When Mrs. R. saw the Vatican for the first and only time -- as a lapsed Catholic the place had some kind mysterious attraction for her, almost like the swallows and Capistrano except that one trip was enough in her case -- she was aghast and repelled by the ostentatious display of such immense wealth when so many of its adherents were in poverty. Where did it all come from? For that matter how about the huge amount of money flowing from diaspora Jews to Israel? In each case the money is given purely on the basis of religious identity, another form of tribalism. Make no mistake, tribalism -- especially religious tribalism -- is a very profitable enterprise. Take a look at the American Protestant mega churches. And it's not just an American phenomenon. The Australians have been infected with this virus, too. Apparently no amount of biosecurity fumigation keeps it from crossing their borders. That also makes it subject to treatment by that most powerful of disinfectants, The Chasers (hat tip RobT):
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As always a trip here on Sunday Morning is much better than a boring sermon - thanks - what a hoot.
Hillsong is not joke. You think that you have got problems with Benny Hinn and the like. Well you ain't seen nothing yet. Hillsong have an unbeatable formula. They are very dangerous. They are very subtle.
please revere, with all due respect to Mrs. R, what did she expect to find in the Vatican, a couple of cold, damp drafty crumbling churches, the papal hovel, lots of soup kitchens for poverty stricken tourists? She never saw the Sistine Chapel or St. Peters on TV? Never heard of Michelanglo did she? Would she have preferred these treasures to be hidden away in some deep underground vault, hidden away from sight?
The same thing could be said for any large business or government. Perhaps we should subdivide Yellowstone and give the profits to the inner cities? Maybe sell the Grand Canyon, after all it is just a hole in the ground. Perhaps auction off the Declaration of Independence as I am sure the poor of DC could put that money to good use, at least for a short while. How much do you think we could get for that tattered old large flag that flew over Ft. McHenry during the War of 1812? Hell I wonder how much the Fort itself is worth. Its on prime waterfront propterty just a few minutes from downtown Baltimore and a short boat ride from the Inner Harbor and Fells Point. Probably millions. The poor could live off of that for a few weeks, don't you think?
Wow pauls lane, I didnt know that thousands of years of collections from the faithful went to building the Grand Canyon! great straw man fallacy btw! a natural treasure open to the public=palaces in a mini-state for a small elite of catholic leaders funded by their followers.
iRobot who the hell do you think funds the park services that keeps Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon? Perhaps not thousands of years of collections from the 'faithful' but a hundred years or so of forced collections from the 'faithful'. Get a new program, robot.
Tribalism is good business, you bet.
Team Red in the red uniform and Team Blue in the blue are aware of that. Living off it in fact.
It seems bizarre for someone to know so little about the history of the Roman Catholic church which played such a central role in Western art and history. That's like going to Lhasa and being surprised at all the gold plated Buddhas and gilded mandalas, assuming that they haven't been looted.
I remember learning about the Sistine chapel before I even heard about the Holy Trinity, but then, I'm Jewish. (Jesus Christ I had heard about because, hey a kid has to know how to swear).
Kaleberg: Mrs. R. knows quite a bit about the history of the Church and even more about the history of Western Civ. You miss the point. The Sistine Chapel is not an example of immense wealth. I doubt it cost much. What was so striking was to see the buildings, gold, huge accumulation of fine art cheek by jowl with thousands of African nuns and priests, obviously poor worshipers from all over the world and daily headlines which underlined the disparity between what was done with money taken from people who couldn't afford it and what could have been done with it. Because the Church or the caliphate sponsored artists doesn't validate their practices or their objectives in the least. I don't know if you have ever been to the Vatican, but since you are not Catholic you probably wouldn't have been as affected by it anyway (I was also brought up Jewish, so it didn't have the same impact on me as on her). Jews, BTW, are also inveterate tribalists. But then I don't have to tell you that.