it's <a href="https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/insulin-potentiation-therapy">potentially</a> <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2013/06/26/sweet-and-alkaline-wont-win-the-war-against-cancer/">dangerous</a> <a href="https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/ipt.html">quackery</a>. The clinic itself touts case presentations that aren't even really case presentations, just pictures of shrinking tumors. I note that regular, run-of-the-mill standard-of-care chemotherapy can frequently shrink tumors, even metastatic tumors. What has to be shown is that this concocted regimen put together by the ChemoThermia Oncology Center actually does better than conventional chemotherapy. There is no evidence of that I can find anywhere on the website, but, a lot like the <a href="http://respectfulinsolence.com/2017/10/02/if-rigvir-is-effective-virotherapy-for-cancer-why-are-quack-clinics-selling-it-and-quackery-promoters-like-ty-bollinger-promoting-it/">Rigvir</a> website, there are <a href="http://chemothermia.com/category/testimonials/">testimonials</a> and a <a href="http://chemothermia.com/videos/">crappy retrospective study</a>.</p> <p>But what about the case report itself? Well, let's take a look:</p> <blockquote><p> An overweight 29-year-old woman with a body mass index (BMI) of 28.1 presented with a lump in her left breast that was detected during a physical examination in December 2015. The patient was admitted to Bakirkoy Dr. Sadi Konuk Education and Research Hospital, Istanbul, Turkey in August 2016, with interval enlargement of the tumor. Magnetic resonance imaging revealed a 75 mm x 75 mm x 65 mm left breast mass (Breast Imaging Reporting and Data System Category 5) with irregular borders. Multiple lymphadenomegaly was seen in the left axilla with the largest being 27 mm x 20 mm. A Tru-Cut biopsy led to a diagnosis of a nuclear grade 2 invasive ductal carcinoma that was negative for ER, PgR, and HER2 receptors (Figures (Figures--44). </p></blockquote> <p>This is what we in the biz call "triple negative breast cancer" (TNBC). It's a subtype of breast cancer that tends to be more aggressive, like cancers with amplified HER2 receptor. The difference is that HER2(+) breast cancer can be treated with targeted drugs like Herceptin and Perjeta, along with chemotherapy, to great effect. Estrogen receptor-positive cancers can be treated with hormonal therapy, specifically drugs that block the action of estrogen. For TNBC there are not as of yet any approved targeted drugs. That just leaves cytotoxic chemotherapy. Also, note the extreme young age of the patient. Breast cancer is relatively rare under the age of 30. (I've only seen a handful of such patients over my 18 year career.) Unfortunately, breast cancer tends to be more aggressive in young women like this.</p> <p>To translate the above: This is a 29-year-old woman with a large, locally advanced breast cancer with positive axillary lymph nodes (under the arm). That makes her at least stage 3 right off the bat. Unfortunately, it was worse than that. It was stage 4:</p> <blockquote><p> The patient was admitted to ChemoThermia Oncology Center, Istanbul, Turkey on October 1, 2016 and was evaluated using whole body (18F)-fluorodeoxyglucose (FDG)-positron emission tomography-computed tomography (PET-CT). The PET-CT scan revealed a 77 mm x 55 mm primary tumor in her left breast (maximum standard update value [SUVmax]: 22.65), multiple left pectoral and axillary lymph nodes (SUVmax: 11.44), multiple widespread liver masses (SUVmax: 30.34), and an upper left nodular abdominal lesion (SUVmax: 5.94) (Figure (Figure5,5, Video Video1).1). The patient was diagnosed with stage IV (T4N3M1) triple-negative invasive ductal carcinoma of the breast. </p></blockquote> <p>So, in addition to her local disease, she also had liver metastases and soem sort of upper abdominal mass. Neither of these were reported to have been biopsied, but, given their lighting up on PET scan, it's reasonable to conclude that they are metastases. However, here in the states, most oncologists would have biopsied one of the liver lesions to prove it.</p> <p>So here's what happened next:</p> <blockquote><p> An MSCT protocol designed for the patient consisted of docetaxel (30 mg/m<sup>2</sup>), doxorubicin (20 mg/m<sup>2</sup>), and cyclophosphamide (250 mg/m<sup>2</sup>). This drug combination was administered following a 12-hour fast and the introduction of 5 to 10 units of regular insulin (Humulin R). Chemotherapy delivery was initiated at blood glucose levels of 50 to 60 mg/dL. With the patient’s written and informed consent, this therapy was delivered on the first and eighth day of a 21-day cycle for a total of four months. Insulin delivery and chemotherapy infusions were delivered after assessing blood glucose levels upon arrival at the clinic, and the insulin dosage was sufficient to lower her blood glucose to approximately 50 mg/dL prior to delivery of the chemotherapy drugs.</p> <p>In addition to MSCT, the patient was encouraged to consume a KD. She received education regarding the diet restrictions and given food lists as noted in Table 1. </p></blockquote> <p>I'm a bit confused here. The standard of care is to give doxorubicin and cyclophosphamide together for a certain number of cycles, a combination referred to as AC (A=Adriamycin, the trade name of doxorubicin; C=Cytoxan, the trade name of cyclophosphamide). This is then followed by a drug related to Taxol, such as paclitaxel or docetaxel, administered as a single agent. The abbreviation of the whole regiment is thus ACT or AC, followed by T. I'm assuming that this is what this patient received, but the way it's written above sounds like they were given all together, which is not standard of care and would be expected to produce more toxicity. Certainly not standard of care is the IPT, nor is the KD. Nor is this:</p> <blockquote><p> The patient also received local HT and HBOT after each MSCT session. The OncoTherm EHY-3010 HT device (OncoTherm, Troisdorf, Germany) was used to gradually increase her body temperature to 45°C for each hyperthermia session (12 sessions, 60 minutes each) according to the manufacturer’s specifications. A mobile electrode measuring 40 cm x 50 cm was positioned on the thorax and abdomen that fully involved both the primary lesion and the liver metastasis. The Quamvis 320 hyperbaric oxygen chamber (OxyHealth, California, US) was used to produce an operating pressure of 1.5 atmospheres absolute (ATA; 12 sessions, 60 minutes each). The patient tolerated these combined therapies well with no evidence of toxicity or adverse events. </p></blockquote> <p>This is hyperthermia higher than is usually used, which is usually done at 41°-42°C They're doing 45°C, which is 113°F. That's at the very highest end of what is used.</p> <p>At the end of her therapy, on February 20, 2017, the patient underwent repeat imaging, which showed nothing lighting up on PET scan other than the kidneys, which normally light up. Then in April, she underwent a modified radical mastectomy, which showed what we call a complete pathologic response (cPR) to chemotherapy. What that means is that, upon pathological examination of the resected breast and lymph nodes, no viable tumor cells were found. So this is as good a result as can be expected.</p> <p>Now, our friend Tweeting above said, "normally ineffective chemotherapy." That is, of course, nonsense. If there's one thing about TNBC, it's that it's usually <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22098334">exquisitely sensitive to chemotherapy</a>—at least at first. It's not uncommon to observe dramatic tumor shrinkage due to chemotherapy. What makes TNBC <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22098334">such a bad actor</a> is that it tends to recur rapidly and develop resistance to chemotherapy. So, basically, it is not at all surprising that this woman had a dramatic response to chemotherapy, and there's no way of knowing whether the ketogenic diet contributed to her excellent response.</p> <p>Yet, as we see above, this case report is being represented as a "miracle cure":</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr" xml:lang="en">?Tks! I'm interested to know, but details like that don't seem to matter to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KetoBrigade?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KetoBrigade</a> for hailing it as near miracle cure for TNBC. Ugh. <a href="https://t.co/HLEU5wXWf9">pic.twitter.com/HLEU5wXWf9</a></p> <p>— Quidama (@IamBreastCancer) <a href="https://twitter.com/IamBreastCancer/status/915371219569975296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2017</a></p></blockquote> <script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><p> The authors also seem unduly impressed:</p> <blockquote><p> Given the poor prognosis and adverse effects, women with advanced TNBC may be counseled to forego conventional chemotherapy. This single case study presents evidence of a complete clinical, radiological, and pathological response following a six-month treatment period using a combination of MSCT and a novel metabolic therapy in a patient with stage IV TNBC. Given this patient’s remarkable favorable outcomes, further research and randomized clinical trials exploring add-on therapies (such as KD, HT, and HBOT) that may enhance the efficacy of traditional cancer treatments by exploiting the metabolic weaknesses in cancer cells are warranted, especially for patients with poor prognosis of high grade and/or late-stage cancer that is not expected to respond to treatment. Furthermore, this patient did not experience the adverse effects that are commonly associated with the current standard of care and this improved quality of life should also be considered when designing research that compares outcomes of MSCT, KD, HT, and HBOT to traditional treatment. In conclusion, this combined metabolic approach appears effective in treating advanced TNBC, given this patient’s complete response with a good quality of life. </p></blockquote> <p>Now, there is one thing that is interesting here. The doses of chemotherapy used were considerably lower than <a href="http://www.cancertherapyadvisor.com/breast-cancer/breast-cancer-invasive-treatment-regimens/article/218154/">what is usually used</a>, with doses decreased by at least half or more. Does this mean anything? Who knows? cPR rates for TNBC have been reported to range from 20-35%. It could mean the regimen made the chemotherapy more effective, or it could mean that this woman just happened to have a particularly chemosensitive tumor. Even if we take this case report at face value and accepted that chemotherapy efficacy had been improved, there's no way of knowing what did it. Was it the ketogenic diet? Was it the hyperthermia? Was it the IPT? (Actually, we know it almost certainly wasn't the IPT based on <a href="http://www.cam-cancer.org/The-Summaries/Dietary-approaches/Insulin-potentiation-therapy/(merge)">what is already known</a>; certainly no studies of long term survival have been published.)</p> <p>In any case, what we have here is a patient with stage 4 TNBC who underwent chemotherapy and surgery, showed a dramatic response, and then underwent surgery. She had a complete radiological response of her metastases (they were no longer detectable on imaging studies) and a complete pathologic response on her surgical specimen. She was alive six months after she started treatment. Assuming she's alive now, she's been alive a little more than a year with her diagnosis. That's nowhere outside the range of survival for stage 4 breast cancer, which has a roughly 20% five year survival. Indeed, extrapolating from what we know about neoadjuvant chemotherapy in TNBC (chemotherapy given before surgery), where pCR correlates with prolonged survival, it's not unreasonable to predict that this patient will do significantly better than the average patient with stage 4 TNBC. That this patient is alive now tells us nothing about whether the treatment used will prolong her life, and it certainly tells us nothing about whether everything larded onto the chemotherapy had anything to do whatsoever with her outcome. If anything, her excellent response is probably indicative of more favorable biology of her tumor than anything else.</p> <p>Unfortunately, because most people don't know a lot about breast cancer or chemotherapy, this case report will sound very compelling to them.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Tue, 10/03/2017 - 21:00</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/breast-cancer" hreflang="en">breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/chemotherapy" hreflang="en">chemotherapy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/ketogenic-diet" hreflang="en">Ketogenic diet</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/neoadjuvant-chemotherapy" hreflang="en">neoadjuvant chemotherapy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/thomas-seyfried" hreflang="en">Thomas Seyfried</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/triple-negative-breast-cancer" hreflang="en">triple negative breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/clinical-trials" hreflang="en">Clinical trials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366548" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507098634"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But if enough people go online to rate Dr. Seyfried's article highly and he wins a prize, doesn't that mean the therapy is effective? I thought that's how science worked.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366548&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RO2eyKoEGTkFVy7mFo3lZD926ajsMkAGA2ntcTcy09U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366548">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366549" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507101479"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Why did they have to go to Turkey?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366549&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7F7eG-lgviOeOaucD34iSoR2o3liptcRum1JyL_nJNg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366549">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366550" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507106092"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sigh. I'd forgotten October was Breast Cancer Awareness month for four blissful days. I'd be happier about it if awareness did any good and wasn't a signal for the grift machines to go into motion.All that fundraising and none of the money goes to research.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366550&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_mkkgOhm-4EBLVjLp8RiCSq15tkpTU33WSrrYiWED0I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366550">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366551" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507108374"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Unfortunately, Mercola has been singing the praises of the ketogenic diet as the "key" to "'cancer recovery" since March, 2013; he has additional articles, a book, recipes and a new recipe book ( available November). However much of his woo focuses upon weight loss - which I'm sure is an issue for cancer patients. </p> <p>So I suppose cancer patients have a choice of woo diets- vegan, keto, raw or paleo dependent upon their guru.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366551&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="cAeApXUm-v1rVpl-GPpsHyC_reJ3Wgx4RltYIEs4Omc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366551">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366552" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507111295"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>N=1???</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366552&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wNIv08AVSjcfHenO9uzulLCB5zxzFmADvUZ_eSnEGk4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sandi (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366552">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366553" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507112390"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>They probably couldn't get IRB approval here.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366553&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lI4otaM1_pVddEAygweriaRW1Xw49aOaY3pemZoizT8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366553">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366554" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507115379"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Am I wrong if I consider the words 'normally infective chemotherapy' as a sign there is some quack involved?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366554&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XZOxSOGOF4ZR_6O54GK_LJU0KcI00-vPVt1iKefldf4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366554">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366555" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507115434"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ïneffective, of course</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366555&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Emp08QbWEu7VxlQcRGJCaP4mxs565LVc-PK9x9iCbWI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366555">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366556" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507116215"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Am I wrong if I consider the words ‘normally infective chemotherapy’ as a sign there is some quack involved?</i></p> <p>I was thinking exactly the same thing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366556&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XY6Yf0EGLF6kEPC2OULqshoGlRs-7mFIyoAH39a_zXU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">shay simmons (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366556">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366557" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507122382"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Why did they have to go to Turkey?"<br /> Because they looked at US regulations and turned chicken.<br /> Anyway, they have gotten poultry results, not even enough to goose the statistics. They just parrot the ideas of quacks.<br /> I guess we should give thanks that they won't gull serious researchers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366557&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1NtyRciekGUWFGkI3iPIh4I6xOTzI4bHraVLFstecKk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Old Rockin&#039; Dave (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366557">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366558" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507124403"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>further research and randomized clinical trials exploring add-on therapies (such as KD, HT, and HBOT)</i></p> <p>"We threw all sorts of crap at the wall; the patient improved so now we must invest in testing every sorts of crap."<br /> It is almost as if the clinicians' primary goal was to apply for research grants in crap-at-the-wall-related therapies.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366558&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="lb2UYw7fMhsOpyLpphSrSGdn_IW4MK8jZ1jPgfrM9XI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366558">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366559" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507128026"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Sandi #5:</p> <blockquote><p>N=1???</p></blockquote> <p>Stop bringing common sense into the argument. You'll never make your millions with an attitude like that.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366559&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mkPB0XslM3OCqznHA2m9a1IzAUqmW9wVPJX1CMNs8PY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366559">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366560" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507133151"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ORD: That post laid a whole nest full of eggs.</p> <p>Mmmm. I'm hankering for an omelette now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366560&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QmCZAwUr2M3GrWh_uYzQeJvFuhW5C9UW_UnuDeB1M6E"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Panacea (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366560">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366561" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507137325"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Let me get this straight: first the patient fasts, then is given insulin until they are lightly hypoglycemic, then get their chemo, then get roasted to 113F, then get squashed in a pressure chamber?<br /> Please tell me it wasn't all on the same day? That sounds like a harrowing regimen. </p> <p>And they do all that (plus surgery) and the keto diet gets the praise? Do they even know how well the patient complied with the keto diet?</p> <p>I'd like to see what the professor formerly known as Dr Isis (now at Dreams of Chickens) thinks of this, since she's a physiologist who's also into keto.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366561&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pjS7KmuNPVUls0qC9sQ7k72U8CVHdu0UfMl3NEowGlE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JustaTech (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366561">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366562" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507137818"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Stop bringing common sense into the argument. You’ll never make your millions with an attitude like that.</p></blockquote> <p>Keep dreaming of your medical million :)</p> <p>In the meantime, I'll make do with what brung a full stop to that nomadish tendency of yore and of which, today, Anheuser-busch and company are bringing billions to the table: beer (fabrication that is)...</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366562&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ckOC7F2IfWHuqQJ9cLIP0sLUj01PJDaerfGBVDP9IcM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366562">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366563" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507138792"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, Alain, but I'm not sure what you're talking about. As far as I'm aware Anheuser-Busch have only brought anything approaching billions to the table when it came to paying lawyers to try to shut down a Czech brewery who had been brewing beer for several centuries prior to the USA being founded. And they failed.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366563&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="D8uUcM6GZaqp-Ml2b_thtFL1zwiHqlJahJku3wLSyfo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366563">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366564" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507145973"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I tried to make a joke; it failed.</p> <p>That said, I was thinking your comment (make a million disregarding common sense) as an analogy to burzinsky and other medical fraudsters while on the other, I was thinking about my corporative environment that I'll be working on to bring to fruition next year.</p> <p>I spoke about submitting the diagnostic paperwork to the taxes agencies here in Canada (both Federal one as well as my province one) but this is only a piece of the larger plan which involve the use of the tax credit reimbursement to negotiate the settlement of my personal debts first (guestimated: 15000$ canucks money) and with the rest of the payback, I am entitled to an investment fund called RDSP (registered disability saving plan) for which, once I put in some money (say: 50$), both government fill it up to the tune of 10 000$ and thereafter, for each 1$ that I put into the fund, both government (provincial and federal one) put in 1$ each so, with 15 000$ in, I can net around 55 000$ in the account.</p> <p>I asked my financial planner if I can get a self-managed RDSP account (answer: yes) and following that information, I will create an holding corporation to hold the investment account for which, I'll be the only client (legally, I'm not yet allowed to manage other people's money so it will be mine, that's it) but which, I will also be the investment manager of that account.</p> <p>I'm checking up the legalese and also, I am looking up at corporate loan but it seem to me this is a much faster way to bring up cash as opposed to selling snake oil treatment...</p> <p>I should become an accountant but suffice it to say that the first investment I will be investigating is starting up my own brewery (might require a separate corporation for brewing beer but the brewery will ask the holding firm for financing...)</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366564&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LK0gXvPj4L4Ts4DIsdIeIJLr4wjFVvauH-MTp7AqfRg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366564">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366565" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507148235"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Alain:</p> <p>I got the joke. Buy I am aware of how Anheiser-Busch has been taking over many local (okay, crappy) breweries in the US.</p> <p>I'm not dealing with anywhere near as much money as you (no debts, thanks to grants and scholarships and work), but I recently app appealed my disability decision. (I have yet to choose a lawyer. I don't know how to choose a good one.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366565&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TV1GvZRmiu3LYq-KWobqqB8cbZMg40_t_LVUF5Nwkfw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 04 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366565">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366566" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507453373"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In article published few days ago we support ketogenic diets for prevention and therapy for cancer. This inside the reasoning that while fats do not have appreciable effects on the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) or in lactate formation, high carbohydrate diets have significantly effects on both SNS and lactate formation.<br /> The article is entitled “Stress as the Inductive Factor for Increased Lactate Production: The Evolutionary Path to Carcinogenesis”. Positive Health Online, Edition 241, October, 2017 at <a href="http://www.positivehealth.com/article/cancer/stress-inductive-factor-for-increased-lactate-production-evolutionary-path-to-carcinogenesis">http://www.positivehealth.com/article/cancer/stress-inductive-factor-fo…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366566&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k4grjeWXBtI_ZGRdPhuUJn0k4YzhHHrflDF69Bmpp_c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Carlos Monteiro (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366566">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366567" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507462896"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I'm aware of how Anheiser-Busch has been taking over many local (okay, crappy) breweries in the US.</p></blockquote> <p>I wouldn't call Goose Island "crappy," offhand. I think Invective also recently acquired Virtue Cider, as well, and I quite like their brut. It all depends on how the deal is structured. (Fun fact: Yuengling actually built a brewery in Tampa because of retiree demand. I had to prove to my dad that it came from Pennsylvania rather than New York.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366567&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9T3bLom2IvSgRhVtbi_qxAb9se7KvsFnOh5gTULr9g4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366567">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366568" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507462975"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>^ "Inbev," not "Invective."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366568&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-FbXULt71l3M0jSZSpZdZ6Bom_sEM4D_6XzCtoX_PEM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366568">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366569" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507466303"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Narad:</p> <p>I guess I was thinking more of, say, Rainier and Olympia, the stuff we used to drink in college. (Though the old Oly brewery in Tumwater was already in disuse by the time I got to college.)</p> <p>They got bought out by some bigger brewery, anyway.</p> <p>And I still like Olympia. I convinced the local store to start carrying it again; cracked one open directly after stacking a couple cords of wood yesterday. (With help from a couple cousins.) My brother and I got the last two cords split and stacked before noon today.</p> <p>Hot take: cheap beer is good because it's cheap.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366569&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rthR9wC2Y3o6SkPRJudx6DoRbBAa8qK5HZuiJ4liGhY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366569">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366570" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507466867"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I've only had Goose Island in airports and train stations I think; it's just okay. Michigan has better breweries in my opinion.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366570&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SbnHaqWF5l0hBuVCzxKifhn_a28mt6IGEFtJAn4aPaA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JP (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366570">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1366571" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1507469643"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Hot take: cheap beer is good because it’s cheap.</i><br /> Also, because it's beer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1366571&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KYPRv6_Il7DsMg1TMTIsByC33GGcI50ZinM1YvqgkhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 08 Oct 2017 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1366571">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2017/10/04/why-a-case-report-being-circulated-by-advocates-doesnt-show-that-the-ketogenic-diet-combats-cancer%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Wed, 04 Oct 2017 01:00:56 +0000 oracknows 22635 at https://www.scienceblogs.com Public service announcement: No, drinking your own urine will not cure breast cancer https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/10/23/public-service-announcement-no-drinking-your-own-urine-will-not-cure-breast-cancer <span>Public service announcement: No, drinking your own urine will not cure breast cancer</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I consider posts like the one I'm writing now to be public service, an obligation. There are times when I don't want to do them, when they become so sadly, depressingly repetitive in overall outline (and, unfortunately, likely outcome) that it takes an effort to begin. However, given that October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month and as a result these sorts of stories seem to pop out of the woodwork this time of year, I feel I must. It doesn't matter that I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/09/17/another-irresponsible-breast-cancer-alternative-cure-testimonial/">just discussed another one of these cases</a> a mere month ago. This time around, the article appears (as is so frequently the case) in The Daily Mail, and, as is so frequently the case with the Daily Fail, boasts a near-hysterical headline, <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3282663/Woman-41-advanced-breast-cancer-REFUSES-chemotherapy-favour-drinking-urine-homoeopathy-psychic-surgeon-try-cure-herself.html">Mother, 41, with advanced breast cancer REFUSES chemotherapy in favour of drinking her own urine, homoeopathy and a psychic surgeon to try and cure herself</a>.</p> <p>Let's step back a minute and look at the world of alternative cancer cure testimonials as reported in the news. Sometimes these stories are exploitative. No, strike that. These stories <em>always</em> exploitative in a sort of "look at the crazy patient" kind of way, basically a freak show. However,sometimes they can be sympathetic, as in "look at that brave maverick patient bucking the status quo and choosing her own way." Of course, the two takes on these stories are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes the spin is along the lines of, "This patient is crazy but quite brave. Look at her bravely choose her own way in her fight for survival."</p> <!--more--><p>This particular article, about a 41-year-old woman named Sam Ravelle, strikes me as leaning more towards the exploitative freak show angle than the sympathetic portrait of a brave, "go her own way, damned the consequences" patient. The reason is obvious. She's trying to cure her breast cancer by drinking her own urine! How crazy is that? But even freak show portrayals of patients, which this most definitely has the flavor of, besides bordering on the mocking of a desperately ill cancer patient, can still have unintended consequences. For one thing, by simply promoting such quackery as a viable option, such stories promote it. It doesn't matter how many medical experts the article trots out to decry how stupid this is, how the woman is harming herself and needs conventional care. What a significant part of the population will see is that the woman is still alive, that she's appealing and plucky, and that maybe her way will work, particularly when the article provides a link to her <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams" rel="nofollow">GoFundMe page</a> and includes lots of pictures of Ravelle looking happy and vital.</p> <p>So let's take a <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3282663/Woman-41-advanced-breast-cancer-REFUSES-chemotherapy-favour-drinking-urine-homoeopathy-psychic-surgeon-try-cure-herself.html">look at the story</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> A woman with breast cancer has refused chemotherapy and is instead trying to cure herself through drinking her own urine.</p> <p>Former carer Sam Ravelle, 41, of Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, is also using homeopathic medicines, herbs and supplements in a bid to beat the illness.</p> <p>She was diagnosed with an aggressive grade three tumour in her right breast in August 2012.</p> <p>Doctors at Ashford Hospital, Middlesex, offered her a lumpectomy, radiotherapy and chemotherapy but she has rejected the treatments in favour of urine therapy and alternative medicines. </p></blockquote> <p>Urine therapy? There's one alternative treatment whose rationale I've never been able to wrap my brain around. It's also a rather strange incongruence. After all, alternative medicine is all about removing "toxins" from your body, and what organ does that better from the kidneys? Yet, here we have a woman drinking the very toxins her very effective kidneys have excreted, thus reintroducing them into her body in order to cure herself!</p> <p>In any case, this story differs from the typical breast cancer alternative cure testimonial in that usually in these stories the patient has undergone surgery but decided to refuse chemotherapy. As I've described so many times, going back to the very earliest days of this blog, surgery is the main treatment for breast cancer, with the chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and hormonal therapy (as appropriate) decreasing the chance of its recurring. When a patient undergoes surgery but eschews chemotherapy and continues to do well, make no mistake; it was the surgery that cured her, and she was just lucky that she didn't have a recurrence. In Ravelle's case, she did nothing, other than drink her own pee and go to homeopathic quacks. (Does diluting them make them stronger?)</p> <p>But what about her tumor? We don't really learn how large it was upon diagnosis, only that it was grade 3. There's more on her <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams">GoFundMe page</a>, though:</p> <blockquote><p> My friend Sam Ravelle has the aggressive triple negative breast cancer. There is no ‘good’ type of breast cancer, but to those working in breast cancer treatment and research – and the patients that hear about it – the phrase ‘triple negative’ carries a heavy weight, and affects 15 – 20% of breast cancer patients, such as my daughter. The disease is notorious for having a poorer survival rate (only 14% using conventional aggressive treatments survive over a five-year period) and is less well understood than other types of breast cancer.</p> <p>I remember Sam telling me what happened when she was diagnosed back in 2012. After being told she would die if she didn’t follow surgery, chemotherapy and then radiation. Sam asked her Oncologist what the alternatives to that were… whereupon Sam was yelled at and the Oncologists words were ‘there isn’t any and if you do anything else while I’m treating you then I’m not treating you!’ </p></blockquote> <p>Um, no. I study triple negative breast cancer. I treat triple negative breast cancer. It's true that triple negative breast cancer (TNBC) has a poorer prognosis, stage for stage, than cancer that is estrogen-receptor positive. Compared to these cancers, TNBC tends to be very sensitive to chemotherapy initially but to develop resistance rapidly and to recur early. I have to question where Mr. Tor Hoie, who wrote the above passage, got the 14% five year survival figure. To put it in perspective, the five year survival for women with metastatic breast cancer is 22%, and Hoie is claiming that, among all comers with TNBC treated with conventional therapy, five year survival is 14%. Unless Ravelle had distant metastases at the time of her original diagnosis—I note that nowhere does it say that she did and her being offered surgery rather argues that she did not—an estimated five year survival of 14% is not credible. In fact, I <a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.22618/full">know where that 14% survival figure came from</a>, and it applies to African-American women with late stage TNBC. In fact, here is an estimated survival curve for TNBC:</p> <div style="width: 332px;display:block;margin:0 auto;"><a href="/files/insolence/files/2015/10/nfig001.jpg"><img src="/files/insolence/files/2015/10/nfig001.jpg" alt="Five year triple negative breast cancer survival by stage." width="322" height="233" class="size-full wp-image-9800" /></a> Five year triple negative breast cancer survival by stage. </div> <p>And here is a comparison of survival by stage in TNBC patients versus non-TNBC patients:</p> <div style="width: 332px;display:block;margin:0 auto;"><a href="/files/insolence/files/2015/10/nfig002.jpg"><img src="/files/insolence/files/2015/10/nfig002.jpg" alt="Five year survival by stage for triple negative breast cancer compared to other forms of breast cancer." width="322" height="691" class="size-full wp-image-9801" /></a> Five year survival by stage for triple negative breast cancer compared to other forms of breast cancer. </div> <p>As you can see, TNBC patients do worse, but the prognosis is nowhere near as grim as Hoie claims, nor would we expect it to be only a 14% five year survival for Ms. Ravelle, who is neither African-American nor had stage IV disease upon diagnosis. According to the story, her cancer was stage III when diagnosed. So, if you look at the second figure, you'll see that her expected five year survival is in the 40% range, and since that graph also includes stage IV patients I'd expect it to be somewhat higher, perhaps 50% or a bit higher. I understand that a 50% chance of surviving five years sucks. It's a horrible blow to endure and a horrible uncertain future for a 41 year old woman to face. But it's not hopeless by any stretch of the imagination. Choosing quackery instead of medicine is what renders Ravelle's future "hopeless."</p> <p>And, make no mistake, the cancer is progressing. Yes, it's progressing slower than I would have predicted, given that it's been three years since Ravelle's diagnosis, but it's grown:</p> <blockquote><p> Miss Ravelle said she felt well until February 2014 when she decided to start treating herself, despite having no formal medical training.</p> <p>She spread herbs over the tumour in her breast, which has left an 'apricot-sized hole' in her breast, in a bid to 'bring out' her cancer.</p> <p>'The first time it worked well and brought three lumps out of me- it collects into a scab which falls off and then heals over- but the second time it was hell and I was in agony,' she said. </p></blockquote> <p>That's because what Ravelle is using is commonly called <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/29/cutting-poisoning-and-burning-naturally/">black salve</a>, and what it does is to chemically burn the skin. There's a photo of the side of her breast with an ugly black area on it from the burn. Black salve can "work" (if you can call it that) sometimes, albeit in a painful, imprecise, and needlessly disfiguring way, for <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/11/15/lee-woodard-of-human-rights-usa-i-have/">cancers of the skin</a>, but it's useless for cancers beneath the skin, like breast cancer. All it does is to burn, and sometimes spectacularly. It's incredibly painful and quite imprecise; yet patients like Ravelle choose it even though surgery would be far less painful and wouldn't leave nearly as nasty a scar. Indeed, Hoie <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams">describes her scar thusly</a>, "She has a hole in the side of her breast larger than a large apricot that needs constant tending for hours each day (I’ve seen it; it’s not pretty)." One notes that the photo of Ravelle's breast in the article doesn't actually match Hoie's description, which makes me think it's an old photo.</p> <p>I know what happened, of course. I've seen this from time to time over the 25 years I've been in surgery. Her breast cancer grew to the point of eroding through the skin and outstripping its blood supply, which led it to die inside. What died started rotting, as any dead meat rots, liquified, leaving behind that hole. I've seen these locally advanced cases of breast cancer. They're incredibly disgusting and sometimes very painful. At times the smell is almost unbearable, even for a surgeon like me. Even if Lavelle managed to clean up the wound so that it's begun to heal some, she still has a big hole in the side of her breast that will never heal because there is still cancer there. We almost never see this sort of thing in patients who undergo treatment; it is, thankfully, rare that we lose control of the local disease so horribly. Unfortunately, this sort of presentation is not uncommon in patients who refuse conventional therapy. (Indeed, these are the only patients I've seen this sort of problem in.) At the very least, even if surgeons and oncologists couldn't have saved Lavelle's life, they could almost certainly have prevented this big hole in her breast and her going through 200 dressings a month taking care of it, as she describes on her <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams" rel="nofollow">GoFundMe page</a>.</p> <p>Overall, Ravelle's having survived three years with untreated stage III TNBC is a bit unusual. It is not, however, in any way miraculous. Breast cancer exhibits considerable variability in its biology, with different cancers progressing at very different rates and taking widely different amounts of time to metastasize For instance, Ravelle herself states that she didn't start treating herself until February 2014, a year and a half after her diagnosis, the implication being that she did nothing during that time. What happened during that time? Likely her tumor slowly progressed and then, as happens not uncommonly, its rate of progression sped up. Indeed, her <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams" rel="nofollow">GoFundMe page</a> indicates that she had to stop working in August 2014, which is why she's asking for money.</p> <p>Unfortunately, biology finally appears to be winning. Indeed, there are enough hints in the Daily Fail story and Ravelle's GoFundMe page that her cancer has likely progressed to stage IV. For instance, in the <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3282663/Woman-41-advanced-breast-cancer-REFUSES-chemotherapy-favour-drinking-urine-homoeopathy-psychic-surgeon-try-cure-herself.html" rel="nofollow">story</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Now the illness has left her feeling sick and having trouble breathing but she is still determined to go on without chemotherapy.</p> <p>'I'm using homeopathic drops and I'm going to give that a chance now,' she said. </p></blockquote> <p>I suppose that using water is better than drinking urine.</p> <p>Why is she feeling sick? Why is she short of breath? My money's on the likelihood that she has lung metastases and, quite possibly, a pleural effusion (fluid around the lungs) due to those metastases. Indeed, in the photo of Ravelle wearing a hat, said to have been taken earlier this year, she most definitely does not look entirely healthy, even with the Photoshopping.</p> <p>I understand how scary breast cancer is. Remember, my mother-in-law died of triple negative breast cancer six years ago and had brain, bowel, lung, and skin metastases when she died. I can understand the desperation. I also understand the fear of chemotherapy that drives patients to seek other options. Unfortunately, whether they're well-meaning true believers or con men, cancer quacks take advantage of that fear to sell their wares, leading women like Ravelle to jump from urine drinking, to homeopathy, to psychic surgery (yes, the story lists her as having undergone psychic surgery), <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/livemydreams" rel="nofollow">to Fred Eichhorn</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> Here’s an extract from Fred on cancer: “To many people are still looking to "KILL" cancer it because they think it is an outside invader, they do not realize that the cancer cell has the "SAME PHENOTYPE" which means it was designed by the person's DNA and made by the body, therefore, not affected by the immune system because the immune system only goes after cells with a different phenotype than the body's phenotype. These are the results of mutations. Instead of toxic applications, simply correct the atmosphere which caused the body to produce it. Then the “incorrectly made cell” can no longer survive in the corrected environment and will die from its own starvation. Society does not seem to understand that cancer and non-cancer conditions are results from incorrect biochemistry, not outside invaders. Upon correcting the biochemistry, domino effects are corrected, results are corrected. The body is a simple machine of “Action causes Reaction” totally dependent of what you supply it to cause the initiating “Action” to “Cause” the “Reaction</p> <p><a href="http://www.cellect.org">www.cellect.org</a><br /><a href="http://www.ncrf.org">www.ncrf.org</a><br /><a href="http://www.essentialsfactor.com">http://www.essentialsfactor.com</a><br /><a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cellect">https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cellect</a><br /><a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/NCRF2011/?fref=ts">www.facebook.com/groups/NCRF2011/?fref=ts</a><br /><a href="http://www.fredeichhorn.com">www.fredeichhorn.com</a></p> <p>When I came across Fred's work I got rather excited as here was an expert who has all the research and knowledge on what I had come to discover for myself over the last couple of years. </p></blockquote> <p>It is true that cancer consists of the body's own cells gone wrong (so to speak) and that there is indeed a contribution to what we in the biz call the "tumor microenvironment"; i.e., the cellular environment immediately surrounding the cancer. Tumor microenvironment includes the surrounding connective tissue, the normal and tumor blood vessels, the immune system, and basically any cell that comes in contact with the tumor, and is an active area of cancer research. Indeed, we even have a whole program at our cancer institute dedicated to studying tumor microenvironment. Here's the problem. Nothing in the above quackery corrects the "incorrect biochemistry," and mutations are forever. As I've pointed out, by the time cells become cancerous, their DNA is really, really messed up. Moreover, the body is most definitely not a "simple machine."</p> <p>If you want an idea of how bad Eichhorn's and the NCRF's understanding of cancer is, just get a load of this question:</p> <blockquote><p> Killing cancer cells is not the answer. How can you kill a cell made by the body as per DNA instructions without expecting the body to manufacture more after you killed it???? </p></blockquote> <p>My answer: It is quite possible to kill cells without the body manufacturing more. For example, if I kill neurons (perhaps by reading idiocy like the above passage), the body does not manufacture more neurons.</p> <p>I hadn't heard of CELLECT before, though. I might have to do a whole post on it, but the CliffsNotes version is that CELLECT is a <a href="http://cellect.org/serving.php" rel="nofollow">powdered concoction</a> that you mix with water or food or that can be purchased in capsule form. (If you get it in capsule form, though, be aware that one serving equals 25 capsules.) Its manufacturer says that you also have to take it with cod liver oil gelcaps. What's in CELLECT? Just a bunch of vitamins, shark cartilage, hydrolyzed collagen, milk thistle, minerals, and what's described as 74 trace minerals.</p> <p>The hilarious thing is that the CELLECT website directs readers to a page on the <a href="https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/cellect">Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center page</a> on it, which states explicitly:</p> <blockquote><p> Cellect has not been shown to treat cancer in humans. </p></blockquote> <p>And:</p> <blockquote><p> It is thought to help maintain the body’s normal functions, to boost the immune system, and to help fight cancer by fixing the body’s chemical imbalances. However, none of these claims are backed by scientific evidence. Some of the ingredients such as milk thistle may cause drug interactions. </p></blockquote> <p>And:</p> <blockquote><p> Purported uses:</p> <ul><li>Cancer Treatment: No scientific evidence supports this use.</li> <li>Health maintenance: There are no published data to back this claim.</li> <li>Immunostimulation: There is no scientific evidence to support this claim.</li> </ul></blockquote> <p>And:</p> <blockquote><p> Cellect has not been studied in clinical trials and there is no evidence that it can be used to prevent or treat any diseases in humans. We do not support using this product as a cancer treatment. </p></blockquote> <p>No wonder there's a Quack Miranda warning on the front page of the CELLECT website.</p> <p>It always depresses the hell out of me to see a young woman with a treatable cancer falling down the rabbit hole of abject quackery, such as CELLECT, homeopathy, black salve, and urine drinking. Sam Ravelle appears to have thrown her life away unnecessarily. Is it possible that she could have undergone surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation and still died? Of course it is. TNBC is a nasty cancer, and she had stage III disease. Conventional medicine makes no guarantees, nor can it save everyone with a life-threatening disease. Unfortunately, because of quacks like Fred Eichhorn, homeopaths, and the sellers of CELLECT, Sam Ravelle traded a fighting chance for no chance, and now it's very likely too late. Unfortunately, while seemingly presenting her as a cautionary tale, the Daily Fail actually made her rather appealing and provided a link to her GoFundMe page, virtually guaranteeing more donations to help her pay for her quackery.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 10/23/2015 - 02:55</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/homeopathy" hreflang="en">Homeopathy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/popular-culture" hreflang="en">Popular Culture</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/pseudoscience" hreflang="en">Pseudoscience</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/black-salve" hreflang="en">black salve</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/breast-cancer" hreflang="en">breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cellect" hreflang="en">Cellect</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/psychic-surgery" hreflang="en">psychic surgery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/triple-negative-breast-cancer" hreflang="en">triple negative breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/urine" hreflang="en">urine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/urine-drinking" hreflang="en">urine drinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/social-sciences" hreflang="en">Social Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318103" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445584702"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Unfortunately, homeopathy produces a 100% mortality rate as does urine.</p> <p>A triple negative breast cancer at age 41, I would recommend genetic testing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318103&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="2knr_8D45Rscrofai3oMTDuqjdYbcI39_VkdEddRLgU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael Finfer, MD (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318103">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318104" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445584792"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, yeah. The recommendations are for genetic testing for TNBC for anyone under 60. However, what makes you think a woman refusing all treatment would willingly undergo genetic testing, particularly given that she's following a protocol that promises to "correct" the "terrain" and reverse the tumor?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318104&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="j4Q-J-ry445a_Nrtd_vS6mzZoVxDw348ctjQcUBzj6A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318104">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318105" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445585214"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>After all, alternative medicine is all about removing “toxins” from your body, and what organ does that better from the kidneys?</p></blockquote> <p>If you start from the premise that diluting a substance makes it more powerful, as Ms. Ravelle seems to be doing, it follows that concentrating the substance makes it less powerful. It's valid logical reasoning from a faulty premise.</p> <p>Of course, you also have to overcome the squick involved in orally consuming your own waste products. It might be done, if your survival is at stake. That's the position Ms. Ravelle seems to have arrived at. What I'm not seeing is how she arrived at that position. She lives just outside London, so there should be ways for her to obtain just about any substance she might think she should ingest without having to get it from her own body's waste products.</p> <p>Worst of all, the Daily Fail describes her as a "former carer". In other words, somebody who should know better.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318105&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ugGTF-YY2Z_N4WYxcQzYcvYwhWqDYQ16AUzisiTkh3g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Eric Lund (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318105">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318106" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445589883"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I fail to see how the Daily Mail paints an appealing picture, based on how you describe the article. (I have slow internet and cannot load their website.) The descriptions of the treatment quoted from the article sound genuinely hellish, and more likely to put readers off of quack therapies. It's a rare public glimpse of how awful alt-med can be for people who probably don't read blogs like Respectful Insolence and SBM. It may be treating her as a freak, but what do you expect if you try to cure cancer by drinking pee?</p> <p>As for the photos, they were probably reliant on whatever pictures she provided or posed for.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318106&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jIod_cAtDRgyDLSsIpMDvj1BvxamqTMahktNcxBMS6o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DarkScholar82 (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318106">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318107" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445590793"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>She spread herbs over the tumour in her breast, which has left an ‘apricot-sized hole’ in her breast, in a bid to ‘bring out’ her cancer.</p> <p>‘The first time it worked well and brought three lumps out of me- it collects into a scab which falls off and then heals over- but the second time it was hell and I was in agony,’ she said. </p></blockquote> <p>At least she doesn't have to endure the "slashing, burning and poisoning".<br /> Especially the burning.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318107&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6u6nGeKja1epW_rPMbzITGdwkcH15mhTnTHIlbtNZfU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318107">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318108" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445592511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The quick answer is I don't, but I might hope she will read that comment and wake up. Probably not, but I can hope.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318108&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yjdqhdY3Nerupik6McNJp_DvX9yl0UFutsaaZj97UDM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Michael Finfer, MD (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318108">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318109" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445594716"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ahhh, the thrill of "health freedom"!</p> <p>There has to be a name in the DSMV for delusions serious enough to convince someone that a hole bigger than an apricot in your breast is an acceptable option to surgery.</p> <p>Another interesting thing is the "doctor yelled at her..." bit. I hear that from allies a lot. I've had many doctors over the years, some of whom, looking back, I asked some pretty dumb questions. Not one of them ever yelled at me. A bit condescending a couple of times, but never yelling. Mostly patient and happy to explain. I wonder why so many allies hear so much "yelling"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318109&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5atJ9T4dYEdyCIDHSBC1SBPhpHYySaWkXQx5bPFUvGI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darwinslapdog (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318109">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318110" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445595351"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alties, not allies--stupid auto-correct.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318110&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Y6ClHZYEMoqWp7a0h_Vq6m7awlFNB5ObRPj4e1FrrCM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">darwinslapdog (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318110">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318111" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445596234"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I hate reading stuff like this. I really do. I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that there is a whole whack of people out there that believe in this stuff. As a former breast cancer patient, it makes me so very angry that people who advocate things like this cannot be held accountable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318111&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ihkzhbHw7FJzhPk98_aud6AV7MplDUbveqYGD5qa5_o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">SelenaWolf (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318111">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318112" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445598902"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>and what’s described as 74 trace minerals.</p></blockquote> <p>Hydrogen through to tungsten, I expect.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318112&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ESwGWnjJoSaMqGYneFWwWsDgfouD9r1XuiDPEgKR4Nw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Woods (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318112">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318113" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445600366"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>a general plea - can you please make your images in such a way that they're bigger when we click on them? On mobile I can sort of zoom but on the desktop, they're the so small &amp; there's no zoom; I can't make out the graphs. :(</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318113&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BLl6JM5Pt2Vp8l2cxjdA5SE-UsahePc4G_5XT-w1x1U"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">margaret (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318113">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <div class="indented"> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318114" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445600669"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I take the images I can get. Those images are original size; I didn't shrink them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318114&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3DWBbakfENBRyCz27K9Eq63DKM6K_HftMbgDiyqLZWc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318114">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> <p class="visually-hidden">In reply to <a href="/comment/1318113#comment-1318113" class="permalink" rel="bookmark" hreflang="en"></a> by <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">margaret (not verified)</span></p> </footer> </article> </div> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318115" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445601552"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If I want a closer look at an image, I drag and drop it on my desktop, then use a viewer that allows easy zooming. Some websites block the drag &amp; drop process and some images are illegible anyway. Unfortunately, today's graphs fall into the latter category.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318115&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bbBzWs6hCnii7ZoOJ2FcA9ojFFaoo39edOPW607hJsQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318115">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318116" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445602137"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Margaret #11 If you click the link to the article on TNBC and then click 'Enhanced Article (HTML)' it will have zoomable (bigger) Images</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318116&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="btMkgpSe0OcOKRbNj53SvZW9zN4JaD2grnszahOAqdY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">James Peters (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318116">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318117" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445603101"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Pee-drinking is very popular in Russia and the advocates, for example, compare it with amniotic fluid and point to the smooth skin of newborns (who cares about vernix caseosa), and, of course, they also believe that organism cannot eliminate toxins, especially because of the present state of ecology (it's what they are saying), SO, I think that one should start and ask such pee-drinker to define toxin, because many of them have not got any idea. Members of another group know that toxins are material, however, they believe that pee can serve as a vaccine (does it contain miasmas? Opinions differ). And, of course, cancer - so many otherwise reasonable people become superstitious when it comes to cancer, although when compared to psychiatric or autoimmune diseases, cancer is pretty straightforward.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318117&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="iU30rBIh2e0vf_lC2UPD8KDkptKg7LUZlylxxfDFGxM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ieva (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318117">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318118" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445604191"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Big thanks to @ James Peters #14<br /> That works brilliantly. :)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318118&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="X8rtazDrOkPL1Mf1U6DUV5TQRpOJiZ0_99Brg8ZrBB4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">margaret (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318118">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318119" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445605625"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I feel bad for the woman. She's the victim here. Hopefully someday we'll be able to put the woo pushers away for negligent homicide or something.</p> <p>DarkScholar82@4</p> <blockquote><p>I fail to see how the Daily Mail paints an appealing picture, based on how you describe the article.</p></blockquote> <p>They don't really paint an appealing story but it's not very cautionary either. For example what Orac quoted about black salve is everything the Daily Mail had to say. There was no mention of how dangerous it is so it could easily be interpreted as it worked, at least the first time. In these kind of articles there's almost there's always false balance issues. To wit:</p> <blockquote><p>Critics have argued the alternative therapies do not work and can put patients at risk by moving them away from more traditional treatments.<br /> [...]<br /> Advocates of the treatments believe these excreted ingredients have health benefits including a boosted immune system.</p></blockquote> <p>darwinslapdog@7</p> <blockquote><p>Another interesting thing is the “doctor yelled at her…” bit.</p></blockquote> <p>It could be true, you never know. Actually, Ravelle's account from the Daily Mail is much more tempered.</p> <blockquote><p>'I asked what the alternative was, and when he said there was none, I walked away.'</p></blockquote> <p>Besides the yelling, I think it's very possible the oncologist did say something along the lines of:</p> <blockquote><p>‘there isn’t any and if you do anything else while I’m treating you then I’m not treating you!’</p></blockquote> <p>I've got the "no compliance equals no treatment" speech before myself. It's a liability issue. For obvious reasons he/she can't recommend unproven alternatives. Slightly less obvious is the liability from potential interactions.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318119&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ELH3DlshqU_T2jDWaAR8Y1uXU2lz_RS0KC_OQjyrX14"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">capnkrunch (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318119">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318120" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445607190"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>drinking your own urine will not cure breast cancer</i></p> <p>OK, whose urine should one drink?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318120&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yM08wlmk4KUpEwyN8dtxaHMuemPaLRy1KCLlhJsN_y4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318120">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318121" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445607448"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB,</p> <p>None. in this case, I suspect urine is the poor (wo)man's antineoplaston. In her case, I'M wondering myself if she had that line of thinking...</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318121&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="8tm2_QD3dSHgAF55O8835iF7DVH9o0VLzGG_G1Qw4Vs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318121">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318122" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445611668"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>There is the story of the horse thief brought before the king who sentenced him to death. The horse thief being quick thinker told the king if you give me year I can teach your favorite horse to sing. So every day the thief tried to teach the horse to sing. Another prisoner said you'll never teach that horse to sing. The thief replied: the horse may die, the king may die or the horse may learn to sing.</p> <p>For the wooist "dr." it would be: the patient may die, I may die or the patient may be cured somehow. No matter what I win.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318122&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x03qNSgMnoIdvz6RO_3sTDHGsDULZQLxhSEbfvmFMsU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318122">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318123" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445612189"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The custom of urine drinking seems to have originated in India or perhaps Tibet. Various application methods included drinking it and also applying it to the skin. </p> <p>Urine does contain nitrate, and in the absence of green leafy vegetables, it might be the only available source of dietary nitrate. If you let it sit, it might acquire ammonia oxidizing bacteria which would increase the nitrite/nitrate level. That is still not going to cure breast cancer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318123&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="s2hVMsmJnmxAwABaxUuBKnzEu_l35WpWmmx1ZRYRVrY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">David Whitlock (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318123">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318124" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445613490"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thank you for writing these articles. They have been healing/grieving for me this year. I appreciate the compassion and I really appreciate the truth.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318124&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SeNLAT73WdovIVo5DYVej1XKD1ffeC9hAhUTklE7fQI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">K. (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318124">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318125" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445614602"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The terribly sad thing is the denialism. It's the "If I stop thinking about it, it'll go away" approach. A friend of ours (a medical professional to boot) ignored her breast lump for nine months before seeking treatment. She died last July.</p> <p>My wife felt a lump in her breast one morning at 6am, was seen by her doctor at 10am, had it biopsied within a week and had the triple positive tumour removed two weeks later. Adjunctive chemo and radiotherapy used, disease free thus far two years on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318125&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_a11NMmWzqCQ9i92dPRZeC9UHP-kgLigQPvYkp6zp4k"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lenny (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318125">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318126" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445616435"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Actually, according to homeopathy's "like cures like", drinking her own urine (which, in some distorted way, is diluting it in all her other body fluids), she should cure herself from herself, making herself go away....Looks like she's actually succeeding...Sad story...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318126&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LjH-Z-pyGpypdh9ZXiovqdiU5dkoBVjdJ0xa9i5E2kQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Takiar (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318126">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318127" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445617549"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>CELLECT™ is a dietary supplement formulated and manufactured by CELLECT™. It is manufactured to meet the highest quality and standards set by CELLECT™.</p></blockquote> <p>So they set the standards to which they manufacture their own product? Must make things easier.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318127&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Utf-NIqlZAYlsF-fhv0_t6qjH3u5UN2FEZ5_K7n0pxg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dan Welch (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318127">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318128" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445618515"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I too have a friend who having had her initial breast cancer treated conventionally went down the path of woo when metasises (sp?) were discovered in her liver. Expensive trips to Germany and then Mexico ensued with reports of regeimes that left her sick and weak. She died earlier this year far short of the five year prognosis she had been given had she accepted further treatment. She was an intelligent woman, an IT specialist, yet she rejected the only proven treatments available to pursue the false promises these clinics offered. It makes me furious with the purveyors of this crap and with the friends who encouraged her to follow that path. Yes the chemotherapy left her sick and weak, but no more so that the fake therapies and at least she was at home with friends around to support her rather than hundreds of miles away all alone.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318128&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="jaKhKlF5V5AWHZ4eMlQlR6bSfv086p04x7XDR18a4X0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jazzlet (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318128">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318129" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445638247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>capnkrunch@17:</p> <blockquote><p>I feel bad for the woman. She’s the victim here.</p></blockquote> <p>She may be the victim, but she's also the lead perpetrator. Feel sorrier for her kids, who she'll traumatize and orphan just 'cos she can't be honest with herself.</p> <blockquote><p>Hopefully someday we’ll be able to put the woo pushers away for negligent homicide or something.</p></blockquote> <p>As I've no doubt modestly proposed before:</p> <p>Arguing against Woo is a waste of time, because Woo is a Religion and nobody ever wins an argument against that. Instead, we should be arguing <em>for</em> Complementary and Alternative Justice, wherein the distraught families and friends of Woo's victims can treat its perpetrators to a free shotgun enema without fear of censure or criticism by Big Allopathic Law.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318129&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RuEImUsIqgvujhaLbkT0O_HjzlRTnDgbhsrX1CcSVQA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">has (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318129">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318130" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445640270"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>These stories always make me shiver. A little over a year ago I watched my 50 year old mother-in-law die slowly from untreated cancer. She also was using homeopathy and diets instead of seeing a real physician. This blog is so important, and I'm really glad to see people getting educated on how to avoid horrible quacks that tell them not to get chemo when they need it. Props to all of you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318130&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6ehlhI4H5BQVEalJ-8hpioq-66A9QxGTOlm7H7xc8QY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Annie (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318130">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318131" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445658879"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Drinking sperm may be better, as men seem to have some protection against breast cancer.</p> <p><a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sji.12348/full">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sji.12348/full</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318131&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sv-kuRrGagqDo-VO1F-kKmlwSf4Jh-prk_gcc111vPs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 23 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318131">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318132" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445665676"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>has@27</p> <blockquote><p>She may be the victim, but she’s also the lead perpetrator.</p></blockquote> <p>I'd have to disagree with you. She's not selling something like Jess Ainscough was. Really the peddlers of woo and those who promote them (all the natural health bloggers) are the bad guys here.</p> <p>Of course it's possible she would've chosen no treatment regardless but that is much more difficult choice to make when you're not inundated with the flood of crap about profiteering cut, burn, poisoners and secret natural cures.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318132&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="utUxzVXibN8GGdAzwxR-DK49cSaZblqtbwOaHGZDJ5s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">capnkrunch (not verified)</span> on 24 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318132">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318133" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445670712"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>capnkrunch: She's the perpetrator in that she's the one making the choice to harm herself and those around her. That she also chooses to deny the harm this choice is doing does <em>not</em> let her off the hook. (Something I know all about having done it often enough myself; hence the ration of sympathy.)</p> <p>Sure, the altie blood suckers belong in a whole 'nother circle of Hell again for their part in the subsequent tragedy. But when a person is so utterly determined to lie to herself with no regard to the pain and damage this causes, it should not be a surprise that they would join in as well. By abdicating responsibility to protect herself - and, by extension, all those around her - she made herself the victim.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318133&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="W3qri3lY1ushJFbz6_MRLY5FaS76hNwR--M_ezX6adE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">has (not verified)</span> on 24 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318133">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318134" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445746330"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>For the odd proponent of alt med for cancer who might be reading this, in all of my 40 plus years of studies on medicinal and other plants, including many traditionally used against cancer, well over 20 years ago, I lost count of the number of people who died despite their use. Having also watched the advances in cancer therapy over the same time, in some cases due to plant-derived chemicals, it boggles my mind to think that anyone would refuse so-called conventional medicine to treat cancer. </p> <p>Having visited the homes of those who died from their tumors, despite the use of alt med, I've seen the waste first-hand and met the angry relatives. A small fortune in herbal and other 'natural' products – from Essiac to pau d'arco, venus's flytrap, chaparral, apricot seed extract, cannabis, vitamins, minerals, and sundry mushroom products, to name a handful of unsuccessful, unproven wares – hawked to the ignorant by those who prey upon the weak. Many of the hawkers believe their own lies, or have never acquired the knowledge to discriminate what constitutes an effective treatment from one based on wishful thinking. Others know full well that the products they sell are worthless as treatments for cancer. I've met more than I care or dare to mention; some being members of organized crime syndicates, and others powerful people in the dietary supplement business whose only care is to make a buck, and will viciously attack anyone who interferes. Some were more honest than others, telling me personally that if people are so gullible, who are they to stand in the way of an ongoing demand for the products? To do otherwise would be socialist and against so-called "health freedom". </p> <p>More often than not, the patients I knew were terminal. Given no hope of successful treatment, they tried anything anyone held out. In other cases, they had already received conventional treatments, refused any more, and resorted alternative treatments. As Orac has repeatedly mentioned, there is no evidence that the alternative treatments were effective after patients had received conventional treatments, but they get touted as effective anyway, and their myth and sale to the gullible continues. </p> <p>Like Orac, I find it all so depressing. For many years I avoided even reading about cases. Now that I'm older and cantankerous, I don't hesitate to voice my anger, no matter who is involved.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318134&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FrllCxSOnbPnUqflMtjnJSdC4dRMKg0J2-pP76qcHc8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318134">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318135" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445747511"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dare I add that any company selling shark cartilage should be put out of business. Apart from the fact that sharks are endangered, their cartilage is demonstrably ineffective.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318135&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ymy7CRZXzy_pf7ja18X1xVc4A3FuZvfDCXb_32NBYDc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318135">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318136" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445757758"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"In Ravelle’s case, she did nothing, other than drink her own pee and go to homeopathic quacks. (Does diluting them make them stronger?)"</p> <p>Yes, well this is one of the miracles of homeopathy. We all drink diluted urine every day. This has demonstrably reduced the incidence of smallpox and polio and all sorts of other diseases. Homeopathy rules!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318136&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0xtSAtAKgrizdZ6fG7wEDjjRrYWC_RwTwG9ZTQu03ZE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Windriven (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318136">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318137" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445776099"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Two gifts in one:</p> <p><a href="http://wonkette.com/595295/the-snake-oil-bulletin-sesame-street-holocausting-your-children">http://wonkette.com/595295/the-snake-oil-bulletin-sesame-street-holocau…</a></p> <p>First part of the article discusses raving lunacy from Mike Adams directed at Sesame Street..</p> <p>Second part concerns Australian "mommy blogger" who, as I understand it, was recently accused of injecting urine into her daughter's IV while the daughter was hospitalized.</p> <p>The daughter was apparently born with an unnamed genetic condition.</p> <p>The article mentions "Munchausen by Proxy" however, having read about the various "cures" some parents of autistic children inflict upon their child, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point a claim is made concerning urine as a "treatment" for the genetic condition.</p> <p>I mean, according to some "resources":</p> <p><a href="http://www.biomedx.com/urine/">http://www.biomedx.com/urine/</a></p> <p>urine seems to be the answer for "Multiple sclerosis, colitis, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, hepatitis, hyperactivity, pancreatic insufficiency, psoriasis, eczema, diabetes, herpes, mononucleosis, adrenal failure, allergies and so many other ailments"</p> <p>I wish it was beyond my imagination that some parents might be inflicting this on their child but, it isn't.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318137&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PhazxjKT9u8KgrJI7bLWJ1dcf-OSdFU61djbgE1Beps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">DGR (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318137">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318138" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445780406"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Totally off-topic but ran across <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/051698_baby_donkey_Hosanna_Health_Ranger.html">this amusing article</a> on NN where Mikey stops <i>just</i> short of calling himself Jesus.</p> <blockquote><p>In other words, Jesus was an anti-establishment figure who wasn't afraid to expose the lunacy of those who worship material things and adorn themselves with expensive forms of transportation. Sounds like the kind of person I admire! In a world where so many people are driven by symbols of wealth and glamour, <b>I live a non-glamorous life</b> [...]</p></blockquote> <p>Note the emphasis was in the original. What a lunatic. How's the plans for Adamstown coming along? Mikey has been sipping his own Kool-Aid for a while now.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318138&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xRAaZf_KwLR4KD7HOSi2ZVpnybeacPXEJ4OhHrhi5RQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">capnkrunch (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318138">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318139" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445781178"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Those donkeys are more modest and smarter than Mikey.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318139&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d4OModCuhkxGYssmvOwUYYojjiYt3bIaEn2noR2VenU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318139">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318140" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445826540"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I apologize for the reference I gave about about drinking sperm, which was not fully related to the subject.<br /> I found two links which I think are more relevant, one of them in French, more detailed.<br /><a href="http://www.sementherapy.com">http://www.sementherapy.com</a><br /><a href="http://www.terrafemina.com/vie-privee/sexo/articles/27321-le-sperme-et-ses-bienfaits-sur-la-sante.html">http://www.terrafemina.com/vie-privee/sexo/articles/27321-le-sperme-et-…</a><br /> Unfortunately, the Californian team could not get their results published, as judged by PubMed, but they are undertaking a prospective study that seems more rewarding.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318140&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RIoPk3WQRqz-uNrwvnsHCIffoerdXsWCTTkBRtflH0I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318140">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318141" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445830198"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You are proceeding along a strange line of reasoning, Daniel, even by my poorly-filtered and loosely-associated standards.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318141&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hoWozinWXtQvoYdxoZDq6k2eU8zL5oMDvcd_BaU389A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318141">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318142" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445830791"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>There’s one alternative treatment whose rationale I’ve never been able to wrap my brain around. </p></blockquote> <p>I think it follows more or less from the first law of alternative medicine:<br /> 1. The universe is a benevolent place.<br /> This law has a corollary<br /> 1a. Therefore, a cure for any illness is provided by nature in a way that is easily accessible, you just have to find it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318142&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="erzRmX_I2H9IcNZXIWBo5jTnvATC8_tCRTIJw9YDgAk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">MartinB (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318142">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318143" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445831957"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Two gifts in one:<br /><a href="http://wonkette.com/595295/the-snake-oil-bulletin-sesame-street-holocausting-your-children">http://wonkette.com/595295/the-snake-oil-bulletin-sesame-street-holocau…</a><br /> First part of the article discusses raving lunacy from Mike Adams directed at Sesame Street..</i></p> <p>The Wonkette Snake-Oil Bulletin is all very well but a few weeks ago <a href="http://wonkette.com/594735/the-snake-oil-bulletin-oh-look-more-mommies-who-know-science-better-than-doctors">they confused macaques with chimpanzees</a>, and now I can NEVER RESPECT THEM AGAIN.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318143&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N3jCeuOTQ29sYUmoCfOkqUUa66VAgG3NpqDysONWmK0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 25 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318143">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318144" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445832499"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lighthorse #32</p> <blockquote><p>To do otherwise would be socialist and against so-called “health freedom”.</p></blockquote> <p>Socialist, I wouldn't know, but what about being <i>socialized</i>?<br /> As in, realizing the ones a quack is fleecing are human beings right next door.</p> <p>I understand your anger, meeting these self-centered !diots.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318144&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fuDyxwF7o57pjdON6N3buH2jKaWy_MDIFmxmLXUmNoY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318144">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318145" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445834467"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Helianthus #42: Here's another one:</p> <p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/carl-george-opts-for-natural-treatments-after-terminal-diagnosis-1.3285551">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/carl-george-opts-fo…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318145&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DnTLLVo0K0Ko8XpfI3mlT-8k8JBhcSx3EhtDDSpnhBk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lighthorse (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318145">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318146" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445838556"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Lynne McTaggart (of "What Doctors Don't Tell You" infamy) is also going off on the "Do we need to kill cancer" theme, although her take on it is a little different...</p> <p><a href="http://www.lynnemctaggart.com/blog/333-do-we-have-to-kill-cancer">http://www.lynnemctaggart.com/blog/333-do-we-have-to-kill-cancer</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318146&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mKXGoIAPMaFQyd8m0QRak4bC-q4xLsxryAFnlcd_Tng"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Scopie (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318146">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318147" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445843501"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The Wonkette Snake-Oil Bulletin is all very well but a few weeks ago they confused macaques with chimpanzees, and now I can NEVER RESPECT THEM AGAIN.</p></blockquote> <p>I believe Zira said something similar about Cornelius after one late night.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318147&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dxKC_dto0qBUqTO6wSLNOsCHxwzHsQNnKpEPJEkz07M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318147">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318148" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445858027"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I know this is just tangentially related, but I thought it might interest everyone.<br /><a href="http://joyreactor.com/post/2261432">http://joyreactor.com/post/2261432</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318148&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M9l4-oXZ8UwBbsSCG1HMMNOGpqaUqAikaZkKjPXqBDQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318148">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318149" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445858189"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>And one more.<br /><a href="http://joyreactor.com/post/2260486">http://joyreactor.com/post/2260486</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318149&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PUpbwzh3_xHuycfb6FrbzSpFVr8Y7TuTf6udVEMebMY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Julian Frost (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318149">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318150" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445859427"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ capnkrunch:</p> <p>Right. Occasionally, Mikey goes off on a Christian rant- I assume it's just another attempt to attract customers. Notice which name 'won' his little contest. But , delusions of grandeur, why not?</p> <p>As I've noted elsewhere, both he and the other idiot have been frightening followers about the dangers of coastal and city life and extolling the values of rural, sustainable central/ eastern Texas. They both bought land and set up operations - a ranch and a spa/ resort/ woo/ estate -<br /> AND both have been hit by torrential rains, floods and nearby wild fires TWICE in the past 6 months!<br /> Mike writes a little about his past "charity" efforts and current issues. The other had to fly in to manage the situation a few months back.</p> <p>I suppose their paradises are also prone to natural disaster- just like the places on which they heap scorn.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318150&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="J6wCf9A4bMYXfS2ZnN8mfJXsiUfdxQ3991H3vkxTtl4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318150">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318151" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445859768"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>JoyReactor<br /><a href="http://joyreactor.com/post/2261432">http://joyreactor.com/post/2261432</a><br /> Yes there was nothing about urine or sperm.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318151&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="76b3xEfitcXj3zUVtFVvnH8i6IO0Jz1G4Chjef0xB_w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318151">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318152" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445860177"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oops the message was for Julian Frost.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318152&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LBGVvLpmJP6I6YicT5_g6xLmG1B0mWpt8kroh6WbPQo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Daniel Corcos (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318152">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318153" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445869239"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Denice Walter@48</p> <blockquote><p>AND both have been hit by torrential rains, floods and nearby wild fires TWICE in the past 6 months!</p></blockquote> <p>That's some Old Testament wrath. Are they Job or Aaron I wonder.</p> <p>Here's some more from the ever humble Mikey from yesterday. Keep in mind that this from <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/051699_bitcoin_miner_boot_dryer_Health_Ranger_inventions.html">an article</a> about how he uses the heat generated from high-end bitcoin mining ASIC's to dry his boots.</p> <blockquote><p>See how un-glamorous my life is?</p></blockquote> <p>Yes, poor Mikey. He is still stuck using the Antminer S5 when the first batch of S7's shipped last month.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318153&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZuBSzTNvAYgOu0wcz-qIm53U2lJkZuwumllXDNKJIhk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">capnkrunch (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318153">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318154" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445870297"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>A relative of mine was treated for DISC many years ago and opted to complement her conventional treatment with all manner of dietary changes and supplements. At that time her docs just ignored it because there was no apparent interference with chemo drugs. This year an acquaintance was similarly diagnosed and chose her own grab bag of dietary changes and supplements with far different results. She was told in no uncertain terms that dietary changes would do no good whatsoever and that any alternative remedy she used on herself would require finding another doctor pronto. I'm surprised at the vehemence of this and wonder whether some old-school oncologists are just getting incredibly frustrated by the emergence of CAM cancer centers offering whatever exotic form of magic/massage/mysterious potions they can get away with. The local Cancer Center of America offers reiki, therapeutic touch, etc. I wonder whether there's a general backlash brewing or whether her doc is the exception.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318154&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TLQJatOUxXT9FJfRI8pOS9rFP6vLMnIKrZMtgMUFEEw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Sara (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318154">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318155" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445883922"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>#40</p> <p>Whatever gave alt med the idea the universe is a benevolent place?</p> <p>Except where has made it safer (only safer not safe) the universe will end your life with no after thought.</p> <p>So your corollary does not follow.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318155&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="gog35DJnFYY6uNvaokfVoNN5vMINaBDqAqbwzSrJrSQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Rich Bly (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318155">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318156" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445893210"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't stand the alt med people who seem to descend on those who have cancer diagnoses - they are vultures, willing and ready to pick to the bone any vestige of dignity, quality, and meaningful life that the person has left to them. I know there are some who believe the crap they espouse, but there are many more who just see it as a way to make a buck. It's sickening.<br /> I can understand how some patients can be so desperate to live that they will try anything, and simply don't want to hear bad prognoses, jeebus knows I've been involved in those conversations as a nurse. But to be so deluded that you agree to be interviewed by any media, even with the best of intentions, shifts a portion of consequential responsibility onto you, imo.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318156&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wCogJXSf6CHer4MSFrcJCagoSMWrW_iKc9tAp-D5bz4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ausduck (not verified)</span> on 26 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318156">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318157" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445926002"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Rich #44</p> <p>'Kin'ell! Even by McTaggart's lowest-of-the-low standards that is very poor.</p> <p>And the comments, FFS, the comments...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318157&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="egBQ7H9LDqSuDcTMC59YXZDu7dsC2gTkTN1ZognNTF0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Murmur (not verified)</span> on 27 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318157">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318158" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1445963270"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Just feel blessed that my SIL went straight to surgery when she got her breast cancer diagnosis in her 40s. The follow-up radiation left her weak for quite a while, but her attitude always was, "This is what needs to be done to maximize my chances of surviving." 4 years now. Fingers crossed. She and my brother had their own business which was not doing well in the then-current economy, but she researched and found a State of California program for women with breast cancer that covered the great majority of her medical costs.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318158&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="bejbo15nxGDLQn4XKtA-eMPkJ5jPhVbQfRje1iFh_gY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Erik1986 (not verified)</span> on 27 Oct 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318158">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318159" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1446660330"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Cellect and Fred eichorn are a total fraud. I have first hand knowledge as I watch my loved one get sicker and sicker over time and now close to death when he had a 85% chance of a cure. Tons of money to Fred's sister company and direct medical advice not to combine with conventional medicine ! Heartless and foul.. Disgusting.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318159&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yb4Ol7GQV2TsjekRrZuAQ7MgL64zGY5VJWzqdYWfJ_s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alex Couzens (not verified)</span> on 04 Nov 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318159">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318160" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1449801910"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>As a friend of Sam's over many decades, and as a person that helped care for her at home, until she passed, I feel impelled to comment on this article. Firstly, I would like to commend the person that wrote this with their sound advice and statistics. Most of Sam's friends had tried to convince her to take the conventional route, researched trials and provided information - we failed. I also wanted to mention that the tabloids did in fact miss quote Sam on many things. Urine therapy was not how she was treating her cancer, it was something she had tried in the past, but, I don't want to side track the issue. Sam passed away sadly as expected and her funeral is today. My aim is to provide facts and if it makes an impression on one person to reconsider homeapathic medicine - placebo affect, then something good will have come out of it. Sam had a cavity that was 13 by 14 cm of fungating breast tissue, full of infection. The pain she endured was incredible, and although she was brave and full of dignity, it was a tough road and hard to watch. Any product or person promising a cure for cancer should be legally prosecuted! Even medical doctors can only offer a statistic of a possible survival rate! Sam was being treated by a charlaton (Dr Jacobs - using some German drops that had nothing cancer killing in them) telling her she was no worse. The days proceeding her appointment she had a stent placed due to odemas placing pressure on her Jugular, and another main artery, we nearly lost her. This man is only selling hope at a small fortune. Please, anyone person considering alternative medicine as a cure, simply don't, not only does it cost a small fortune, you are making these people rich by paying for hope. The end results is devastating and too late to reverse. Many thanks, L</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318160&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KeQyaLbNbQQXzZUNFbhGwW95nPL5kK3cR6-R_cIqufM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lisa M (not verified)</span> on 10 Dec 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318160">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1318161" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1450067229"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Lisa M<br /> I am sorry to read that...<br /> Thank you for informing readers here of the (sad) follow-up of this story, since I doubt the Daily Mail will do it.<br /> I wish you and her family well.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1318161&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vwckRj_g1C6-Q0r44aOuQq7xeL1LVaZ3tdDypbnXALw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LouV (not verified)</span> on 13 Dec 2015 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1318161">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2015/10/23/public-service-announcement-no-drinking-your-own-urine-will-not-cure-breast-cancer%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 23 Oct 2015 06:55:42 +0000 oracknows 22163 at https://www.scienceblogs.com "Autism-induced" breast cancer https://www.scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/11/07/autism-induced-breast-cancer <span>&quot;Autism-induced&quot; breast cancer</span> <div class="field field--name-body field--type-text-with-summary field--label-hidden field--item"><div align="center"> <a href="/files/insolence/files/2014/11/breastcanceraware.jpg"><img src="/files/insolence/files/2014/11/breastcanceraware.jpg" alt="breastcanceraware" width="400" height="400" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-9167" /></a> </div> <p>Gayle DeLong has been diagnosed with what she refers to <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/11/the-lesser-of-two-evils-breast-cancer-and-autism.html" rel="nofollow">as “autism-induced” breast cancer.”</a> She’s even given it an abbreviation, AIBC. Unfortunately, as you might be able to tell by the name she’s given her breast cancer, she is also showing signs of falling into the same errors in thinking with respect to her breast cancer as she clearly has with respect to autism. As a breast cancer surgeon, regardless of my personal opinion of DeLong’s anti-vaccine beliefs, I can only hope that she comes to her senses and undergoes science-based treatment, but I fear she will not, as you will see. Her brief post announcing her diagnosis and blaming it on autism, however, does provide what I like to call a “teachable moment” about cancer.</p> <p>We’ve <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/?s=gayle+delong">met DeLong before</a> on this blog. For instance, she published an execrably bad study that—of course!—tried to link vaccine to autism and failed miserably, despite doing some amazing contortions of analysis, combining diagnoses willy-nilly, all in the service of the discredited vaccine-autism hypothesis. As I <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/08/more-bad-science-in-the-service-of-the-discredited-idea/">said at the time</a>, it just goes to show that someone who is an associate professor of economics and finance shouldn’t be doing epidemiological research. As I also described at the time, if the sorts of analytical techniques she used in her study are acceptable in the world of economics and finance, no wonder our economy has been so screwed up for so long. Another time, DeLong <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/03/06/using-conflicts-of-interest/">wrote a broadside</a> against the regulatory machinery that oversees vaccine development and safety that was full of the usual antivaccine misinformation, tropes, and pseudoscience and hugely exaggerated perceived “conflicts of interest” among the various parties.</p> <!--more--><p>So it’s not surprising that DeLong <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/11/the-lesser-of-two-evils-breast-cancer-and-autism.html" rel="nofollow">latches on to dealing with her autistic children as the cause of her cancer</a>:</p> <blockquote><p> I have autism-induced breast cancer (AIBC). While I am not absolutely certain that the 1.9 centimeter lump that grew in my left breast is the result of the stress of raising two autistic children, all indications point in that direction. There is virtually no cancer in my family, I eat organically, I exercise, I’m a good weight. OK, so I live in the toxic dump known as New Jersey, but that is the only other major risk factor. No, the drop in cortisol levels whenever one kid’s school calls or the other kid has a public “flare up” is enough for the cancer to take root. </p></blockquote> <p>First of all, it’s very telling to me that she blames her breast cancer diagnosis on having to take care of her autistic children as the root cause of her breast cancer. The implication, of course, is that her decision to vaccinate her children is what led to their autism and her breast cancer. Be that as it may, notice how DeLong is very emphatic in proclaiming her healthy lifestyle bona fides and that there’s “no cancer in my family.” It’s a very common misconception about breast cancer (indeed, nearly all cancer) that it must be familial. In the case of breast cancer, while it’s true that there is a familial component and that there are genes, such as BRCA1 or BRCA2, that, when mutated, result in an enormously elevated lifetime risk of breast cancer compared to women without them, the simple fact is that only around 10-15% of breast cancer cases have a familial or genetic component. That means around 85% of breast cancer cases are what we in the biz call “sporadic.” That basically means “we can’t identify a specific cause.” True, there are well-characterized risk factors for breast cancer, such as age, early menarche, late menopause, nulliparity, and others, but the magnitude of the risk increase due to these factors is way less than, say, a strong family history (i.e., a first degree relative with breast cancer) or an identified cancer-predisposing mutation in BRCA1.</p> <p>Of course, people don’t like the concept of “sporadic” cancer, mainly because humans crave explanation. The default assumption is that everything must happen for a reason and there must be a cause for every disease or cancer. Perhaps the most emphatic statement of this that I’ve <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/mike-adams-on-dr-mehmet-ozs-colon-polyps-spontaneous-disease/">encountered thus far</a> comes from (who else?) uber-quack Mike Adams when he heaped contempt on the idea of sporadic disease as “spontaneous disease.” <a href="http://www.naturalnews.com/029655_colon_polyps_Doctor_Oz.html" rel="nofollow">He did this in the context of a story</a> four years ago when America’s quack, Dr. Mehmet Oz, followed recommended care and underwent screening colonoscopy to look for polyps and was shocked that he actually had some:</p> <blockquote><p> Dr Oz even seems to think he has a perfect health record, saying, "I have done everything right. I don't have any family history, and yet I'm high risk now." His personal physician, meanwhile, is implying that even though Dr Oz's "healthy" diet was perfect, it wasn't enough to prevent colon polyps, and therefore you might get them too. (And therefore everybody should get screened...) </p></blockquote> <p>This led Adams to bloviate:</p> <blockquote><p> Colon polyps, in other words, <strong>appear without any cause!</strong> Mainstream medicine, you see, believes in the theory of "spontaneous disease" that "strikes" people at random.</p> <p>Sort of like disease voodoo.</p> <p>No matter what you do, they say, you can't be totally sure that you're disease free. Therefore, you need all their disease screening protocols, mammograms, and CT scans (which irradiate your body and can actually cause cancer, by the way).</p> <p>What a bunch of nonsense. As any real scientist knows, everything that happens in our universe has a cause. It's a cause-effect universe, and unless you're God or can magically change the laws of the universe, you can't alter the laws of cause and effect.</p> <p>So if you develop colon polyps, there is a cause for it, and that cause is without question related to the foods you're consuming, because that's what is in contact with your small intestine, large intestine and colon. (It's not the only factor, but it's the primary factor.) </p></blockquote> <p>This is exactly the sort of thinking DeLong is exhibiting. It’s understandable, particularly when you’ve been diagnosed with a potentially life-threatening disease. Indeed, it’s quintessentially <strong><em>human</em></strong>. It’s also wrong. At least, it’s wrong in the sense that while, yes, there are <em><strong>causes</strong></em> of breast cancer (or colon polyps or whatever), but they are often highly multifactorial and can’t be placed into a simple “box” of diet, lifestyle, or failing to do the “right” thing. This whole idea feeds into magical thinking (which I’ve seen voiced before many times) that every disease can be prevented, if only you would do the right thing. The dark side of such thinking, of course, is the opposite assumption, which goes something like this: If every disease has a definite non-inherent (i.e., non-genetic) cause, such as crappy diet, then it’s the victim’s fault, in part or in whole, for getting sick. We’ve seen this <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/10/16/is-bill-maher-really-that-ignorant-part/">same thinking from Bill Maher</a> before as well when a few years ago he attacked the flu vaccine and proclaimed that the “soil” matters much more than the seed; i.e., if you live a healthy lifestyle and eat a healthy diet, your “soil” won’t be conducive to the flu virus and you won’t get the flu. This reached a ridiculous extreme when Maher proclaimed that he was so healthy that he wouldn’t get flu even if exposed in a closed-in space like an airplane, leading Bob Costas to snort, “<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/02/24/is-bill-maher-really-that-ignorant-part-3/">Oh, come on, Superman!</a>” Sometimes this thinking goes beyond even Maher's, in that cancer or other diseases are blamed on "psychic trauma" or some other psychological factor. This idea is at the very heart of the quackery known as German New Medicine. The attraction of such ideas is obvious: They give the illusion of control, that you as a cancer patient can cure yourself if only you will it enough and act on that will. The dark side of this idea is an even worse version of what I just described. Now, it's not only your fault for being sick because you didn't live a "good" lifestyle, but you're sick because you either lack the will not to be sick or you secretly <em>want</em> to be sick.</p> <p>As for the idea that stress can cause cancer, even the National Cancer Institute proclaims the evidence that stress can cause cancer to be “<a href="http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/stress">weak</a>,” further pointing out that there is “no strong evidence that stress directly affects cancer outcomes.” Indeed, the evidence with respect to stress and cancer is at worst conflicting, at best <a href="http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/healthyliving/cancercontroversies/stress/stress-and-cancer2">quite negative</a>, with the occasional study hyped in dubious outlets like the <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-197283/Stress-doubles-breast-cancer.html">Daily Mail</a> being proclaimed as evidence that stress causes cancer, but a <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23393080">recent meta-analysis</a> of 116,000 people, found no significant correlation between stress and bowel, lung, breast or prostate cancers. So, despite its being a very common and intuitively seemingly reasonable idea that stress and cancer are linked, they almost certainly are not, at least not as far as causation. That’s not to say that chronic, unrelenting life stress is a good thing for your health, but evidence strongly suggests that it doesn’t increase the risk of cancer. So, while it’s understandable that DeLong might think the stress of her raising two autistic children is the cause of her breast cancer diagnosis, she’s wrong about that. What’s more disturbing to me is how she views her children’s autism as the cause of her cancer to the point of even calling it “autism-induced breast cancer” and giving it an abbreviation AIBC.</p> <p>Even worse is how she views autism itself as being as bad as cancer. Actually, I get the distinct feeling she views it as worse than cancer, given the title of her post <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/11/the-lesser-of-two-evils-breast-cancer-and-autism.html" rel="nofollow">The Lesser of Two Evils: Breast Cancer and Autism</a>. Look at her comparison between how cancer is viewed and her perception of how autism is viewed:</p> <blockquote><p> So, I speak from experience when I say Stage 1 breast cancer has nothing on autism. The differences are vast and significant. Unlike autism, no one is telling me to “celebrate” my cancer. No one is telling me that cancer is “just a different way for cells to grow.” People have told me that we’ve always had cancer, but no one is using that is an excuse for not doing anything about it. No one is blaming me (or my mother) for my cancer. Unlike a person with autism, society does not say my cancer is my fault. Another difference is that in three years, I’ll either be dead or cured. Autism is not tangible, so it neither exists concretely nor definitely leaves the body. Although cancer could do to me what autism did to Avonte Oquendo, the chances of dying from a tumor that I treat properly are small and growing smaller. </p></blockquote> <p>First off, unless DeLong’s cancer is a certain subtype called triple negative (and even then not entirely), it’s not true that in three years she’ll be cured or dead. Such a binary outlook! Estrogen receptor-positive [ER(+)] tumors can recur 5, 10, 15, and even 20+ years later, and the treatment for ER(+) tumors involves Tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor for at least five years. Indeed, trends based on clinical research showing better results are moving towards the recommendation of ten years of anti-estrogen therapy to reduce recurrence risk. Triple negative tumors, while more aggressive at the outset, tend not to recur after five years, usually recurring within three years, but they certainly can recur later. More offensive is her explicit likening of autism to cancer, in which she proclaims that “no one is telling me that cancer is ‘just a different way for cells to grow.’” This suggests to me that she views her autistic children as cancers or at least their autism as bad as any cancer, hence her resentment at the neurodiversity movement that seeks to destigmatize autism.</p> <p>Avonte Oquendo, by the way, was a teenage boy with autism who <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/nyregion/details-in-avonte-oquendo-investigation-are-released.html">walked out his school</a> to go missing and whose remains were <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/22/nyregion/remains-found-in-queens-are-matched-to-missing-autistic-boy.html">found months later</a>. In other words, DeLong makes the connection between her view of cancer and her view of autism even more explicit: Both to her are killer diseases, but there is a difference. Her cancer is potentially curable.</p> <p>Finally, if there’s one similarity we see between antivaccine thinking and other quackery, it’s made explicit by DeLong:</p> <blockquote><p> However, one major similarity exists between breast cancer and autism: the “wisdom” of the experts. The standard of care for cancer includes popping this sucker out of my breast, and I’m fine with that. However, I’m more than a bit uneasy about the radiation treatment that the surgeon has recommended post-op. Taking a sledge hammer to my breast may indeed kill the cancer, but what about the organ that lies directly under my breast, my heart? If 10 or 20 years from now I develop a heart condition – which is also unheard of in my family – would it be the result of the radiation or just bad stuff happening to good people? The cancer experts don’t care; after all, the cancer didn’t return! Except that sometimes (often?) cancer does return, perhaps because radiation can cause cancer? And don’t get me started about chemo! I didn’t question the established wisdom concerning vaccines, and my kids have autism. I won’t repeat that mistake. I’ll look for alternatives, weigh the options, and determine the best path for me. Amazing how a little pain in the breast can turn one into a huge pain in the derrière. </p></blockquote> <p>So her magical thinking with respect to vaccines is leading to magical thinking with respect to her cancer. I find it rather odd many times how patients often have no problem with surgery for their cancer but have so much trouble with other options. Of course, “cutting out” the tumor makes intuitive sense, so much so that I’ve not infrequently had patients show up in my clinic expecting that I would be doing just that that very day. In the old days, surgery alone was it, too; it’s the oldest and most reliable treatment for early stage breast cancer.</p> <p>I’m assuming that the surgeon recommended a lumpectomy/partial mastectomy because DeLong has a stage I cancer (clinically, at least) and he’s recommending radiation. What DeLong doesn’t understand is that there’s a reason for the radiation. If she undergoes lumpectomy and doesn’t follow it up with radiation, the local recurrence rate (the chance of her tumor recurring in her breast near the surgery site) is 30-40%. With radiation, it’s in the range of 5-8%. That’s a huge difference. Of course, as I’ve described in many of <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/09/28/the-testimonial-of-hollie-quinn-the-huff/">my analyses of breast cancer testimonials</a> going right back to the <a href="http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2004/12/understanding-alternative-medicine.html">very beginning of this blog nearly 10 years ago</a>, in which women undergo surgery but refuse chemotherapy and radiation, it’s still more likely than not that the tumor won’t recur, but a roughly one in three chance of recurrence are not odds that I would be willing to take, particularly when the risk of serious heart impairment due to “collateral damage” from the radiation is so low when modern techniques are used. She’s also quite incorrect that radiation oncologists “don’t care” if she gets radiation-induced cardiac disease because “the cancer is gone.” They care very, very much. An enormous amount of research over the last three decades has gone into developing techniques that minimize the risk of heart damage.</p> <p>The other question is chemotherapy. If DeLong has a stage I tumor, then it’s quite possible she might not even need chemotherapy! If her tumor is not HER2(+) but is ER(+), and she doesn’t have any positive lymph nodes, what will be recommended is Tamoxifen if she’s premenopausal or an aromatase inhibitor if she is postmenopausal. If she’s triple negative (negative for ER, progesterone receptor, and HER2), chemotherapy will be recommended, as it will if she’s node positive regardless of markers. If she’s HER2(+), chemotherapy with Herceptin or one of the newer anti-HER2 agents will be recommended. In any case, the benefit of chemotherapy in early stage breast cancer tends to be relatively low as an absolute percentage; so it’s quite possible to refuse chemotherapy and do fine. The veritable plethora of “I refused chemotherapy and I’m fine” breast cancer testimonials that I’ve analyzed over the years attests to that. It’s just that DeLong should understand that if she refuses recommended chemotherapy she is increasing her risk of recurrence and death due to cancer. In early stage breast cancer, that increased risk might only be a few percent, but she needs to understand now that if she refuses chemotherapy and does well, it will be because of the surgery that removed her tumor and (if she accepts it) the radiation that reduced the risk of local recurrence, not due to any “alternative” treatments she ends up choosing to use after surgery.</p> <p>What I fear we’re seeing right here is the beginning of yet another alternative breast cancer cure testimonial. DeLong will likely have surgery and then refuse radiation and chemotherapy. Assuming she doesn’t have any positive lymph nodes (which might or might not turn out to be true), the odds are more likely than not that she’ll probably be OK, but her survival and failure to recur, assuming that’s what happens, will be due to surgery and a lot of luck to have dodged the 30-40% chance of local recurrence. Her odds could be so much better if she just accepted everything modern oncology has to offer for treating breast cancer, and her survival and lack of recurrence. Our locations on opposite sides of the divide over vaccines notwithstanding, I sincerely hope she does just that, because I hope that she does not become <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/11/08/a-different-kind-of-testimonial/">this kind of breast cancer testimonial</a>.</p> </div> <span><a title="View user profile." href="/oracknows" lang="" about="/oracknows" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">oracknows</a></span> <span>Fri, 11/07/2014 - 03:30</span> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-tags field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Tags</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine-nonsense" hreflang="en">Antivaccine nonsense</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/quackery-0" hreflang="en">Quackery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/skepticismcritical-thinking" hreflang="en">Skepticism/Critical Thinking</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/surgery" hreflang="en">surgery</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/alternative-cancer-cures" hreflang="en">alternative cancer cures</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/antivaccine" hreflang="en">antivaccine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/autism-induced-breast-cancer" hreflang="en">autism-induced breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/breast-cancer" hreflang="en">breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/chemotherapy" hreflang="en">chemotherapy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/gayle-delong" hreflang="en">Gayle DeLong</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/local-recurrence" hreflang="en">local recurrence</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/radiation-therapy" hreflang="en">radiation therapy</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/stress" hreflang="en">stress</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/survival" hreflang="en">Survival</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/tamoxifen" hreflang="en">Tamoxifen</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/testimonials" hreflang="en">testimonials</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/triple-negative-breast-cancer" hreflang="en">triple negative breast cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/vaccines" hreflang="en">vaccines</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/cancer" hreflang="en">cancer</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/complementary-and-alternative-medicine" hreflang="en">complementary and alternative medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/medicine" hreflang="en">medicine</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/science" hreflang="en">Science</a></div> <div class="field--item"><a href="/tag/surgery" hreflang="en">surgery</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field field--name-field-blog-categories field--type-entity-reference field--label-inline"> <div class="field--label">Categories</div> <div class="field--items"> <div class="field--item"><a href="/channel/social-sciences" hreflang="en">Social Sciences</a></div> </div> </div> <section> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274794" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415350209"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> No, the drop in cortisol levels whenever one kid’s school calls or the other kid has a public “flare up” is enough for the cancer to take root. </p></blockquote> <p>Doesn't stress cause cortisol levels to rise, not drop?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274794&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C0pmPFMgfweaT6b17fiB3qlvC5N10JRR5jLtQESSHD8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Militant Agnostic (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274794">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274795" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415350488"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Economists have long been known to make bold faced lies they then "back up" with contorted analysts, generally they do this to advance an ideological agenda.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274795&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="18eHnfRYEW77AcxiIeySLpWiyk0ycXYCvg0r7leIDDQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Joe (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274795">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274796" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415353392"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>&lt;blockquote<br /> I have Age of Autism-induced brain cancer (AoAIBC). While I am not absolutely certain that the 1.9 centimeter lump that grew in my left hemisohere is the result of the stress of believing I destroyed my beautiful babies by vaccinating them for MMR, all indications point in that direction. There is virtually no mental disease in my family, I take supplements from NaturalNews, I blog, I watch Oprah. OK, so I live in New Jersey, and watch Chris Christie press conferences, but that is the only other major stress factor. No, the drop in cortisol levels when Ann Daschel writes that stress may lead me to murder my autistic kid, and then I watch Nancy Grace on TV is enough for the cancer to take root in my brain. Taking a sledge hammer to my head may indeed kill the cancer, but sometimes (often?) stress does return. Amazing how a little pain in the ass can turn one into a huge pain in the cerebral cortex.</p> <p>Isn't cortisol supposed to go UP under stress?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274796&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rSloLBtxD2U9T9KyClbuquH1IR0zcg-Ku9ZuzOr9_Ug"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274796">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274797" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415354392"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>First off, unless DeLong’s cancer is a certain subtype called triple negative (and even then not entirely), it’s not true that in three years she’ll be cured or dead. Such a binary outlook! Estrogen receptor-positive [ER(+)] tumors can recur 5, 10, 15, and even 20+ years later</p></blockquote> <p>An <a href="http://xkcd.com/931/">a-propos XKCD comic</a> to illustrate this.<br /> Quite a serious one.<br /> On the same topic, check "Tatoo" (XKCD #933).</p> <p>Mrs DeLong, I hope you will be in the 60%, if only for the sake of your children. And I would encourage you to accept a tatoo, if your oncologist proposes you one.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274797&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N_mthYrDDIBUMv14HHTX_OveJAE80JhyWL62-3x8oVg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274797">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274798" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415354450"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>is there any evidence demonstrating the incidence of breast cancer in women who are the primary caregivers for one or more autistic children exceeds the incidence in women who are instead the primary caregivers for one or more<i> non</i>-autistic children?</p> <p>Seems like that would be an essential bit of information to have on hand to suggest the existence of a causal association.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274798&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Nyaj7saoeenQNcLLtJnQ0qbee83zPAP1dK8_gkxp8gQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274798">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274799" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415356890"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The *stress leads to cancer* ( and other illnesses) myth is alive and kicking amongst alties esp @ PRN where it thrives:<br /> most 'protocols' involve meditation, 'de-stressing', prayer and other mind-body techniques like yoga, t'ai chi and journal wriiting. The name of Selye pops up frequently as do Benson and advice for 'holistic psychtherapy' ( whatever that is).</p> <p>A particularly pernicious offfshoot is the belief that the fear associated with a diagnosis of hiv/aids in particulr leads to death which was bandied about quite a bit in the grand old days of hiv/aids denialism.</p> <p>If a condition does not go into remission or improve, there is adequate opportunity for victim blaming: either the person was so weak or mentally compromised that they couldn't control stress or that they were defiantly unwilling to do so or non-compliant in other ways: thus it's THEIR OWN FAULT : when this is grafted onto the spurious belief that these illnesses are caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, wrongful living and out-of-control emotions we observe that the victim is doubly gulity giving the naturalist scolds something else to crow about incessantly.</p> <p>( Unfortunately, the TMs just lost one of their own, Melanie Hamilton, to breast cancer - so we might hear some echoes there although I don't think she blamed her cancer on her son's autism )</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274799&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="kQyCULPRQ_fvoGBsFsOGbHHoyseqfZOA2dz6x06WBeg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274799">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274800" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415359606"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>is there any evidence demonstrating the incidence of breast cancer in women who are the primary caregivers for one or more autistic children exceeds the incidence in women who are instead the primary caregivers for one or more non-autistic children?</p> <p>Seems like that would be an essential bit of information to have on hand to suggest the existence of a causal association.</p></blockquote> <p>That's too many variables for an antivaxxer.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274800&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6qbf0p9Qx9nOM3D-0k0x_k78JsTCHjkZNk7-uA1nYnA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justthestats (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274800">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274801" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415359943"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So any hope of her not telegraphing or projecting the guilt, shame and resentment onto her kid?</p> <p>I hate the Edenistic view of biology that were were designed so that in some sort of time or space the body was perfect and would run forever in perfection and if we just return to that perfect state we will be immortal. Then all disease, aging, or disorder must have some powerful cause that disrupts the perfection that would otherwise effortless continue on forever.</p> <p>In that view there is always someone or something to blame. Whether it is something from outside (GMOs, toxins, people) or inside (my thoughts weren't good enough, pure enough, believed enough). In this view the feces never hit the rotating blade device.</p> <p>To me the marvel is how well this cobbled together bits of this and that functions and how often it actually all works, even when the rotating blades are constantly bombarded.</p> <p>That being said, I do believe managing stress can be helpful for disease management (as long as you don't make it the only reason for the disease or the one true cure). After all I keep waiting for the day the doctor tells me to stop eating regular healthy meals, pull at least 3 or more all-nighters every week and get a job that causes constant unrelenting feelings of failure with a minimum of 6 urgent fires that must be put out every day, marry the most dysfunctional human you can find and have excessive numbers of kids with needs you can't possibly meet, and all your symptoms will go away and you'll run like a well oiled machine from now on.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274801&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OEzDsrDH345loWp_Ctay-delGwQhh-Mra8kHuM3Yu8Y"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">KayMarie (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274801">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274802" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415360154"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wow. Autistic children aren't even children anymore. They're cancer causing agents. I think that may finally be the worst thing I've ever read a parent write.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274802&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="LOlKBoRxwhAfbiAiBKjF5lU4wXJuSu5AjDGJTwfXUsA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Stacy (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274802">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274803" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415360172"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><blockquote>No, the drop in cortisol levels whenever one kid’s school calls or the other kid has a public “flare up” is enough for the cancer to take root. </blockquote> <p>Doesn’t stress cause cortisol levels to rise, not drop?</p></blockquote> <p>What makes you think that those things <i>increase</i> stress for her?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274803&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uSw3ZAFJFafNadGJH-lbKOkOsVlww6mPiQKXMaybZBU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justthestats (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274803">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274804" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415360421"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Isn’t cortisol supposed to go UP under stress?</p></blockquote> <p>That's what big pHARMa wants you to believe so that you won't buy cortisol supplements from reputable providers!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274804&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="WrKKwnfNbit7V7jBJVFdQ-2-1CJszBMrckShVSos4_c"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justthestats (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274804">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274805" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415360589"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I sincerely hope that Ms Delong’s children never encounter and understand her words posted on a public website blaming them for her own misfortune.</p> <p>I was going to quote her post, but that seemed hypocritical.</p> <p>I hope that someone at AoA has the sense to take it down, or ask her to edit that opening line.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274805&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Fc_JxnIVOTNgprQML6JHFBawAYXDos7pSNKqG2PV7Js"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chemmomo (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274805">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274806" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415361359"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So when the anti-science folks can't blame the victim because they themselves got sick, they blame their children.</p> <p>I believe the only thing I can inherit from my kids is insanity. Only because even when they are adults they drive me nuts. Yesterday the youngest got a flu vaccine, so she decided to blame me so I would by her a fancy cold coffee drink.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274806&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="hDcTsULcwTfO30ei5Aj0FKEJc5DjoG4xnWr-48_obkI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274806">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274807" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415361952"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I also notice not comments of sympathy over at AoA regarding the latest parent to kill their autistic child....in fact, the only post from Anne Dachel seems to intimate that the killing could be justified....</p> <p>They are monsters.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274807&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="YGDagsbCial1JGNmtYr45-U8L_ZCqXiOUH4t0PfocBY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274807">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274808" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415363049"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Unlike autism, no one is telling me to “celebrate” my cancer. No one is telling me that cancer is “just a different way for cells to grow.”</i></p> <p>What a jaw-dropping bitch. Really. That's how she thinks of her kids? Yes, autism is challenging and exhausting and everything difficult about being a parent being made even more difficult. But calling your kids harmful, uncontrolled neoplasms?</p> <p><i>Unlike a person with autism, society does not say my cancer is my fault. </i></p> <p>Isn't she right up there, 'blaming' parents for their kids' autism, because they vaccinated or they didn't follow this or that diet or quack routine?</p> <p>I wish I could be more eloquent, but holy hell, what a breathtakingly horrible thing to say about your kids. "How dare society at large say that autistics are people, too?" </p> <p>And I take back that bit about calling her a bitch. I have two bitches, and they are very sweet and loving (if a bit dumb - but they don't pretend to be smart).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274808&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vL85lsMteaSMOTP_ec21UtIkMh9sQcgoolUH6wD0_lo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Roadstergal (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274808">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274809" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415363171"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Anyone else notice this little bit:</p> <blockquote><p>Unlike a person with autism, society does not say my cancer is my fault.</p></blockquote> <p>Gayle, society (or at least, science-based society) does not blame you or your kids for their autism. You did not do anything to cause it. Their autism is not your fault, nor is it their fault.</p> <p>The kind of thinking that Gayle is espousing makes me rather worried for her kids, or for those who latch onto her explanation. How much of a step is it to go from "the stress of raising my autistic kids gave me cancer" to "removing" the cause of the cancer? We already see how so many in the autism pseudoscience realm view autistic children as lost, dead or not human. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch for one of them to kill their own kids, justifying it as not only ending the children's suffering, but to "cure" whatever illness in the parent is being blamed on the stress of raising the kids.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274809&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sgEvnGU5NM4PeUi3MGYa00sRgc16oPt8AdKGd149x-A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Todd W. (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274809">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274810" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415363180"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Now I understand why my mom had breastcancer.<br /> I'm to blame!<br /> I only wonder why my dad hasn't got any form of cancer.<br /> I wasn't easy on both my parents.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274810&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uDZXo7gI9Pi2BHJkxZnTAgWNeDzkMnqRQqSJeIQ_VhQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274810">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274811" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415363686"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I have to assume that the references to being blamed for autism refer to a genetic component, and I admit it's surprising to see a well educated person buy into that view. The view that sees finding a genetic component for autism as no different than blaming it on "refrigerator mothers."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274811&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x-8L5OGrHQf4DW7MPqJvWAEjJPlOEFvJMTm8r-V2hA4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274811">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274812" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415364214"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Your dad must have kept himself in good physical shape--if here were overweight to the point of developing man-boobs you'd probably have given cancer too.</p> <p>(Is a sarcasm warning needed here?)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274812&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Qpb2KtDkHstY5WpGOxKBCKzjnArcCPZarhszGhareEY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">JGC (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274812">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274813" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415364814"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Off topic, but I ran across this nugget when "doing research" on autism associated with breast cancer.<br /><a href="https://www.oapublishinglondon.com/article/611"> Synthetic perfumes </a> cause autism!<br /> 'Tis Friday.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274813&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="4vtY_p-y3PZk4Kt6aBZ2FxQXj_NnhX6TF3iDaiI_YQ4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">doug (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274813">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274814" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415364964"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I bet nobody here can produce a study showing that chemtrails don't cause autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274814&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9lpIMQDTq1WIXyDbk1u3d6CizzpHGXvdPhWG0YCkvvE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorit Reiss (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274814">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274815" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415365130"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>So, when will Ms. DeLong publish her latest research, that vaccines cause breast cancer?</p> <p>I mean, it has to be from the vaccines - everything is caused by vaccines. If her kids weren't vaccinated, they wouldn't be autistic, and if they weren't autistic, she wouldn't have breast cancer.</p> <p>I do hope that she's using evidence based medicine for treatment, and not some alt-woo-bullcrap.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274815&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sXlF8teJx-Zcv2gxVHoeDEDMfogxhf3uU6gKePnO2xs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Darwy (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274815">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274816" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415365238"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Been a while since I've visited here, but I see the world is still as quacky and ableist as always. :(</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274816&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rjq_FkfVYPPeGSTevI6gW24xskj2nZSQBOlvdnzVvps"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Bronze Dog (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274816">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274817" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415365613"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I can't believe I'm saying this...but I sincerely hope this woman's children are not literate. And here's hoping their friends don't read blogs either. Or if they do, that they all have extremely acute and sensitive parents to watch over them.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274817&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yXdFRaFVcRK6RSs19qJAR0VP4ED-mc8VVjdFTA71wM4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ChristineRose (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274817">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274818" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415365650"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I have to assume that the references to being blamed for autism refer to a genetic component, and I admit it’s surprising to see a well educated person buy into that view.</p></blockquote> <p>If so, it's also surprising she's somehow missed genetic components in various cancers. Genetic risk factors for breast cancer specifically have made the news repeatedly.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274818&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nDLCo6Dw72_wNYkZPmW3yEZbBd3p-mu2l5VVq_rqJ-4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andreas Johansson (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274818">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274819" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415365889"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Dawry: "So, when will Ms. DeLong publish her latest research, that vaccines cause breast cancer?"</p> <p>This is right up to her "research" that revealed every child with a Speech/Language Impairment is autistic! I bet the deaf/hard of hearing community was surprised at her "brilliant" revelation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274819&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_xKor_nFmt2Jydb0T-oiqEDyJgDd9C_MSsQ6iY9qB20"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Chris (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274819">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274820" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415366134"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>There is virtually no cancer in my family, I eat organically, I exercise, I’m a good weight. </i></p> <p>Therefore WITCHCRAFT.<br /> I am concerned to see an economist sinking to this level of magical thinking.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274820&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Bjreoy9i4Ixg9RDVpI-BohJqlZYqfrlVINpabYr_Hos"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274820">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274821" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415366368"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ JGC<br /> Well, my dad is in good physical shape, just like my mom was, when she was alive.</p> <p>And yes, I understood it was sacastic. I was as well, when blaming myself for my moms breastcancer.</p> <p>Blaming myself for her death (which had nothing to do with breastcancer), would be more realistic. If my bike wasn't stolen and I had gone to the police myself, instead of letting my dad do it for me and if I had gone after him, to bring the keys of my bike, to prove my bike was locked, when it was stolen, my mom wouldn't have tripped which in the end resulted in a celebral haemorage, which led to her death.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274821&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="UBOI13Nj9Yt95d3vI5VVrXSYNjq8kEO-6UZ6PEdP6cg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Renate (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274821">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274822" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415367510"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>It's a variation on the same old theme at AoA. </p> <p>Every time a new study comes out identifying a risk factor for autism (genetic, parental age at time of conception, prenatal or postnatal exposures (not vaccines), high order/preterm/low birthweight/traumatic births, etc.), we have an absence of analyses and an outpouring of "testimonials" from the AoA critters, detailing how they don't haven't any risk factors, ergo it's the vaccines.</p> <p>That "autism-induced-breast cancer" is a new low for Ms. DeLong and Age of Autism.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274822&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="42skFPy9KRC8siMPS2etP4cJaNXU2Z-OqyiFwAnzPTQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274822">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274823" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415368982"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>So any hope of her not telegraphing or projecting the guilt, shame and resentment onto her kids?</p></blockquote> <p>[sarcasm]"in three years, I’ll be dead"[/sarcasm]<br /> Well, maybe if she gets in a cancer support group, and trots out 'my kid's autism gave me cancer' the other folks in the group will think 'cancer drives us all crazy' and try to talk her down with sympathy and compassion. She' (and her children) would probably be better off the more contact she has with caring people outside the AoA funny farm.</p> <p>Great stuff about Edenistic ideology, KayMarie. Getting a handle on the Bigger Picture is a first step to figuring out effective counter-argument.</p> <blockquote><p>To me the marvel is how well this cobbled together bits of this and that functions and how often it actually all works</p></blockquote> <p> I do agree that how we should look at 'nature.' But as I write that, I'm asking myself why more people don't, why they have expectations of perfection. And my first thought is that consumer capitalism has a lot to do with it. In his classic critical history of the development of advertising 'Captains of Consciousness', Stuart Ewen argues industry's shift to mass-production for mass-consumption faced a profound obstacle: people didn't think they needed more and more material things. To create demand, capital had to create NEED. Thus, the fundamental message of advertising was, 'You are imperfect, deeply flawed. Everyone is watching you, noting all your imperfections, judging you harshly. But if you buy this product you will be fixed, be accepted by your peers, and be happy.' As a paradigm, Ewen cites Listerine ads promoting the idea that the made-up-disease "halitosis," was a guarantee of social downfall, to which nasty-tasting medicinal mouthwash was the cure. </p> <p>Not content just to interpret the psychology of the ads themselves, Ewen cites the writings of Merchant Kings, articles in trade magazines, etc. From 1930, in the main advertising trade mag: "advertising helps keep the masses dissatisfied with their mode of life... Satisfied customers are not as profitable as discontented ones."</p> <p>It's always <i>your fault</i> you're not perfect. Does Gayle DeLong really think her cancer is her children's fault? Or is it <i>her</i><i> fault because "I didn’t question the established wisdom concerning vaccines, and my kids have autism"? Don't conspiracy theories always articulate the idea, 'You should have known better! But here's the fix for your ignorance!'? How stupid you were to trust Monsanto or Merck! But you can fix everything by buying supplements and super-foods from the Health Ranger!</i></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274823&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xf6_AmVlA-ywLdpLkBYENiQ5zIs4PVlZQX85CBlBhjk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274823">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274824" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415369242"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>HDB wrote: "I am concerned to see an economist sinking to this level of magical thinking."</p> <p>Ha! That's a Laffer! What did you expect?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274824&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FQKhqBg2jasHSb01AAnFA9CZl0KsHsIBpbUt-9f-lm0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274824">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274825" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415370416"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I didn't say I was <i>surprised</i>.</p> <blockquote><p>Taking a sledge hammer to my breast may indeed kill the cancer, but what about the organ that lies directly under my breast, my heart? If 10 or 20 years from now I develop a heart condition – which is also unheard of in my family – would it be the result of the radiation or just bad stuff happening to good people? The cancer experts don’t care; after all, the cancer didn’t return!</p></blockquote> <p>I guess if you are preparing yourself to ignore the advice of experts, the first step is to convince yourself that those experts are dishonest and that oncologists don't care about side-effects.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274825&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Edl1VYSyHIKJLduCueZUa1zObvSibSGcZa-lr6-y2lg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274825">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274826" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415370979"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I do believe the esteemed Dr. Crislip has stated (in some fashion) that all disease comes from three things: germs, genes &amp; wear and tear. I like to add a 4th: __it happens</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274826&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RS4ToFAujpOKQyu9XyPuBMHVg6fYP2Voo2FX7msn0qo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">nutritionprof (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274826">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274827" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415371920"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This woman seriously pisses me off. I mean really. I don't wish ill of any human being and I am sorry about her diagnosis, but to blame your own children! I have a delightful 3 y/o (and a bun cooking who is cursing me with nearly intractable nausea) and I don't blame them for my life! Is it stressful? Absolutely! I mean really, there are only so many times a sane person can watch Wreck-It Ralph before contemplating suicide but I'm still not blaming my illnesses on my small child's temper tantrums over going to bed or insistence on watching Peppa Pig non-stop for hours straight. They are your children, the joy you got to feel growing in your body and hold for the first time marveling at their tiny little hands and feet. I can't imagine not loving my child and doing everything I can for him every day. To blame your cancer on caring for your children wow that takes the cake for me. Plus to complain that we are finally beginning to make strides in public understanding and acceptance of autistic children and adults. Wow. Just wow it's all I can say.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274827&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZnZxRFzyACbN_tSlnGgYe5PHSS5vK3c-DOemgPJm2YI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kiiri (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274827">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274828" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415373247"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I guess if you are preparing yourself to ignore the advice of experts, the first step is to convince yourself that those experts are dishonest and that oncologists don’t care about side-effects.</p></blockquote> <p>No, they're not even interested. <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172060/">Oh, wait</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274828&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="6r7NoKHWijLMQsh_UtaQfohsYeBuAYMOLcJPaTpUKeE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274828">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274829" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415373558"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Maybe it was her "milk of human kindness".</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274829&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="IQtQtzYJ7iCLL4IBL_sZlfbALY8lVZFfg7jksdhfrvg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">daedalus2u (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274829">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274830" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415374669"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Chemmomo: You may get your wish. The whole site is down. I suspect one of the clueless tried to take the post down, and took the whole site offline.</p> <p>Personally, I hope someone shows that post to CPS, and she never sees her kids again. What a horrible ghastly woman. I hope she goes bankrupt.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274830&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XgEsfztj4ODJnLslJMlJ9VN0BDoJj-9k4D1FI43p-Pc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274830">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274831" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415374829"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The really sad part in all of this, is that her "brethren" over at AoA &amp; other "alt-med" groups are going to convince her to abandon any conventional therapies and go full-on alternative...which means that, most likely, she will have sentenced herself to a very long and painful death.</p> <p>I wouldn't wish something like this on my own worst enemy, but already the comments on that story are attempting to take her down a very dark path....with all of the usual Cancer quack cures.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274831&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="x0iQeNjEcr-fwTlHuyDkfxRjD5VyD-J-zTzu6_JgpmY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Lawrence (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274831">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274832" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415375505"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You're probably right. The post I was originally going to blog about early this AM before I saw DeLong's post was a post over at The (Not-So)-Thinking Moms' Revolution touting homeopathy to prevent "vaccine injury." Holy hell. But this one's more up my alley.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274832&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="JUdNSr0PktBuX0DHodt2yfHbuiICS7yBpryuNnzMS34"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence" lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Orac (not verified)</a> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274832">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274833" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415375533"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>You can't win with such a patient. I'd recommend not operating on them, since they won't follow up one efforts will be largely wasted. Let them choose magical thinking or medicine but do not be drawn into a situation where one may be blamed (sued) for a bad outcome while denigrated (and possibly sued) for a good one when the patient attributes any desirable outcome to shaken water or whatever, and declares the surgery an unnecessary predation.<br /> This will also direct resources to someone less wealthy who will actually follow up.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274833&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OqzNFK8x4gQ5h1IGtB4d9ZcAhgOdJZDNnPybwBg_sUw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Spectator (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274833">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274834" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415375577"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>The *stress leads to cancer* ( and other illnesses) myth is alive and kicking amongst alties esp @ PRN where it thrives:</i></p> <p>I was diagnosed with Stage I Breast Cancer 20 years ago. I tried my damnedest to figure out what caused it. One of the things I figured out was that whether or not stress causes cancer, I can offer plenty of anecdotal evidence that cancer causes stress.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274834&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="dwxu2K2zeOPh2UgUr2q5jK6kkHdXiG2rW7XkoXEDiuk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Emily (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274834">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274835" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415376276"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>The really sad part in all of this, is that her “brethren” over at AoA &amp; other “alt-med” groups are going to convince her to abandon any conventional therapies and go full-on alternative…</p></blockquote> <p>I almost said something about the halfwitted AoA comments recommending "alkalinization," etc., but I tend to suspect that DeLong is able to recognize base idiocy so long as it's not her own.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274835&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="t5M2vKnr6DacYBNVAZ3BV_scTx1_DZLpet4_mJ1yjKc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274835">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274836" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415376687"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Lawrence:</p> <p>I believe that 'brethren' is incorrect-<br /> it's more like 'cistern'<br /> oops, I mean, 'sistren'.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274836&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="XJN0v3rxcvG3DYJ-4qrfnUJMfiADTIFOVA2Rj4YLnP0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274836">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274837" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415376857"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>able to recognize base idiocy</i><br /> I see what you do there, Narad.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274837&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VnMmTi1Wqhs-YwLtd2b-PhROtoGhk1c7_CYDEOZTADU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274837">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274838" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415377141"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>You can’t win with such a patient. I’d recommend not operating on them, since they won’t follow up one efforts will be largely wasted.</p></blockquote> <p>I'm going to go with "ah, <i>no</i>" here. This isn't organ transplantation.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274838&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3RuRt3taAYv-_K7091S2HmneJlw3tl7YuaUH-m2aHjo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274838">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274839" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415377833"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Thanks, HDB. I wouldn't have caught Narad's pun.</p> <p>Very good, sir Narad! Thous dost have an acid tongue!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274839&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="M-jIDacLM72NwCqdfMv0wA4fwpHq1m86d_NePqjDQjo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274839">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274840" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415378421"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Stacy wrote:</p> <blockquote><p>Wow. Autistic children aren’t even children anymore. They’re cancer causing agents. I think that may finally be the worst thing I’ve ever read a parent write.</p></blockquote> <p>That's why I don't read AoA. It just gets worse. This comment to Delong may win the prize, for the day anyway... or not...</p> <blockquote><p>Hi Gayle. You have said it perfectly by addressing the complete fools who think autism is something to celebrate and view it as just another way of being. The most astonishing thing I have ever read on a blog from one of these types was a mother who stated that her child was just simply "wired differently than your average bear." She is taking something as serious as this and trying to make it sound cute. So to this mindless mom I would ask, if she ended up with breast cancer would it mean that she believed that her cells just divide differently than your average bear and she wasn't sick or there was no need to panic?</p></blockquote> <p>ASD child: sick, ugly, broken, infectious, deadly, unstoppabele. PANIC TIME!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274840&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="wzmLN8apY2ERzgemUplarrBcdnGLDNKiStx0yRDpa_M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274840">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274841" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415380197"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>To me the marvel is how well this cobbled together bits of this and that functions and how often it actually all works, even when the rotating blades are constantly bombarded.</p></blockquote> <p>I've been semi-jokingly referring to the 'Russian Dancing Bear' model of biology/anatomy/evolution for years.</p> <p>As they say, people applaud the Russian dancing bear at the circus. They do not applaud because it dances particularly well; they applaud because it is frankly amazing it can dance at all.</p> <p>Frankly, I am still amazed at how anybody can look at the sheer mess of anatomy and biology as we understand it today and <i>not</i> realize that, yeah, this is the result of billions of years of hack-jobs and patches that all just barely worked well enough to survive to the next generation. (And not even the <i>end</i> result either, just another version that will continue to be patched. Lactase persistence, for one, is a mutation that post-dates agriculture.)</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274841&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DJU_YPvPkY6NS-HrhXsWe5ig93byCP9JG-T-xf-Jr6M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Jenora Feuer (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274841">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274842" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415380426"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sadmar: "ASD child: sick, ugly, broken, infectious, deadly, unstoppabele. PANIC TIME!"</p> <p>This is why these people revolt me. I don't know why the mothers (and it's usually the mothers) don't just pack up and leave if they hate their children so much. It makes you wonder whether they'd be capable of raising a kid who went deaf from measles or suffered paralysis from tetanus. It's odd how this generation of parents is so incapable of dealing with disabled children, given that we now have more tools than ever to make disabled people's lives easier.</p> <p>The only thing *worse* than their comments about living autistic children are when they pretend to cry over dead autistic kids. It's disgusting, especially in the Spourdalakis case, where the whole lot of them should be charged for incitement to murder.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274842&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Cs-u4kOEeg2a-8hLVl8zZbb2aMHDEfscqDFH9Iywd3o"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274842">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274843" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415381496"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Jenora Feuer's comment about the jerry-rigged, barely-good-enough nature of physiology apply as well to psychology. Rather than demonise people who crack up under stress, I am more inclined to marvel at how many people cope with terrible situations <i>without</i> going calenture hatstand.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274843&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fkFEGVWkOGnMHyg0irC9Ofy2pm5-FgFGuXYV0D8zxHA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274843">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274844" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415382038"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@47 - she really socks it to those mindless moms who love their kids, doesn't she? Imagine the nerve of a parent taking good care of a child, instead of abusing him!</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274844&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mpIURoggckt6yG0dORjb2C_h1Ar6awIVtOaMrxEW220"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Thomas (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274844">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274845" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415382460"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Agreed, herr doktor.</p> <p>Interestingly, although woo-meisters forever implicate stress as causing all manner of serious illness they forever RAMP UP stress and fear in their advocates by endlessly listing all of the dangerous food, toxins, the contaminated, medicine-laced water and heavy metals they ingest, the dangerous, polluted air they breathe, the radiation that surrounds them, the 'toxic relationships' they maintain, the demonic corporations, criminal doctors and police state governments that plague them as well as earthquakes,civil wars, riots, tsunamis and solar flares- which are all on the way.</p> <p>Is alt med an avoidable source of malignant stress that endangers well-being?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274845&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="7VuuwKapLCJndUT0GtZ6xmZPEZrjvtx7M2TIUVkipUc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274845">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274846" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415382497"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>It’s odd how this generation of parents is so incapable of dealing with disabled children, given that we now have more tools than ever to make disabled people’s lives easier.</p></blockquote> <p>The previous few generations generally dealt with mentally disabled children by sending them off to some institution and rarely if ever seeing them again. It's definitely not a bad thing that that is not socially acceptable anymore, but it did make day-to-day dealing with them easier for the parents.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274846&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="zejx2qNjvC8JcIM1ntH7fb9uku7sn3FyWyvFHiXdIEw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">justthestats (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274846">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274847" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415383653"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>HDB wrote: “I am concerned to see an economist sinking to this level of magical thinking.”</i></p> <p>Ha! That’s a Laffer! What did you expect?</p> <p>...<br /> I am staring at that post, thinking really hard, hoping your brain will catch on fire. That was awful.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274847&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="z1YgNUvrtXPVdExI-UNp0Uekck7sjOBTu1EKNSK7Yms"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Chan Kobun, the Ghost-Who-Waddles">Chan Kobun, th… (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274847">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274848" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415384579"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Mike Adams' quote caught my eye:</p> <blockquote><p> As any real scientist knows, everything that happens in our universe has a cause. </p></blockquote> <p>Like, maybe, the radioactive decay of a single nucleus you happen to be watching? </p> <p>This is BS of an especially high order. If he keeps this up, he will soon rise to the level of the guru of BS, the great, great, and inimitable -- or, maybe, all too imitable -- Deepak.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274848&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="auxX5CLJObbnAj-wKQaJWX235WuHHX9FmECR71WRizM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">palindrom (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274848">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274849" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415387216"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I dunno, Orac. You may have had some fun with the TM's inspirational 'Homeopathy Saved My Daughter's Life, Prevented Autism, and Fixes Everything!' post.</p> <p>The first comment:<br /> " I’ve had the same success with helping my dogs with vaccine-induced damage."</p> <p>Yes, the conspiracy is so immense it includes the vet clinics at Petco, the villains so cruel they go after Fido! I wonder if she uses homeopathy for heartworm. Somebody call PETA. Seriously, this woman is going to kill her dog.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274849&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ZzUuQD_dcyOZv-5Q0MsW16uV_E0Bw7ZaCQnzklXSXrs"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274849">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274850" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415388553"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Like, maybe, the radioactive decay of a single nucleus you happen to be watching?</p></blockquote> <p>I'm surprised that the NSA hasn't called upon Mikey to dispatch that whole "one-time pad" business.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274850&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ljc9_77bv0tTI8MQmK6xFdECFCCSyfl7Pce2XK9peA0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274850">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274851" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415388807"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"There is virtually no cancer in my family" " a heart condition – which is also unheard of in my family "</p> <p>So, her family has avoided the 2 diseases that kill the vast majority of people. Are they all extremely accident prone, or perhaps immortal.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274851&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="uLohoz3sRq0IhCHK-UPzHsFug4fy2G6MbmH9kfsYpQM"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Greenwhat (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274851">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274852" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415389387"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hi PGP:</p> <blockquote><p>I don’t know why the mothers don’t just pack up and leave if they hate their children so much. </p></blockquote> <p>I think they don't leave, or put their kids in someone else's care, because (per #30) it's really themselves they hate deep down. We've previously discussed the possibility narcissistic tendencies may be common among the AoA/TM crowd. For all their self-centered-ness, narcissists are hollow inside and feel horribly inadequate. </p> <p>It's actually worse than hating their kids, because to hate them, they would have to recognize them as human beings. I don't think they do. They seem to treat their ASD kids as extensions of themselves, not as, you know, actual people with any kind of individuality. </p> <p>So they can't leave the kids because they know they can't leave themselves. They would lose their source of self-flaggelation for having been duped by the conspiracy, and their source of self-inflation through martyrdom.</p> <p>I mean, it's always a conversion narrative, right? It's never 'well i was always all-natural, and my kids are great, and I'm just so heartbroken by those kids across town who got thimerisal poisoning'. It starts with a confession of sin. 'I was blind. I didn't know. Fool that I was, I trusted the Dr. How did I not see the horns coming from her forehead?' Then they recognize they have punished for their sin, in the form of having to care for a sub-human alien. The kid is their hair-shirt, their 39 lashes, the cross they must drag up to calvary. But the purpose of having a cross is climb up up on, show the world your wounds and speak your revelations! Truth from suffering turns the tables on sin and converts it the heroic messianic sacrifice of martyrdom. The world shall know my story and be saved!</p> <p>The kid is just a prop in the passion play, but a necessary one. No kid, no cross. No cross, no platform. No platform, no listeners. No listeners, and they're alone with their hollow selves. Their kids are their identity badges, their super-hero uniforms. Without them, they would be naked and lost. But that only works as long as the kids are objects.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274852&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QwkkzulljeBxhkuGHA5Ghoe3LdHUuJQ6IeBT5-BmGxk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274852">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274853" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415396233"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ sadmar:</p> <p>Unfortunately, for all of their talk about '@ss kicking' feminism and 'revolution', these women most likely rely upon traditional roles, like being a wife and mother, for the basis of their identity and self-esteem. The fact that their children require additional assistance compared to average kids puts them in a position to add 'martyr' to their resume. A few talk sadly about the loss of their careers which seems to betray their ambivalence about their supposedly cherished role as the *ne plus ultra* mamacita.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274853&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="k7__nZsKnilkwuzjbR0hvts3DcoBFzHDGBk63zqOr1I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274853">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274854" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415400123"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>justthe stats: "It’s definitely not a bad thing that that is not socially acceptable anymore, but it did make day-to-day dealing with them easier for the parents."</p> <p>That's the problem..it didn't make it easier for the parents. A few, yes. There are parents for whom a diagnosis is only a confirmation of what they already knew and is useful as a roadmap, and for those, the relationship with the child never changes. But a lot of parents lose that relationship with the child, leading to all sorts of abuses and often, straight up filicide. The kids might as well be raised by strangers for all the warmth they're going to get from an anti-vax parent.<br /> And these days, parenting is such a competitive sport that raising even a deaf or a blind child would be almost impossible for your average suburban hothouse flower-er, housewife.</p> <p>Sadmar: I think you're right. The few trolls I've actually exchanged words with could never accept that people with autism were people, or for that matter, that they could grow up to be fairly successful adults.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274854&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_BknwnondNSeionDFzKxP18R2TztDbADnbRPdnXi7Tw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274854">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274855" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415402949"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I don’t DISagree with any of the people above who feel sorry for this woman’s children, especially because she seems to think they are the worst thing in the world, BUT--depending on the level of disability, I can see where raising even one--let alone two--autistic children could lead to despair. Still, I think I would lean more to suicide than to such deep resentment of my own children. Perhaps she is deeply depressed. It must be devastating to get a cancer diagnosis on top of raising challenging children, no matter how you feel about your children’s condition.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274855&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="el0xJ5bMG6IBLfoi0JeMxjl3UQpFIpCT4ot6-m_zvws"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorothy (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274855">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274856" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415402949"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Well, I don’t DISagree with any of the people above who feel sorry for this woman’s children, especially because she seems to think they are the worst thing in the world, BUT--depending on the level of disability, I can see where raising even one--let alone two--autistic children could lead to despair. Still, I think I would lean more to suicide than to such deep resentment of my own children. Perhaps she is deeply depressed. It must be devastating to get a cancer diagnosis on top of raising challenging children, no matter how you feel about your children’s condition.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274856&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ryWNj19wUvfI3481Iu5zONWPRa0GLB3kUna0P5efs8w"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dorothy (not verified)</span> on 07 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274856">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274857" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415425771"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Hang on, I thought stress caused AIDS?<br /> Or was I in the wrong quackosphere....?</p> <p>I am just surprised she hasn't cut out the supposed middleman and labelled it "Vaccine induced breast cancer"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274857&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="3YclNvfc0YTo-6ClLkcBBm5I2DzwWihRF99nxLQF1YY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">dingo199 (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274857">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274858" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415430557"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I'm on the spectrum, so is my husband, and so are most of our five children (all independent adults, most parents themselves). I have EDS and most of the disabilities that go with that.</p> <p>I had pre-cancerous ovarian tumours in my thirties, leading to total hysterectomy.</p> <p>Yes, all of those are challenging (I wouldn't wish post-partum depression on my worst enemy, if I had one). But blaming autism (or vaccines) for the cancer is nonsense, and expecting medals for just living my life would be outrageous. </p> <p>I'm at low risk for breast cancer (late menarche, early menopause, lots and lots of breast feeding) but even so, I've had my lumps checked out (always benign). </p> <p>Having had 'friends' with narcissistic personality disorder, and having had to cope with all the drama that comes with being one of their 'extras' in their self-directed plays, I'm in agreement with Sadmar's comment at 59. </p> <p>To them, their children aren't people. If they aren't disabled, then they are expected to fulfil the narcissistic parent's dreams for them, regardless of their own hopes and desires; and if they have the temerity to be unable, through disability, to be Proud Mama's Reflection of Her Awesomeness, then they become props in her martyrdom.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274858&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VHbrxdxA7DZm9NJNUZCqxiHZqZNqRZxLEpgVWjo5Yc8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">tiggerthewing (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274858">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274859" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415434184"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Doug<br /> Funnily enough, perfumes and cosmetics are, in general perception, steeped into the natural fallacy really bad. </p> <p>The aromachemicals, natural or synthetic, are not exactly benign but it's no secret. Yes, a lot of plant stuff is photosensitizing, for example citrus oils... One year, I grew a pigmented moustache from eating too many oranges. I even found references in medical literature that describe this phenomenon. I was aware that this may happen, washed my mouth and used sunscreen but it still did happen. And those were perfect organic oranges from the farmer's market.<br /> Yes, perfume components are potential allegens/irritants, as just about anything. Funnily enough, people who don't wink an eye about showing MMS aka bleach into all their orifices go all bonkers about cologne because it contains scary-sounding things like hydroxycitronellal or geraniol. These occur naturally, geraniol makes most of the rose scent, for example. And perfectly natural nice-smelling coumarin and related compounts are actually poisonous. I don't know to what extent coumarin is used in perfumery but the tonka bean extract is used in natural perfumery and tonka beans are a great source of coumarin....</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274859&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xDL8E_yXbgvaS0jmYze7TJhNYtbOHCb0M-atjV7HAYg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Kultakutri (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274859">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274860" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415442800"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>If nothing else, ORAC gives the heartless as place to practice their art.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274860&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="G7eiRxSAirL-tie0XYpAXZQpMhetBQAgvqsRANf9JO4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Ross (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274860">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274861" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415444110"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"Natural" cosmetics bug me on a conceptual level. Isn't the very point of cosmetics to improve on nature?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274861&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="C7IBUlzQtW_vWGPcVfBLQweK0spYGHNxTHUVbePgj_0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Andreas Johansson (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274861">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274862" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415447437"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@ Kultakutri:</p> <p>Tonka bean is often used in non-natural perfumery as well:<br /> I don't recall exactly *which ones* but I know I've seen it listed amongst ingredients of several fashionable scents<br /> ( perhaps something buy Calvin Klien). I don't think that I have any examples currently at home. It may be used as a substitute for vanilla.</p> <p>There are a few perfume sales sites which list ingredients for each speciifc scent however I haven't had any luck searching the 'net by that speciifc ingredient today.</p> <p>It seems I personally choose scents that mix diverse fruits and flowers with more exotic additions like incense, patchouli, vanillas, cedar, tea, amber, almonds, spices etc.<br /> As opposed to more 'natural' simple oils. </p> <p>I believe that a very famous scent was created to smell speciifically un-natural for Mlle Chanel. I.e.* Moderne*</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274862&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="KJXxqfH-T5wkgMyA5qp3OVZMMVbrrBl5ZaKSkKKyV0s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274862">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274863" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415447473"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>That should be KLEIN</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274863&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="BNVV98i2-xcr_9w3JH-is_3CLPUFiaAHEkjVHLvhNI0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274863">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274864" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415463393"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>So if you develop colon polyps, there is a cause for it, and that cause is without question related to the foods you’re consuming, because that’s what is in contact with your small intestine, large intestine and colon. </p></blockquote> <p>Couple of questions for the Health Deranger:<br /> - if contact with food causes intestinal polyps and cancer, why are neoplastic polyps and cancers far less common in the small intestine than the large intestine?<br /> - if he's such a health expert, maybe he could explain the difference between "large intestine" and "colon", and why the omission of "rectum"?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274864&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="vNQZHZ-Ww5brNkqCPKOBbmOXjGTLUXsTsvyaSe1zVDY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">TBruce (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274864">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274865" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415464799"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p> tonka beans are a great source of coumarin<br /> Also, most disappointing Christmas gift <b>ever</b>.</p></blockquote> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274865&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OJr-yo-WfzjeMqN6VJWzYRHVw13YKFs8Lwcn3y8xR_s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Krebiozen (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274865">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274866" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415466354"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Ross:<br /> That we are outraged at this woman's ingnorant, self-absorbed and thoughtless (to her own children) comments is seen by you as "heartless." So be it. I think you will also see that many of us have commented that we are sorry that she's ill and wish her a full recovery. I think that risking her own life with quackery at her children's peril is actually pretty heartless. From her writing, I can tell you that I don't like her. I don't have to, but I wish her no ill will and a swift recovery. Nobody deserves to go through this. I wear your ill thought out scorn as if it were a medal of honor.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274866&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rClwHJN_7J-lTRlDjriRe3fC_WtgcXCI1eyRrrAGucc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Pareidolius (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274866">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274867" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415467744"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"– if he’s such a health expert, maybe he could explain the difference between “large intestine” and “colon”, and why the omission of “rectum”?" </p> <p>"Colon" is Spanish for "Large Intestine".</p> <p>"Rectum" is the place where Mike Adams' head is firmly embedded.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274867&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="DrInCQWS2LrhYVzepJY9vASgEu8fheVQz99N0tpkk_M"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dangerous Bacon (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274867">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274868" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415469653"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I hope that someone at AoA has the sense to take it down</p></blockquote> <p>Speaking of which, did anybody notice the abrupt disappearance of the AoA banner stating that donations are now tax-deductible? I tidied the screen shot out of existence before noticing that they had removed it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274868&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9bL6xXB_dPQKDHpOBV14oUZ1dqX_aTJkY-iGKb5dG0s"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274868">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274869" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415472527"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad: Don't ask me, since the whole freaking site refuses to show up for me.</p> <p>Ross: I was the only one who wished this lady ill, and I simply said I hope she goes bankrupt and had her kids taken away. That's hardly heartless; in fact, I'm giving her way more sympathy than she deserves</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274869&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Z_mKzGcOWaQSJlPj9cHxS_gpCTKXBOGivELw7zig-N0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274869">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274870" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415475152"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@Politicalguineapig: Spectator did wish her ill in #40, much mre than you did</p> <blockquote><p>You can’t win with such a patient. I’d recommend not operating on them, since they won’t follow up one efforts will be largely wasted.</p></blockquote> <p>Recommending science-based treatment be denied to someone with a fatal disease is pretty heartless. </p> <p>@Ross, you'll notice, I hope, that no one else agreed with that.  </p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274870&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="OU_MuNWgz1jGYJbUw3-4EjB4zbKKahz9aoylf8yAstY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">LW (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274870">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274871" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415477340"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Looks like ol' Ross was another drive-by. We shall not see his like . . . until the next one storms in with the Argumentum ad Big Meanium.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274871&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="L2Qv9aAbF4F-Kx8jgVb02oJtmZL0IhP2v8o6F1ZI8HA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Pareidolius (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274871">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274872" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415480178"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"– if contact with food causes intestinal polyps and cancer, why are neoplastic polyps and cancers far less common in the small intestine than the large intestine?"</p> <p>I think because the contents of the small intestine are more diluted and as water gets reabsorbed the carcinogens become concentrated.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274872&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="_BJ35eYKU6SRoZIQXNjevu25JSnRxw-WHhT4LLvy2l8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ABC (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274872">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274873" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415483895"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad that banner went up ~ one week ago and it was featured on AoA's Facebook page.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274873&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="MOAvPkDN6GUIgL-Y6V4bxkjD1rJ8swmSeOlSa1KRO-0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274873">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274874" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415484412"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>LW: Right, I missed that. Spectator kinda has a point, but doctors can't refuse to treat patients regardless of the patient's personality or publicly stated opinions. If they did, most of Congress would be out of luck.</p> <p>Personally, I think bankruptcy and losing the kids is in the top ten of worst things you can wish on a person. I can't stomach wishing someone dead right now (due to personal reasons) and the top worst thing isn't something I'd wish on my worst enemy.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274874&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Si-qslXe_NXFLnLWqu84uMGU0ESsRji-B570UP-80Rk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274874">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274875" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415497301"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I bet nobody here can produce a study showing that chemtrails don’t cause autism."</p> <p>Sure I can. Find someone to fund it and I could do it. It may not be a valid study (and it is certainly not what you are actually talking about). But, hey, that happens all the time in autism. Dwoskin/Segal/SafeMinds/Generation Rescue/etc. fund a study and, Hooker/Geier/Shaw/someone produces a result.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274875&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="tjQpIn99BiCOnrpECc4f0u6Gbj7mkQ9jXQUz_nD--Nw"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">I. Rony Meter (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274875">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274876" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415497481"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Well, I don’t DISagree with any of the people above who feel sorry for this woman’s children, especially because she seems to think they are the worst thing in the world, BUT–depending on the level of disability, I can see where raising even one–let alone two–autistic children could lead to despair. Still, I think I would lean more to suicide than to such deep resentment of my own children. Perhaps she is deeply depressed. It must be devastating to get a cancer diagnosis on top of raising challenging children, no matter how you feel about your children’s condition.</i></p> <p>PGP, I'm working on the process of adopting an autistic child which will take few years to do so. But the fact is, I met a number of autistic parents who are raising autistic child and both (the parent and the child unless proved otherwise) are vastly more intelligent than I am (I only have a 119 IQ score on the Raven) and they confirmed what I deducted out of my own experience of helping raise a neurotypical child from 10 y/o up to her current 16 y/o for one key detail: she know how to assess me and help me to the degree that she can help me deal with 95% of my problems. Period. I remember having said that in a previous thread. The thing is, she helped me a royal lot during those years; probably as much as her mother (my best friend). I'm looking forward to raise an autistic child to the degree that the child will enlighten me to know how to raise him/her.</p> <p>I'll postpone any further comments for later on. I had a really rough week and understand that my post might not be the most coherent post possible but tomorrow, I'm off of everything beside laundry. So I'll be able to give a more accurate answer.</p> <p>G'night,</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274876&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="PRZh1UfqWMRUmFLwKW1LXqgFSnu3mUbcRM7JRkR2Nik"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274876">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274877" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415497981"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Personally, I think bankruptcy and losing the kids is in the top ten of worst things you can wish on a person.</p></blockquote> <p>I'm sure, given these examplars, that the remainder of the list will be fascinatingly well considered.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274877&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HXOpuPnAPOM8YBXTImfti6DLleiJsr_C_kuKqMvhthE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 08 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274877">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274878" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415509402"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Perhaps she is deeply depressed. It must be devastating to get a cancer diagnosis on top of raising challenging children, no matter how you feel about your children’s condition.</i></p> <p>This is why I follow the principle of not criticising someone until I have walked for a mile in their shoes. That way, it doesn't matter how much they dislike the criticism, because (1) I have a one-mile head start, and (2) I have their shoes.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274878&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="mIsQGbuZvCaWmKzohTWzyExNQf9vHm87Lr1X2LyGtmU"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274878">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274879" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415514913"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>My mother died of breast cancer when I was 14. This was long before MMR, so it couldn't have been autism-induced, but I'm interested to learn from Dr DeLong that she thinks it may have been looking after me and my brothers that lay behind my mother's suffering.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274879&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nwY9oa-A2TdD2Wv3jKfL736Lb1zfpsSKMULqp4vS4YI"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brian Deer (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274879">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274880" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415523919"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Alain: I'm not sure who you were quoting- possibly Denice- but that's not my comment in the blockquotes. Anyway, good luck with the adoption, and don't worry about the IQ thing. There are a number of books about the problems with IQ testing, and the most important thing about parenting is a high tolerance for mistakes and mess. And a sense of humor.</p> <p>Narad: Well, I personally think sexual assault is the worst thing to wish on a person or to suffer through. No one blames murder victims or theft victims. Plus victims of SA lose family and friends immediately.<br /> Bankruptcy is awful unless you happen to be rich, since people need money to live at least in the states. And death- well, that's awful and legally actionable.</p> <p>In this particular case, losing her kids would be problematic for "Dr.." Delong, since she has little identity outside of being a "mother" to autistic kids. (Putting mother in quote marks because as I mentioned in an earlier thread, the parent-child relationship has long been severed.) Also, someone should write to her alma mater about rescinding that degree.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274880&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="m-E4FTPmGAgz5JZ2j9fDItVX5P2ykFIggAO6us_k_qg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274880">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274881" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415528482"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Sorry, I was a bit too harsh on Dr. Delong. What can you really expect from someone who studied- and teaches entrail reading for the new millenium?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274881&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="If7Ycp3hZ9u3GxJnBVgsbmV6_s-fE-k7tCZ6Z1busbc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274881">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274882" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415533228"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Then, there's this anecdotal story.</p> <p>When my developmentally disabled child was young and I was caring for him 24/7/365, I developed a duodenal ulcer. A few years after, damn science proved that caring for a special needs child really doesn't cause duodenal ulcers.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274882&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="e9zBYJLJXChGXfTNB42iU9DMo7D5yScpqzMel941Ud8"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274882">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274883" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415533949"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>But, you've got to give it to Ms DeLong. She is sufficiently in the know about how the game is played to fabricate an acronym for a nonexistent syndrome.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274883&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="RL_gMux7H1AItttReKoBrHQYO7CmnY3StHuN_XI5ZCg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Brian Deer (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274883">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274884" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415534192"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Bankruptcy is awful unless you happen to be rich, since people need money to live at least in the states.</p></blockquote> <p>Bankruptcy is a way for individuals to <b>preserve</b> meager assets. It <i>doesn't work</i> if you're rich.</p> <p>Most nobody wants to declare bankruptcy, but likening it to losing one's children (and, now, sexual assault) simply demonstrates how disconnected from reality you are.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274884&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="9d2BFgvPSzOFWRNxB44msW4PEGi9hGdIJGP-3BUT4f0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274884">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274885" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415534493"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The critters at AoA have done their "research" on the internet and a making recommendations for Ms. DeLong "treatments", including this one:</p> <p>"I have never had to battle cancer, but I have seen lots of reports on successful alternative methods. Dr. Burzinsky and avoiding sugar are two very popular notes on the Internet. Google "cancer glucose" to learn more.</p> <p>Posted by: HeidiN | November 08, 2014 at 08:39 AM"</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274885&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="Vp7HXuM3qGDCoyJn1Q_8KCEX7qyl0Ko6K1pRqrgya5I"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274885">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274886" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415536207"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>I was diagnosed with DCIS in my left breast in late 2011. I had 2 surgeries &amp; underwent a newer protocol of 16 days of higher dose radiation. My radiologist was careful to explain that there were ways of "bending " ( my simplistic term) the radiation around my heart; just a sliver of my lung was in the radiation path. Since her husband was a cardiologist, she was very aware of the need to keep my heart out of the path of the radiation..</p> <p>The process was kinda fascinating in a weird way. I could see the machine cycle from 1 side of my chest to the other; I only got zapped from the sides .</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274886&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="rlY0EH6LU6LPVDtsUqsxMHiUgc9jauz4mmXjK8UrPyc"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Nina (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274886">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274887" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415536273"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>@hdb</p> <blockquote><p>This is why I follow the principle of not criticising someone until I have walked for a mile in their shoes. That way, it doesn’t matter how much they dislike the criticism, because (1) I have a one-mile head start, and (2) I have their shoes.</p></blockquote> <p>The first part is a rule I'm trying to follow, whenever I manage to remember to act a decent human being.<br /> The second part made my day.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274887&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="TtxPeM7wZuo20bE8KU3etlCkjUSQHJol-OR2e8qtPp0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Helianthus (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274887">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274888" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415537590"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>In further AoA news, Mamacita TMR is busy grossly distorting her COFC case, including <a href="http://ia600407.us.archive.org/31/items/gov.uscourts.cofc.21182/gov.uscourts.cofc.21182.docket.html">why it dragged on</a> and insinuating that it was just about a flu shot rather than <a href="http://www.cofc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/VOWELL.JAMESON071513.pdf">a random laundry list</a> (PDF).</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274888&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="AeBxY8gZGpF7ge89IxDDQUERihZFoAc5EUTw4YHjLdo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274888">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274889" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415538355"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Oh well, I take a 24hr break from viewing that cyber-asylum and find hat Dan is praising his personal god(dess) of journalism, her book and her book party. Jameson is again carrying on about vaccine injury and readers provide DeLong with medical advice.<br /> ( non-existent) Lord almighty! What's a sceptic to do?</p> <p>HOWEVER one of my minions sent me an article which I will share yesterday's TPM LiveWire:<br /> 'Chris Hayes Grills Sharyl Attkisson Hacking Claim'.<br /> She's precious, isn't she?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274889&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="pxy5sTREEFQ7H4XvJYj2bGhhjsj5FAlD6wBEPI9CzL0"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274889">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274890" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415538836"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>‘Chris Hayes Grills Sharyl Attkisson Hacking Claim’.<br /> She’s precious, isn’t she?</p></blockquote> <p>As I've already noted, Hayes <a href="http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/10/no-evidence-feds-hacked-attkisson.html">isn't the only one</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274890&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="yeHKy4e4G47f_yPGIqajgZf-BD0SKkXCJLhAJ8LOrGY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274890">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274891" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415541188"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Narad:<br /> You seem to know a lot about law, but most people don't. I'm not surprised PGP is a bit confused about bankruptcy. There are different types, and different individual cases, of course, and I don't know all the angles well at all. But the option to declare personal bankruptcy is a great benefit for the not-well-heeled who get behind the credit 8-ball due to unforeseen circumstance. </p> <p>The thing is, few people know that, because capital does all it can to add to the stigma of bankruptcy, and promote the idea that "it will ruin your life!" Obviously, the banks that lent out the money in the first place want to keep getting interest payments on a principal that will never go down.</p> <p>There's a whole scam 'industry' of credit counselors preying on the stigma and vast public ignorance by luring debtors into schemes to avoid bankruptcy that just delay some immediate consequences and leave the client further in the whole.</p> <p>I didn't know anything about individual bankruptcy until I was in my mid-30s. I think PGP is young enough (??) not to have had the life experiences that would reveal the "reality."</p> <p>A few years ago, one of my former students (now friend) was living hand-to-mouth in L.A., trying to break into the film industry as a DP. He'd get gigs for a day or a week, on-again, off-again. Of course, he had no employer-based health-care, and considered a private plan beyond his budget. You know 20-somethings: they rarely get sicj and think they're immortal. So then his gall-bladder goes, and he's buried under massive hospital bills and maxed out high-interest credit cards. His dad had been a banker, and was adamant that he NOT go the bankruptcy route — filling his head with horror stories. </p> <p>My take was that very-Republican dad was more "No son of MINE is going to run away from his obligations!" So my young friend tried to avoid it as long as he could, but then the creditors hired really vile and unscrupulous debt collectors to go after him, and he eventually had to file to avoid going to jail. Of course, that let him get back on his feet, to the point where he could afford a minimal health plan, and didn't affect his employment at all. He changed careers, got married, had a kid... happy ending.</p> <p>Personal backruptcy is rarely an issue for the well-off. Rather, business bankruptcy is a way a lot of shady characters get well-off in the first place. There was a guy in my hometown who started a series of businesses that brought in a lot of cash-flow by undercutting the competition on price. Of course he was getting all his merch from vendors on long-payment terms, and once he'd drained off the income into an offshore bank account, he'd fold the business and leave the vendors in the lurch. Then he'd start another business and do it all over again. He was skillful enough that the law couldn't make a good case against him, and he could make his record look clean enough that a new set of vendors would let him open accounts without sensing a scam. </p> <p>And then there's Enron...</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274891&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="N4gxDZkjyq0FXvV4QwH06TAd_a5Z7SRRqfZCNNl4gb4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274891">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274892" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415544151"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Of course Sheryl's computer is acting weird. It's got a bug or two. She didn't want to risk the CPU becoming compu-atypical, so she didn't install an anti-virus program. Now her virtual brain is messing with herd immunity by embedding malware in all her outgoing emails. </p> <p>From Robert Graham at Narad's link:</p> <blockquote><p>Attkisson quotes an "expert" using the pseudonym "Jerry Patel" saying that the hack is "far beyond the abilities of even the best nongovernment hackers".</p></blockquote> <p>Graham suggests anyone who would make such a statement is not a computer security expert, but a quack.</p> <p>Perhaps Mr. Patel diagnosed the hack by feeling the computer's qi. But maybe not, as he surely could have set it right with Reiki, or accupressure on the network card, hard drive, CPU cooler.<br /> ........<br /> Actually going to woo-web pages upsets me, so I don't check out the real deal often. But I was confused about something Denice reported and went to Celia Farber's FB page to check. Of course, she's all outraged about the Black Hacker conspiracy targeting Sheryll. But i had no idea how thoroughly detached from reality-in-general folks like Farber, Attkisson and their fans are. I thought they had delusions on this issue or that. But it's a total beyond Lewis Carroll fantasy land. They don't actually know ANYTHING about any of the stuff they carry on about. The operative definition of 'investigative journalism' seems to be 'ask another kook.' There's tons of literature on hacking, several books on Kevin Mitnick alone. Like other legendary hackers, Mitnick's tech skills were limited, and he relied on 'human engineering' to get unwitting folks to reveal passwords until he got to root. If Attkisson was the target of a minimally competent hack, she'd never be half the wiser.</p> <p>The real fantasy here is the belief she has anything remotely incriminating to anyone on her computer, and that even if she did, anyone would actually care.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274892&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="EOKK-A4RRqRttUnRo_fFfti0sOI_60DspO1NbRSQ8b4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">sadmar (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274892">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274893" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415544590"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>More information about Sharyl Attkisson...including comments by the RI Regulars:</p> <p><a href="http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/11/whatever-happened-sharyl-attkisson#comment-1678515250">http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/11/whatever-happened-sharyl-…</a></p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274893&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="VD3rxY7dmrvmRdDLFHhh6xHDSHCgi2zBkQAokYY-fWE"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274893">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274894" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415546619"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Whatever Happened to Sharyl Attkisson?</i></p> <p>The parsimonious explanation is that <b>nothing</b> happened, and that she was <i>always</i> a self-glorifying bullsh1t artist with a propensity for making stuff up to support the narrative-du-jour, these traits fitting in perfectly comfortably into CBS journamalist. Until the gap between her obsessions and observable reality became too large to ignore.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274894&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="nIvDZzD2hYaftSgc_HwsrfAdQvlkE1s4R9om9HrA7XQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274894">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274895" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415557635"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>sadmar " had no idea how thoroughly detached from reality-in-general... "</p> <p>Sure. I know that psychologists often speak of 'conflict-free zones' but there is also a general level of reason/or not in people's communication. Prior to landing in psychology , I first studied literature, writing and language, later I explored topics like the development of kids' cognition as revealed by their speech/ writing and the verbal productions of people with SMI as recounted by classical psychiatry and more recent psychological testing.</p> <p>Needless to say, AoA is very interesting to me although I cannot OBVIOUSLY make any diagnoses from people I never met<br /> ( beside the ethical issue involved)</p> <p>BUT we should never forget that these people are writing for an audience and there is competition to say the most outrageous things and to be the ultimate rebel or freedom fighter or whatever the h3ll it is they're idolising this week. </p> <p>However, I will go as far as to say that- most likely- quite a few of the regular contributors at these outlets could, IMNSHO, benefit from counselling.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274895&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="ShRL_sLZX0MxdFRoM8o9ATv4h4GWj1zxb9BTcuZQuVg"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Denice Walter (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274895">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274896" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415563339"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>I’m not sure who you were quoting- possibly Denice</p></blockquote> <p>PGP, tap your heals together and say "there is no place like 'find in text' under the browser's edit function"<br /> ========================================= </p> <blockquote><p>My radiologist was careful to explain that there were ways of “bending ” ( my simplistic term)</p></blockquote> <p>Nina, that sounds like a type of 'gamma knife' -- beams of rad are passed through the body from multiple directions so that no one cross-section/path is lethal yet the cumulative dose at the focii is. -- It doesn't 'bend' though there is still undesirable backscatter. </p> <p>The one that moves around is called a Cyberknife<br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberKnife">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberKnife</a> </p> <p>It seems like a totally great idea some eggheads thought up; It didn't work out so well for Bruce Banner but he probably had more going through his mind than holding his breath while aiming.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274896&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0642We5RVCeTDPymyVzdLP2uK-crCCLZLNi2jCa2Vng"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Wizzard of (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274896">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274897" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415566644"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>This is fucking despicable.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274897&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="anRQHfd5QiPKpN78-7BvyYjwarzDrCoNVknab61v_3g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Dr. M (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274897">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274898" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415567510"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>I’m not sure who you were quoting- possibly Denice- but that’s not my comment in the block quotes</i></p> <p>My mistake, I was quoting Dorothy (and ended up speaking to you about tiredness....)</p> <p>Alain</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274898&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5QbzcuQmn-0NtzSVCBB4rHU0_giRKcaZdFqhxouKz1A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274898">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274899" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415567547"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>about === out of</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274899&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="-BMgYn6FiK5MxRfUVvXLxBHkWPNXzwXImjzNSAvHXfo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Alain (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274899">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274900" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415574138"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Wizard: I'm kinda in a hurry currently.</p> <p>Alain: No sweat. Take care of yourself.</p> <p>Narad: Generally, bankruptcy isn't a good thing. That's why I wished it on "Dr." Delong. I hope she recovers, but a dose of hard reality might be good for her, and it doesn't get much harder than a bed-bug infested studio in a down-at-heels part of town.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274900&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="sQewCAKEI3qeDlmGRafqqxzEozLzwJhXoL8OxpAOq90"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Politicalguineapig (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274900">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274901" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415575606"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Nina, that sounds like a type of ‘gamma knife’</p></blockquote> <p>Or something like prone <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24674184">AWBI + IMRT</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274901&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="d8L9FZmqZdMQHMmw2vZNGxceNClKPWymaIETzuT4oLk"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274901">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274902" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415577299"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>it doesn’t get much harder than a bed-bug infested studio in a down-at-heels part of town</p></blockquote> <p>That's <b>not what bankruptcy means</b>. I have <i>already pointed this out</i>. If you can't actually be bothered – after having been given <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvblmN1hEw">directions clear</a> – to unwind what you <i>really</i> mean, which is wishing some sort of selectively chosen fruition of your personal mass of inchoate fears upon someone else, then there's not just nothing worth saying, but nothing worth listening to.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274902&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="HXPyBQiyWr0i4-FioCK2LZce3vEK3lGkTetEaHU8v9g"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274902">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274903" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415579009"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>The newest type of ink used for radiation treatment of breasts is invisible. I've seen the dark blue ink tattoos on White women (and I never really thought about the difficulty locating those tiny dark blue ink tattoos on women with darker skin):</p> <p><a href="http://radiationtherapynews.com/2014/11/07/breast-cancer-patients-benefit-invisible-tattoos-radiation-therapy/">http://radiationtherapynews.com/2014/11/07/breast-cancer-patients-benef…</a></p> <p>It's not just the down-at-heals locales you have to worry about when it comes to bedbug infestations in apartments:</p> <p><a href="http://www.nyshcr.org/aboutus/offices/housingoperations/2010_b07.htm">http://www.nyshcr.org/aboutus/offices/housingoperations/2010_b07.htm</a></p> <p>I'm so bedbug phobic that I never unpack my suitcase in a hotel/motel. What cannot be hung up, stays sealed in closed luggage on a luggage rack.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274903&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="1QVeAXawRvydJTx_St32lgsTc4Nk8xFDsZT9Zj50DTA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">lilady (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274903">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274904" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415579611"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>It didn’t work out so well for Bruce Banner but he probably had more going through his mind than holding his breath while aiming.</i></p> <p>"What's going through your mind right now?"<br /> "A whole lot of gamma rays."</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274904&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="5QdU0KqY_0saUy-Jl0AUG3Me_oBGw4p6PNHo2C6arrA"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 09 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274904">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274905" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415619350"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>"wishing some sort of selectively chosen fruition of your personal mass of inchoate fears upon someone else"</i></p> <p>To be fair, that pretty much describes PGP's entire posting history. </p> <p>Again, I'm late to the party and what I was thinking has already been said better than I could.</p> <p>She doesn't really care about her children. For these mother-martyrs, the child is an extension of the self. Extensive self-purification and self flagellation will no doubt cast the changeling out and reunite the Good Child with the Good Mother, and both shall look down upon the Bad Mother, who has the temerity to be a working mother or let their child eat a hamburger on a white bun.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274905&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="xg-DWu_gW5QSUaN3d6t_pEvB-2QHKJxZttlnweP2Y4A"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Horatio (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274905">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274906" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415620386"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Bankruptcy is often used colloquially to describe the process of going into increasing debt, losing your savings, and selling off a substantial portion of your assets before the actual bankruptcy which, as Narad says, is for the protection of assets and a mediated way to settle with creditors. Of course, both the run up to bankruptcy and the bankruptcy itself will destroy the person's credit rating. If you file for bankruptcy in a timely way (i.e. before you completely run yourself out of money), then I'm told it can be a good thing. There's the whole "you've failed personally and given up on paying your debts" thing, but that's a cultural artifact and not a moral failing.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274906&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="SpaQGgzP-IhZH6F4-Z7Bh-jpO_D8469SsFNWrqP7REo"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="" content="Mephistopheles O&#039;Brien">Mephistopheles… (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274906">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274907" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415622858"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>"I have autism-induced breast cancer (AIBC). While I am not absolutely certain that the 1.9 centimeter lump that grew in my left breast is the result of the stress of raising two autistic children, all indications point in that direction. "</p> <p>Translation: "I couldn't think of anything else, so therefore my kids' autism is killing me!"</p> <p>I have to admit, it's definitely a novel approach for making your child's autism all about you.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274907&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="fe0VwZom_3FvK18QpExxkPLQr9l6YHK_gOVB-WfJbCQ"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Calli Arcale (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274907">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274908" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415633376"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>Gayle DeLong's suggestion that her children played a role in her breast cancer diagnosis is patently absurd, which is why Age Of Autism will gleefully post it.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274908&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="FQ7NhMHZ3WcsVQYs5Ws4hJdRbbl5aoZNDBFIjLuMFb4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">a-non (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274908">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274909" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415634851"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><blockquote><p>Of course, both the run up to bankruptcy and the bankruptcy itself will destroy the person’s credit rating.</p></blockquote> <p>While credit utilization apparently accounts for 30% of FICO, so long as those bills are actually being paid until the filing, it's not of much consequence in the long run – a brief look around suggests mid-600's until the hammer falls.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274909&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="0tDXfeApwm4Gjsdzc59ZfQj1jlAWqtQn5Ht6KhADFro"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">Narad (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274909">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274910" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415645436"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p><i>Good Child with the Good Mother, and both shall look down upon the Bad Mother, who has the temerity to be a working mother or let their child eat a hamburger on a white bun.</i></p> <p>According to Segantini, the Bad Mothers spend their time <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_epwGIoKRLAc/S2Wnya2XmfI/AAAAAAAAAMo/iRpsd6uWRkU/s1600/the+punishment+of+lust.png">levitating above snowy landscapes</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Segantini#mediaviewer/File:Giovanni_Segantini_004.jpg">breast-feeding gremlins with their hair entangled in trees</a>.</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274910&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="u4ekY8Qtli3dPR59Ma3JXwXnMBjFGOLsG4qg1DtD8CY"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">herr doktor bimler (not verified)</span> on 10 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274910">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> <article data-comment-user-id="0" id="comment-1274911" class="js-comment comment-wrapper clearfix"> <mark class="hidden" data-comment-timestamp="1415895510"></mark> <div class="well"> <strong></strong> <div class="field field--name-comment-body field--type-text-long field--label-hidden field--item"><p>ORAC makes sure only those who side with him can post. So what's with that?</p> </div> <drupal-render-placeholder callback="comment.lazy_builders:renderLinks" arguments="0=1274911&amp;1=default&amp;2=en&amp;3=" token="QuMeI_zgAMwkEUq_4KEpsX0kCPfS53Rp2rlbFxfjwx4"></drupal-render-placeholder> </div> <footer> <em>By <span lang="" typeof="schema:Person" property="schema:name" datatype="">ORAC is WHACK (not verified)</span> on 13 Nov 2014 <a href="https://www.scienceblogs.com/taxonomy/term/4187/feed#comment-1274911">#permalink</a></em> <article typeof="schema:Person" about="/user/0"> <div class="field field--name-user-picture field--type-image field--label-hidden field--item"> <a href="/user/0" hreflang="und"><img src="/files/styles/thumbnail/public/default_images/icon-user.png?itok=yQw_eG_q" width="100" height="100" alt="User Image" typeof="foaf:Image" class="img-responsive" /> </a> </div> </article> </footer> </article> </section> <ul class="links inline list-inline"><li class="comment-forbidden"><a href="/user/login?destination=/insolence/2014/11/07/autism-induced-breast-cancer%23comment-form">Log in</a> to post comments</li></ul> Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:30:43 +0000 oracknows 21922 at https://www.scienceblogs.com