Remember those clowns a few weeks ago? The scary clowns? I think they were trying to tell us something.
Did you know that 235,248,000 people are eligible to vote in the United States? Fewer than 120,000,000 of those people bothered to show up to vote this year, and turnout was considered high. Of those, about half, or one quarter of the voting population, elected a clown as our leader, because the clown promised to take steps to ensure a continued white majority in the United States.
That’s what happened in my world last night. What happened in your world?
Between the bouts of uncontrollable sobbing, I feel better than I thought I would should this happen. (And, yes, I thought this could happen, though I put the chances of a Trump victory at less than 50% but still significant.) Why do I feel a bit better?
Well, two related reasons. When Plan A fails, go to Plan B. And, we have two Plan B's, one foisted on us, the other ... well, also foisted on us.
The first Plan B was originally the main plan for the few million Americans who did bother to vote but who chose to vote for a third party, or to write in a candidate, or who may not have actually voted, in hopes of a Trump presidency not because they love Trump, but because they wanted to put an end to the American system, or to cause us so much grief and pain that we would have to strip down and rebuild our system. These are the people who tend to wear the racist Guy Fawkes masks, and love Wikileaks. Those born of the unholy union between Napster and #Occupy, though most are unaware of who their own father is (more on that another time, perhaps).
Yes, people did have that strategy, and just about enough of them, by my estimation, that they may have actually caused the Trump presidency to happen. They were nearly to a person privileged, or unaware of differential privilege, mostly young, male, healthy, and in no way a member any already repressed, soon to be more repressed, group. I deeply resent the fact that the special snowflake voters got to be actual special snowflakes in this election, but the fact is that they won. We have Trump, and now, no more patching the leaks or fixing the broken gutter. We have to do the whole tear-off.
So that was a demented, counter productive, unspeakable plan that some people had in mind, and now, it is our Plan, all of ours.
The second reason is a simple observation which I think should guide our activism over the next four years.
The Republicans -- and make no mistake about the fact that Donald Trump is their president and we will make sure that the Republican Party and this president are married forever -- are now in charge, all around. They have the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, and soon, the Supreme Court.
That is a bad thing. But, it is also a new thing. It has been years since the Republicans have owned the ball, and the bat, and the yard we are playing in. For so long, the Republicans have had only one single policy driver: Oppose the uppity black guy no matter what. For a while there, it looked like they were going to have to expand. Oppose the lying bitch no matter what. That would have been an easy transition for them.
But no, that is no longer possible. The Republicans are now in charge, so they have to actually do things. And, of course, that is what we all fear, that they can and will do things. But it is very important to understand how that works, and how to respond to it.
For starters, recognize the fact that a large part of the Republican Congress is relatively young, were put in power by the Tea Party, often displacing members of their own party, and have hardly ever, if ever, had to do anything but engage in the politics of blind opposition.
Those that are older, not members of that first group, include those who have sold their soul to the Tea Party, and are ready to bend over again as necessary, so they can be included in that first group. Others that are older are, well, old, and will be going away soon. A small number of the elder Republicans are those that might remember something of governing, and by today’s standards may be something less than monsters, but they will be set aside by the large central core and made irrelevant.
If the Democrats had won both houses of congress and the White House, then Republicans would have already started, this very morning, demanding to know why they have not fixed this or that problem. Well? What have you done, Democrats, now that you are in charge? Were you just going to stand there and do nothing?
The Republicans have to be asked this question every single day, starting now. And here’s why.
Many of the GOP wet dream policies are actually impossible to carry out, or if they are carried out, would carry with them consequences that would feed back on the party in a negative way.
For example, the members of the right wing hate Obamacare, every one of them, right down to the ones who are taking advantage of it. Republicans have promised to end Obamacare right away. If they do that, a lot of people are going to be unhappy. If they don’t, a lot of people are going to be unhappy.
Let me draw a big thick line under this, add highlighting, and stick a post-it next to it with an arrow. Nobody can restructure our health insurance system without producing results that many will hate. But ..
1) Two parties working in loyal opposition can make progress and indirectly share blame by blaming each other; but
2) Two parties where the minority is not loyal, but only opposes, can only create a lesser system, and the majority carries all the blame for it; but then,
3) One party in charge of everything can’t do better than these options, but will get to take all the blame and credit, but since that party has spent decades stoking the cynicism of the voter, there will be no credit, only blame.
The Republicans, Trump and the Congress, will not be able to make a move, here on out, where they win. This is the system they created. They created a system where the status quo can never, ever win. And now they are the status quo.
It is easy to see how that works with Obamacare, because we can imagine many of those very same individuals who went to the Trump rallies, yelled at reporters, beat up guys with anti-Trump signs, etc. going home one day and finding out that their child, who has some terrible illness from birth, can no longer be covered by health insurance. It will be our jobs over the next several months to also imagine this pattern but in other areas of policy, including addressing climate change, the economy and jobs, and so on.
Starting now. Formulate the questions. Shout the questions from the rooftops. Demand answers.
At the same time, of course, we have to identify the other half of the electorate, the ones who don’t vote, and find out what they are doing, why, and bring them on board with the rest of civilization.
Added: I lived through something like this before indirectly. My father was a senior civil servant, in housing. He had been asked by Jimmy Carter to be his HUD director, but my Dad mad a deal, so he could not take that position during Carter's first term, but (likely) take that job in Carter's second term. Then, of course, Reagan got elected President.
So for the next 8 years, my father, a (relatively) liberal democrat running a public housing authority in a Democratic city under the president who promised to remove all the regulations and wipe out public assistance (and did so, in fact, in some areas), ran a housing authority that had started out millions in debt. He converted the debt to millions in surplus, totally overhauled all of the housing, added new housing, and with one notable exception, got every single project he wanted to implement done.
How did he do that? By a) recognizing the nature of politics under Reagan, and b) spending about one out of every four days in DC demanding answers like the ones I allude to above. In the end, he accumulated enough frequent flyer miles that he and my mother didn't buy a plane ticket for years, won more awards than any other housing director, reshaped how public housing at the medium scale works, and gained widespread appreciation. Things are named after him.
In other words, he mastered political Kung Fu. Not one's ideal Plan A (that would have been, for him, being HUD Secretary, and much more productive) but not a bad Plan B. My point: this can be done.
So, what's next?
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First... I apologize to the world for what Ohio did last night. I tried to stop it, but my one vote didn't seem to do much good.
Second, your part 3 of how the Reps will get all the blame seems logical on the surface. I can only hope and pray that this will happen if they manage to do something about it. However, the way the media (both actual media and Fox) will skew it, warp it and let the Reps spin it so that the blame will be shifted elsewhere. They will find some other scape goat (most likely poor minorities) and much like Germany late 1920s, anger will be fueled and peoples will be seen as guilty just for existing.
Trump is now the hardcore conservatives version of Barack Obama: campaigning on the idea of hope and change (just by moving in the opposite direction chronologically, to 1951 instead of 20XX).
All I want to do for the next few weeks is point out to those who I know voted for Trump that Obama was in office for eight years. In that time, guns were not banned, Sharia law did not enter play, the US is not a communist state, we weren't wiped out by ISIS, and gas prices fell. A lot of things that were predicted as doom and gloom by the right failed to come to pass, and I hope that bringing that to people's attention will do two things. First, remind us that Trump's rhetoric will not all come to pass, and second prove to Trumpers that liberals really don't want those things I listed, things of which we were accused by Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reily, Trump, and that weasle Alex Jones. By the way, does this mean Alex Jones is out of a job now?
Trump will probably ban guns and implement sharia law.
As I said in the previous thread, what needs to be done is for the Democrats to adopt the Republican techniques and work from the ground up to re-establish themselves. But that requires unity.
The special snowflakes will continue to delude themselves and count on some magic savior to get things done-- like when mom comes down and cleans their basement apartment.
Serious people need to focus on 2018, even though the numbers will be against the Dems. And they need to develop some younger strong candidates for 2020. Trump will be a one term President at most, although he may be replaced by a Republican challenger.
But make no mistake, the people who turned out for Trump are not going to hold him accountable for his failure to build a wall or deport Mexicans or bring back those manufacturing jobs...
I am a special snowflake.
I voted for Gary Johnson.
You blame me.
I blame you.
If everybody who voted for Clinton had voted for Gary Johnson, he would have won (sounds silly doesn't it).
You might as well blame all the Trump voters - as it is really their fault Trump won.
Every eligible voter has the right to vote in America and I certainly don't regret my vote.
I assume you don't regret yours either.
I understand you are bitter - but don't blame voters for exercising their constitutional right to vote.
George the thing about 3 is this is something that all of you who don't want the Republicans in power need to do as often as possible, on as many policies as possible and as publicly as possible. Here in the UK at the 2015 election five years after they went into coalition with the LibDems the Tories were still blaming Labour for making it impossible to deliver the previous lot of Tory manifesto promises. Hell they are still occasionally blaming Labour, and they've been able to get away with it because instead of doing their job as Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition of providing real opposition Labour have mired themsleves in internal squabbles. Do not make this mistake!
Internal squabbles? Us Democrats? Perish the thought....
I couldn't upload a great picture of how Canada will stop illegal Americans, so here is the link http://barfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/canadian.border.patrol.t…
Everybody knows that Brexit was fundamentally a right wing thing. Everybody knows who to blame when it goes horribly wrong. Labour were indeed not a credible opposition and certainly culpable for that, but they can't and won't be held responsible for UKIPs lies and racism and the opportunistic power grab by the Brexiteers on the Tory right.
A seagull president
flies in, squawks a lot, sh1ts on people from a great height the flies off
Greg, that is the most-sane, most-logical, and most-achievable set of goals and strategies I have seen since the present catastrophe struck, and I've been doing quite a bit of reading overnight.
You should publish it as a story on Daily Kos and try to get all the Democrats there signed-up for it. Right now they're all weeping & wailing, and in need of a plan.
Your dad had a plan and it succeeded. You've got a plan, partly based on his, and it has a darn good chance of working.
Do it: publish this anywhere you can, and get people onboard.
To that I would add: all of us can play our part by asking leading questions of any Trumpists we run into. NOT by doing that in a smug or condescending manner, but by seeming to be fully sympathetic and on-side. In other words by mastering the art of trolling to the point where the other side does not even realize it's being trolled.
The goal is not to convey "content" that can be written down in grammatically-correct sentences. The goal is to convey _feelings_, emotions, attitudes, "emotional narratives." Do not attempt to promote empathy, that's like serving a bowl of vegetables to a cat. Instead provoke disappointment, cynicism, and anger, in that order. "There he goes again, compromising with Mexico!" "I thought my health insurance would go down. Did yours go up too?" "I was hoping he'd drain the swamp, but it still looks like mud & mosquitoes to me." Etc. etc., think of your own, you can probably come up with better wording.
The goal is to get the rightie-whities as pissed off at Trump as the Special Snowflakes on the left were pissed off at Obama in 2010 (leading to mass "stay-home" and the resulting losses that enabled gerrymandering the hell out of the House). Make 2018 the new 2010.
G, I actually did put it on Kos.
If you're in need of a laugh today, here's a good one. Just watch time 1:22-1:42.
Obama's legacy cannot be destroyed. The massive participation of democrat voting people, amongst whom many republicans, have proved that. Make a coalition of all people willing to protect earth and life. Laren NH, Wednesday 9 November 2016, 19.18 Dutch time.
1. People from potential scapegoat groups (and if you have a PhD, you likely are one) ought to reconsider any feelings they have that self-defense is low-class and icky. We already have white terrorists attacking people in the streets. This will get worse.
2. If I were Muslim, I would look for a job overseas right now. Refugees are in most immediate danger of being rounded up for deportation to war zones (which may mean indefinite incarceration in camps first). Relatives of criminal suspects who are Muslim may be liable to torture and death. If you are not a member of this group, are you perhaps in a position to be a righteous white and help people who are?
3. Abortion, and perhaps some methods of birth control, are likely to be totally illegal in large regions of the U.S. within a year. There might be an exception for the woman's life - maybe. If this is an issue that is important to you, can you do anything to provide transportation for poor women to liberal states, or education regarding alternatives?
4. For the young and device-addicted: Please note that any chit-chat with trusted people about underground railroads and the like should be held only in person, or if necessary in written correspondence. No phone, no email, no PMs, no Skype. Never. If you want to make friends with someone whom you might someday not want to be suspected of helping, do not carry your phone when you meet them. It is very possible that we will soon be living under real fascism. Read up on Nazi Germany to see what it may be like.
What next? Maybe listen to the people that believed this was gonna happen and understand *why* it happened.
Michael Moore back in July: 5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win
#1) Midwest Math, or Welcome to Our Rust Belt Brexit.
I believe Trump is going to focus much of his attention on the four blue states in the rustbelt of the upper Great Lakes – Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
#2) The Last Stand of the Angry White Man.
#3) The Hillary Problem
#4) The Depressed Sanders Vote
#5) The Jesse Ventura Effect
And we might give some consideration to the words of Carl Sagan 20 from years ago:
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
Sagan saw the general shape of the predicament we find ourselves in and Michael Moore saw the specifics as it applied to this election.
"If everybody who voted for Clinton had voted for Gary Johnson, he would have won (sounds silly doesn’t it)."
And we would have another ignorant asshole in the White House, with policy ideas no better than Trump's.
Johnson doesn't deserve the time of day.
I believe we only have 1513 days to go.
Darn, I missed it, and I'm about to scoot for most of the day but when I get back to desk I'll look it up & hope it's on the Rec list.
United we will stand...
So you don't prefer Johnson to Trump?
Hi Greg- Found it & left a couple quick comments, now I've really gotta' scoot until this evening. THANKS majorly. Also see my last paragraph in this comment, I'd like your input and help with something, I'll probably send you a DK message tonight.
Jane @ 15:
Spot-on, and YES to all of that. We might want to start making room in our attics, basements, any spare rooms we might have, for "R&Rs," "relatives & refugees."
And keep the car tuned up & gas tank full, for possible emergencies such as driving people places. Look up the "sanctuary movement" of the 1980s that helped refugees from Central American wars & death squads, get to safe homes in the US. That was organized by progressive churches, one of the groups was East Bay Sanctuary Covenant, and we can learn from their methods.
Preparedness makes paranoia go away. If you have a spare tire, you don't worry about getting a flat. If you have food & water for two weeks, you don't worry about an earthquake or whatever can happen in your area. If you have a guest room for a visitor from another state who needs to go to a women's clinic, you can help her in a time of urgent need. Etc. etc.
Re. item (4), 30 years in tech here to say YES to that too. Also ditch GMail and Google Voice, Chrome browser, and Chromebooks: everything Google is a huge unregulated surveillance feed, with NSA watching the inputs & outputs and probably buying their analytics as well. Also beware Faceborg, their terms-of-service allow them to turn on the camera and mic on your mobile device any time they choose, without letting you know. And you won't know by looking at your device either. So ditch Faceborg unless you need it as an organizing tool, and ditch the "smart"phone for a landline and/or a basic cellphone with a removable battery (remove it when you need privacy).
Kevin @ 16:
Sagan was spot-on with that; he had an excellent grasp of the culture.
Today it's anti-vaccine nonsense on both sides of the aisle, and instead of horoscopes it's _polls_. I am absolutely outraged at the degree to which people use "polls" as a replacement for "crystal balls" and "prophesy." The trend-line on Daily Kos says 92% probability of HRC win and 66% probability of Democrats taking the Senate, and everyone gets complacent, and then THIS happens. _Happenstance is not a stance._
I'm going to write a piece for DK about the abuse of polling as prophesy-substitute, and say that the only acceptable use of polling is to rank-order the states (or whatever political demarcation e.g. demographics) to ascertain which of them need more GOTV effort. Greg, I'd like your help, critiquing my methodology and helping get it into proper shape. Goal: shift the progressive culture from crystal-ball gazing to using polls as a tool for more effective organizing & GOTV.
OK, I've really gotta' get out from behind my desk right now; be back this evening or tonight.
So you don’t prefer Johnson to Trump?
No, because the results for the two of them would be the same. Libertarian "thought" simply means "I got mine. Screw everyone else." You're just more comfortable with Johnson's approach.
“If everybody who voted for Clinton had voted for Gary Johnson, he would have won (sounds silly doesn’t it).”
And if everybody had voted for you, you would have won (sounds silly doesn't it). But certainly by Nov. 7th, it would have been apparent that that just wasn't going to happen.
Re: Snowflakes. Probably a number of factors. However perhaps the polls were thrown off by late deciders --very low information voters with short attention spans-- come to think of it, just the kind of folks who might naturally tend to find Trump appealing.
I'd like to commemorate 3 Anniversaries in German History that today were celebrated ( one isn't really a happy one) in the shadow of the news from your, that is the US election.
1. The proclamation of the first german rebublic on the 9th Nov 1918.
2. The Reichsprogromnacht 9th Nov 1938. Synagogues and Shops of Jews were destroyed.
3. The fall of the Berlin Wall 1989. That one is somewhat fitting, I think.
Best of luck to all of you and thank you Mr Laden for your election coverage. I think I speak for a rather large part of Germans when I say that we would have preffered Clinton. Oh, and by the way, we have a party here called AfD, which is basicly Trump in Germany.
Like in the near term?
Well, in the first 100 days of Trump’s presidency, whatever legacy Obama thinks he created over the last 8 years will be largely demolished.
And that’s a pretty good start.
That's the spirit, SN — now that your boy has won, continue with the gloating and divisiveness, thereby undermining your boy's ability to be the president of all the people, as he's just promised to do. (I'm assuming here his promise means something. Possibly naive, I know.)
If Trump doesn't start draining the swamp...introducing his decent policies like fixed terms for congress and harder rules on lobbyists in his first 100 days then, what?..apology accepted in advance
So you don’t prefer Johnson to Trump?
I think it's worthwhile at this point bringing attention to Greg's "silver lining": Having won all 3 houses, the Republicans now cannot achieve inaction through simple opposition and obstruction. If they deliver inaction, the fallout will fall squarely on them Republican policy will now stand a chance of being scrutinised instead of the usual distractions taking centre stage.
Meanwhile the Democrats can carry on a bit if introspection to see if they can figure out how to *walk* inclusion rather than just talking it.
The fact of the matter is this. Many churches throughout this nation were praying for this. Many Christians in Australia, Israel, and especially Iraq and Syria were fasting and praying for weeks at a time for a new awakening in America and new leadership. I saw videos of Iraqi Christians on their knees crying and pleading with God to send America a leader who would stand up for them in their time is distress and extreme persecution. My own church has been on this issue of a nationwide great awakening and revival for months now. I think prayers ave been answered.
I hear liberals complaining about women's rights, but I never see any of them complaining about how muslim men in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere treat women. Where are the left womens's rights people on this real issue?
The fact is that America was fed up with globalist socialist nonsense and wanted real change.
We are deeply distressed to inform them that the "awakening" did not occur, and in fact the opposite has befallen America: A great collapse of reason and widespread apostasy has resulted in placing an enemy of Christ upon the throne of power in 10 weeks time.
Again, we regret to inform them that the president-elect has expressed no desire to become involved with their plight, and will likely pull out any remaining American military support after taking office.
Those who have been praying for America's destruction, and the concomitant persecution of Christ's flock have indeed had their prayers answered, which is a great tragedy for the Christian community.
It is too bad that you have not had any access to the media until just now, as you would have been greatly heartened to hear and read about the widespread support of women around the world by liberals, and the outrage at they way some of them are being mistreated. But now that you have reconnected to the internet, I'm sure you will be joyfully linking to the many liberal sites that show this.
Actually, America is fed up with home-grown corruption of the Carnal Conservatives, and their oppression of the middle class and the poor, as they anger the Lord thy God Jehovah in seeking to serve and glorify the wealthy class, themselves, and their Lord, Mammon.
Please join us all in praying fervently to Jehovah that he will smite these Carnal Conservatives and defeat their beloved Lord Moloch and restore America to the Promised Land ruled by the Liberal Principles of our Lord Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ of came to deliver Mankind from the scourge of Conservatism. Y'all say "Amen"!
Trump Picks Top Climate Skeptic to Lead EPA Transition
Choosing Myron Ebell means Trump plans to drastically reshape climate policies
A lady from England posted this today for how minority groups are surviving Brexit
does this mean Alex Jones will pack his bags
I almost agree with you Greg, except...
I strongly suspect that no matter the egregious failures of Trump and the Republicans to materialise a "greater" USA, a large swathe of the 1-in-4 who voted for him won't accept that it's the conservatives' fault.
As Exhibit A I would point to the conservative coalition of the Australian Liberal (in name only) and National Parties. They've made a FUBAR of just about every single policy implementation for which they've been responsible since they came to office more than three years ago, and yet in every interview and on every media program they still blame the former Labor prime ministers Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, who between them were in actual fact spectalularly successful in implementing legislation, including some that with the benefit of historical hindsight will be seen to have been profoundly significant and beneficial for the good of the country. Trump and the Republicans will use the same tactic: it will all be Obama's fault, and Secretary Clinton's fault, and even though they're doing their best to turn it all around the damage was done before November 2016...
As Exhibit B I offer the decades-long refusal to accept the facts of climate science. This arises from a distinct psychological trait of the conservative mind - the cognitive scotoma. They will not easily let go of their fantasies about Trump and the GOP. As a consequence, the push-back against Trump and the Republicans will mostly have to come from the other 1-in-4 who voted for progressiveness, and from the 1-in-2 who are simply too disengaged at the moment to exercise their democratic responsibilities. And that last might be an uphill-with-a-little-stick task, but when it all hits the fan less from that cohort are likely to move to support the conservatives than to rally behind any push-back against them, so in the end it may be the straw that breaks the Trumpist back.
Basically, I fear that any real movement against Trump and the Republicans it isn't going to be quick, or elegant, or even paradigm-shifting, because there are several centuries of cultural mythology inculcated into much of the sociopolitical mindset of the USA's populace, and it'll probably take a permanent destruction of the 20th century version of the "American Dream" before enough people surrender their baggage and move to a new system. Hopefully that'll eventually happen in a world that hasn't become too irretrievably warm, or geopolitically fractured, or ecologically compromised, or economically incinerated...
It doesn't mean though that you don't start today doing your damnedest to route the canker.
And as an "if wishes were fishes" afterthought, had Sanders been the 2016 Democratic candidate the USA may well have leap past the scenario of the seond-to-previous paragraph and started a restructuring to become the greatest nation that it could be in the 21st century.
"My own church has been on this issue of a nationwide great awakening and revival for months now. I think prayers ave been answered."
If you were praying for a vice president who would be at home persecuting non-believers and executing gay and lesbian men and women in other countries, your prayers have been answered. If you were praying for a president who had made it to be blatantly racist and condemn people who aren't white simply because they aren't white, your prayers have been answered. Of course, if you prayed for those things you are (IMO) just another of the ignorant pieces of shit who sold out what the country stands for when you voted for trump.
If you didn't pray for those things but don't care that they are what you ended up with - you aren't any better.
@Doug Adler #31:
Just great. Is there some possible way to rub Ebell's nose (prosecution would be nice, but we'll settle for general public awareness) in the fact that he was a key player in an early campaign to intentionally disinform the public about the dangers of AGW? I give you Exhibit A, a 1998 memo from the American Petroleum Institute with Ebell's name on it as a contributor:
OK, so nearly 120 million didn't vote for Trump.
What's your problem?!?!??
PS, Clinton won more votes. Like Al Gore did. Gerymandering won Trump the election, not votes.
"The Republicans — and make no mistake about the fact that Donald Trump is their president and we will make sure that the Republican Party and this president are married forever"
yeah, the same republican party politicians who don't like Trump and never liked Trump and never will like Trump will like to take power, but they're still beholden to the multinationals, still wanting tax cuts *for them and those they know*, still wanting pork barrels to buy votes for them, and still have to balance the books.
The huge wall? Yeah, pork barrel city. Getting Mexico to pay for it? Not gonna happen. Arresting Clinton? Not possible. Cutting muslims from the airport lines and telling them they can't come in? Impossible, absolutely.
Look, instead of whinging about who won, and throwing your words back into your faces, forget about your complaining, who do we vote for? If you can't do that, then stfu.
"We are deeply distressed to inform them that the “awakening” did not occur, and in fact the opposite has befallen America: A great collapse of reason and widespread apostasy"
Um, didn't greg just tell us that half of voters didn't vote? That's not a collapse of reason or apostasy,
Cut the histrionics, you're only alienating your arguments from those who see it differently.
E.g. "Tell men not to rape" not merely doesn't work on rapists, since we already tell them not to do that, it alienates almost every man who never would rape, making them guilty by association of their sex. Put them on the defensive and they'll be too busy trying to explain themselves to listen to your aims.
"introducing his decent policies like fixed terms for congress "
How the hell is removing people who have experience in a job a decent policy? Are you proud of being an idiot?
"because instead of doing their job as Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition of providing real opposition Labour have mired themsleves in internal squabbles. Do not make this mistake!"
Actually, because any labour politician who doesn't espouse the same actions as a conservative politician would bring forth is derided and belittled as "unelectable" or "hard left" as if that were a priory proof of error.
However, what Trump HAS shown is that it's not what the media and pundits say is "unelectable", which Trump is and was, but that "escablishment" is unelectable, since it lost in the Republican Primaries to produce Trump as the candidate for the GOP, and failed against the arrogant lunatic in the presidential election.
Start rethinking what is "unelectable".
he has got the biggest "sucker list" database in the world - it must be worth millions, and it will be the gift that keeps on giving long after he has left the Presidency
You misunderstand the American election system.
Gerrymandering did not win Trump the election; the Electoral College did (or, will, assuming his electors remain faithful, which most expect to happen).
Gerrymandering did win the Republicans control/repeated control of Congress, however.
You appear to have forgotten about those who did vote... Just to support your position and allow you to say, "I told you so"??
Dutch daily news papers of November 9 and 10, 2016 have been designed with photo's in darkish ink. I recognize my feelings and thoughts in those of Jane, Kevin O'Neil and G. I think the USA would be better of with a one man one vote system. I would focus on that. For people who start to feel themselves too uncomfortable under Trump, think this over: fortunately the USA also has liberal states. Perhaps they offer opportunities for a new start. In USA's history Canada has always been a good alternative to live and work. In July 2016 Canadians I spoke with were very worried about Trump c.s.. They will not be surprised if many Americans want to migrate to Canada. Keep calm, carry on, be prepared and take precautions. Go for wisdom and courage. Laren NH, Thursday, November 10th, 2016, 17:41, PM Dutch time.
"" Gerymandering won Trump the election, not votes."
You misunderstand the American election system. "
No, I'm not.
manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class.
an instance of gerrymandering.
Well, if the numbers who didn't vote were relevant, why was the figure of 235 million written? Moreover, the voters for trump won him the election, not the voters for other candidates, so what is the import of this?
Metzomagic #36 I wish I could think of a way but I firmly believe that the MSM is going to actually be afraid of Trump - fearful that he will keep them away from his press conferences (he's already threatened to not let them accompany him to meet Obama at the WH) I think he's going to have a very extended press honeymoon - I hope I'm wrong though.
For those Americans that are interested there is a petition up on change.org requesting the Electors who are able to vote their own desires to select Hillary on the 19th of December. I don't know if that coiuld possibly work but it sure as hell couldn't hurt to try - you can sign it at https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-m…
Yup see how they built that list at http://anewdomain.net/2016/11/05/paramedia-how-rumor-mongers-and-preten…
Greg, I agree with G's first comment on this thread: this post was
I actually feel more optimistic after reading it.
Wow and Brains are arguing whether gerrymandering or the Electoral College is responsible for Trump's election. The real responsibility lies with the 59,821,874 voters who voted for Trump, the 6,116,253 who voted for a 3rd-party candidate, and the roughly 100 million who didn't vote. That is, ourselves and our friends and neighbors. We got the government we deserve.
Wow was arguing whether gerrymandering or the Electoral College is responsible for Trump’s election. "Argument from Ignorance", as it were.
I was pointing out what you are saying in a slightly different way: How the district boundaries are drawn does NOT make any difference in the presidential election; it's how the citizens vote that counts.
The district boundaries for the presidential race do not affect the outcome. However, they do affect the congressional race results. Wow is perhaps deaf or willingly not listening because he's too busy being 'right'.
Can Gerrymandering affect the number of electoral college votes an individual state can have, or only affect whether a particular seat in congress is red or blue?
Doug, it's the latter. The number of Electoral College votes is set solely by adding the number of senators to the number of representatives (or 3, whichever is larger).
Gerrymandering does not change that number. But it does change the demographics/political leanings of those in a given representative's congressional district, which strongly influences the outcome of elections for those HoR seats.
It should be considered sedition and punishable by hanging.
/snark, but really seriously as it destroys democracies
Sadly, Americans don't take this seriously enough. Like... voting. ::sigh::
Brainstorms - thanks - so it's the population level that determines the number of elected seats then in the House of Representatives wheras the Senate always stays the same. We have had some problems (though nowhere near as bad) with gerrymandering here in Canada but mostly not these days - see
if you are interested
RickA, I actually do not blame you for voting for Johnson. I blame the person who would normally vote for a Democrat who made a protest vote or did not vote at all. You are a Libertarian. Who the hell else would you vote for?
A problem has occured with the threats to kill Trump.
I have a lingering question for all the anti-Trump people who are threatening to assasinate him. I do not understand the logic here. My question is simple ...
In what manner would you assasinate him being that you are all anti-gun?
Are you planning to sword fight him. Probably not since owning a sword means you support Knights Templar and that makes you racist. Would you hang him? No racists hang people and liberals are not racists. My guess is you would take the same cowardly way out and act like a member of Isis and suicide bomb him or run over him with a car. Oh wait. That would not be decent either because both methods would contribute to global warming. Hmmm. You proposal to assasinate him seems illogical since you have no logical means in which method you would use that would not label you a hypocrite and go against what you say you stand for.
"In what manner would you assasinate him being that you are all anti-gun? "
If there are threats it is stupid and needs to be dealt with, but good grief Terry, your entire paragraph is a monument to stupidity itself.
Gerrymandering does not affect electoral college vote distribution or acquisition for the most part because it averages out by state and gerrymandering is within state. However, it would if states split the votes, and two states do split the votes, so a little.
Nobody on the left is planning to assassinate Trump. But, many, many people on the left are well armed. So, don't get any ideas, bubba.
For those interested in how distorted our system of governance is, gerrymandering aside, note that the number of seats in the House was fixed in 1911. Before that, it increased according to population growth so that each member represented a certain number of citizens.
So, do the math on population growth since 1911. The system is indeed rigged-- against densely populated areas.
Combine that with the Senate and its grounding in "one cow one vote", and what we have is a phony democracy.
If I were Trump, after he and Pence are sworn in, I would be worried about Republicans, not left-wingers. Should "something" happen, they would have it all-- a (seemingly) normal President in Pence, and free rein to cement their power.
Thank you for that.
If you are what you vote last, than I am a libertarian.
However, I have voted democratic, republican and independent in the past.
Why sometimes I even split the ticket and vote different parties during the same election.
I tend to vote for the person and not the party.
I did take an issue quiz and did identify most closely with Rand Paul - but he was trying for the Republican nomination.
Bottom line (in my opinion) - people didn't vote for racism - they voted against Hillary.
People didn't vote for sexism - they voted against Hillary.
People didn't vote for anti-Muslim - they voted against Hillary.
But it is perfectly ok and understandable to be upset.
Everybody gets to express their opinion, and vent.
Personally, I don't think it is a good idea to protest democracy - but it is a free country.
The 2nd amendment is probably looking better to people on the left today - because to the extent there is fear on the left, whether justified or unjustified, the ability to purchase a firearm, just in case, is probably a great comfort to some.
Many of these protestors are paid ones brought in on buses. Soros paid minions. Soros better be careful what he wishes for. Come January, he might just have some F-16s pay his private plane a visit somewhere over the atlantic and what better place to do it than at the Bermuda Triangle. I am quite surprised his planes has not been shot down by other governments by now as it is. I wish someone would give him a choice - stop paying your thugs to loot, burn and riot, or your plane might go down during a business trip. You know CIA and KGB and do things like that. if he feels like taking them on, go for it. See if this violent communistic karl marx crap stops then when he cuts off all their pay.
Greg I do not understand it. The left are well armed some of them, but they preach the gospel of gun bans. i do not understand the logic. Or illogic, here. I have no plans of my for violence and would not participate in a violent protest. I am quite well armed myself and not just with guns. I know how to use knives, swords, spears, tomahawks, and homeade booby traps (non explosive) particulalry mde for trapping animals, but could easily be adapted for human use if the need arises.
If people want to protest, then fin. It is their right under the constitution to do s, but f they think they are going to loot my house or burn something of mine in the name of karl marx, they are in for quite a surprise.
As for these goons blocking the highways, I blame it on the traffic. Stop slowing down. Plow through them and spaltter them and this nonsense will stop. I know several who went through these cities during this looter crap and one man in particular was about to be held back by protestors until he hung his shotgun out the car window. The blockers were more than happy to the hell off the road.
If you want to protest, there is a peceful way to do it, but blocking people going to and coming from work and school and lighting fires and beating up people and looting stores is NOT the way to protest. That is being an uncivilized heathen.
Sometimes i wish I had a cropduster so that i could fly over these thugs with pepper spray mixed with sewage and break this crap up. Literally. If you want to protest and be heard, then act like normal civilized people, not pagan satanic cannibal heathens. You will get alot more repsect that way. When you are seen rioting and burning and threatening to kill, it makes your adversaries angry and they start to push back. If it keeps going, then you have a civil war.
Protest peacefully and you will get respect. Martin Luther King Jr. demanded peaceful protest and because of his efforts he earned the respect of millions. Use HIS example to lead by. The man was a minister. A man of God. He set an example that if you are being treated wrong, you speak out, but you do it with number peacefully. Violence towards one side only cause the other side to retaliate.
Terry, you have by now earned a place in the inbox of the employees of a federal agency that shall for now remain nameless.
And no, I won't bother to tell you what part of your lengthy lunatic rants was most likely to have earned you the honor.
Pepper spray mixed with sewage? I guess vehicular manslaughter isn't enough for you, Terry; you advocate biological warfare as well.
I agree that violence has no place in a protest demonstration. But you need to remember how little violence took place in these protests, and that it almost certainly took place against the wishes of the organizers.
Just in case you think that most of the violence is done by those who object to Trump's victory, I'll also ask you to look at this account:
And, for balance, here's some of what happened after Obama was first elected:
Buddy, I was there a long time ago. I feel like your agency is probably laughing at you. I have felt they have been watching me and following for some time now. That white van that parked up the road from my house last summer never knew I had been watching them as well. They actually never knew that i got within a few feet of their silly little unmarked van and they never even noticed me in the bushes.
Not for being a violent person either. I have never committed a crime not ever plan to commit one. If indeed your agency has looked into me I am sure that my post on your little site is the least thing they are concerned about. I assume by now they have a holding place for me when Division 5 shows up to ask me questions( and I bargain with them for a job).
I assure you that I am already on some sort of watchlist and not for being a terrorist or criminal, but for what I know about what goes on in the shadows that you know very little about. I can assure you that my rant on your post mean no harm to any one and I can assure you that the agency you send my post to has about 3 million more like it to go through before they get to your complaint.
Greg, I do not disrespect you as a person, but you need to know that I am not your average Joe. I have been sick for two years and became quite concerned at time that I was being targeted by a shadow agency. I never saw that white van but a few times. Maybe they saw me bring my rifle outside the house and slip into the bushes with it. I don;t know. Maybe they figured out i had been watching them with binoculars just as long as they had been watching me?
At any rate, they probably have my house bugged anyway. If so, I hope they like Norewegian death metal, because it is all they hear besides talk radio and the Three Stooges. I bet they get bored listening to my house. I do not even take my cell phone with me. It stays at the house or in the car or turned off. I have been targeted on facebook by the feds a few times posing as a pretty girl interested in me. Evidently they were not very smart or they would know I am not interested in pretty girls nor wish to talk with a strange one with no friends. Whoever they are, they are not too smart.
Buddy, I can promise you I mean no harm here and the left are so sensitive(must be all the fluoride in the water destroying the pineal gland). I can almost assure you that a shadow agency already has my name on a list already.
Besides with the past left wing radical administration if your name has not been put on a watchlist by now, you are not very American. With that being said, I will leave your crazy delusional sight. In short, you do not get what has transpired, but when the rapture takes place and the devil has you in his grasp, I will not be here to help you.
As for Division 5, they already know about me. They might be partly responsible for my illness. Nevertheless, they can only kill me once, then one day when Christ returns I will be ressurected. What will they do then? Good bye and good luck with your future 7 year tribulation. I have made reservations to miss it.
Not coming back to this site again. I see it was a mistake to try to explain things to people who believe they are related to apes. Then again, the rioters act worse than apes, so perhaps your "scientific" theory of evolution has some merit. Not even animals attack their own kind like we have see soros paid protestors attacking America. Real special people. Anyone who needs therapy an counseling over the loss of an election probably need therapy to begin with.
Thanks for highlighting me to the agency. I am sure now my death will come even quicker. I fear not, for my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life and no agency nor man nor angel nor demon has the authority or the power to remove it. You have no power over me. None.
In the end I wonder how many people like yourself are on a government watch list? You should be. The left are very dangerous radical people. anyone who embraces karl marx is a threat to national security.
"and that it almost certainly took place against the wishes of the organizers."
But with their complicit allowance. Look up the phrase "Dogwhistle".
"the number of seats in the House was fixed in 1911"
But there's plenty of flexibility in how to draw state districts for those seats. It's not as if the seats are given out in proportion to the voting volume in the state for each candidate, is it.
The thing to do next is make sure Trump doesn't fuck things up, or the disasters minimised as much as possible.
If push comes to shove, just do as the Republicans did to Obama.
"Many of these protestors are paid ones brought in on buses. Soros paid minions."
Says someone with some serious issues in their mind.
More "liberal lies," eh Wow? I guess we liberals just can't help uttering the insolent words that fasten fast the chainy chains of servitude around the neck of Liberty...
(I'm going to get a lot of mileage out of those words of Thomas Frank over the next four years.)
Terry: "Greg I do not understand it. The left are well armed some of them, but they preach the gospel of gun bans. i do not understand the logic."
Not they don't. You don't *know* the left's position on guns, you think it is something other than it is, and that is why you don't understand it.
Yes, and unethically doing do to a particular party's advantage is called "gerrymandering". It does not affect the election for president. It only affects the ratio of party representation in Congress.
You make the assumption that the Democrats have the equivalent majority it Congress in order to do so. This is not correct. They will have run of the country (for at least 2 years).
No need to cite conspiracies involving things you're too stupid to understand. The simpler explanation - folks are just tired of assholes like you Terry.
Liberals just don't get it.......stop pointing fingers and learn from your mistakes......HRC totally weak candiate......
Hmm. Irony: someone pointing fingers at liberals and blaming them for finger pointing.
"It does not affect the election for president. It only affects the ratio of party representation in Congress."
And when one party has the majority of representatives...? The presidential nomination from that party or not?
No; each party nominates its own candidates (for any office, POTUS or Congress), regardless of how many or few members it has, or how many or few representatives it has.
The only way in which the congressional boundaries would affect the POTUS election is if the Electoral College vote were a tie. Then it goes to the House of Representatives. If gerrymandering had skewed the House elections to favor one party over another, then in this scenario, they would have an improperly biased vote for POTUS.
Otherwise, gerrymandering improperly skews the party representation in Congress (both houses). It also impacts local elections (mayor, state legislatures, etc.).