Oh, no! The gay bands are here! Hide your children, and keep them away from this corruption! So sayeth Donnie Davies, an evangelical preacher who runs a website called Love God's Way:
One of the most dangerous ways homosexuality invades family life is through popular music. Parents should keep careful watch over their children's listening habits, especially in this Internet Age of MP3 piracy.
Oooh. Scary!
But let's look at the list of bands that Davies thinks we should all watch out for and protect our children from. The first thing I noticed is that Elton John is listed twice. Given what a total diva queen he is,that may actually be the only appropriate thing in Davies' fevered homophobic rambling, although the comment after the second mention of Elton John's name ("really gay") cracks me up. Elton John? Really gay? Ya think?
Davies clearly has a thing or two to learn. After all, he lists Morrissey as "questionable?" regarding whether he is gay. Come on, dude, even though Morrissey is notoriously tight-lipped about his sexual orientation and claims to be celibate, have you ever listened to some his Smiths songs, like This Charming Man or I Want The One I Can't Have, or his solo work, like I Have Forgiven Jesus (in which at one point Morrissey asks Jesus in his usual inimitable fashion why He gave him "so much desire, when there is nowhere I can go to offload this desire")? Basically, Morrissey seems to be celibate and closeted, but definitely gay, at least as far as I can tell. And don't get me started on Wilco? Wilco, a "gay band"? I think Wilco's a solid band, albeit overrated, but either gay or "propagating a gay message" (whatever that means)? That's a stretch. (Some ScienceBloggers here won't be happy about this bit of idiocy, I suspect.) And The Rolling Stones? Please. That fling between Mick Jagger and David Bowie was a one time thing and happened nearly 35 years ago! Really. Bowie's even been happily married for nearly 15 years now to a really hot model, Iman, and Mick's spent the last four decades bedding and marrying various models and singers, producing children by four different women.
It's obvious that Davies has no clue what he's talking about (Metallica, The Doors, and Kansas are all "gay bands"?), but it amuses nonetheless to look at which of these bands/performers that he thinks we should "watch out for" whose CDs happen to reside in my music library. Let's see, out of the list: Elton John? Check. (I have lots of Elton John CDs.) David Bowie? He's only my favorite rock performer of all time, nearly every album of whose I have in my CD collection. Smiths? Check. Morrissey? Yep. Let's see, here are the others that I have in my collection, and for some of them I have several CDs: BjÅrk, The Faint, Interpol, Pet Shop Boys, The Doors, Queen (I have most of their albums on CD), The Strokes, Sufjan Stevens (one of my favorites right now), Metallica, Judas Priest, Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Arcade Fire (my favorite new band of 2004), Depeche Mode, Kansas, Velvet Underground, Nirvana, The Killers, Lou Reed, Frank Sinatra...
Holy crap, wait a minute!
Frank Sinatra??? The Chairman of the friggin' Board? Main man (with Dean Martin) in the Rat Pack? Either my gaydar isn't working, or this website has to be a joke. Or maybe--just maybe-- Davies has been punk'd in response to his request:
In Our effort to keep this list up to date we'd appreciate your help. If you know of a band that is Gay or propogating a Gay message please email us so we can update. Donnie is handling this his email is: donniedavies@gmail.com
Yes, I'm guessing he's been punk'd, rather than having a big joke at everyone's expense as a means of self-promotion. For one thing, there's too much other wacky stuff on his various websites that's similar to what I've seen other fundamentalist preachers say about rock bands. Someone who doesn't really believe this stuff would have a hard time making this stuff up. Davies also missed some very obvious candidates. Hellooo! R.E.M., anyone? Michael Stipes? What about one of the most openly gay bands of all time, Bronski Beat? I know Bronski Beat t hasn't existed for 20 years, but neither has Frankie Goes To Hollywood, and that band somehow made it onto Davies' list. And what about gay icons like Liza Minelli? Come on, dude! You have a lot to learn about real gay music! (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to point out more omissions.)
But even more amusing is Davies' list of "safe" bands:
UnderOath
Cyndi Lauper
Falling Up
Flyleaf
THE TURNING
Disciple
P.O.D
By The Tree
Scott Reed
Michael W. Smith
Jars of Clay
DC Talk
Danielson
I'm sorry, but I submit to you that, given the "quality" of their music, P.O.D. and Jars of Clay are not safe for anyone. Nor, for that matter, is Davies' own band Evening Service, and as evidence for my assertion I submit to you this video, in which he sings "God hates a fag," "if you're a fag he hates you too," and that "being gay is a nothing but a choice." (On second thought, maybe this whole thing is a joke; no one could be serious about something like this, could they? I mean, look at the lyrics, as provided by Pam!) Indeed, he's even appropriated Psychedelic Furs' classic song Love My Way to his own nefarious ends as Love God's Way. In fact, none of the bands certified by Davies as "safe" is, actually, so (at least not if you count talent), with the possible exception of Cyndi Lauper. Indeed, if I were Cyndi Lauper, I'd consider suing to demand to be taken off this clown's "safe" list.
No self-respecting rocker or pop star can tolerate being on Donnie's list of approved bands. It's bad for her image.
So who is Donnie Davies? Well, he claims to be a "reformed" homosexual:
C.H.O.P.S is the powerful new program developed by Christian Youth expert Donnie Davies. C.H.O.P.S stands for CHANGING HOMOSEXUALS into ORDINARY PEOPLE.
If you have been having feelings that you DO NOT want to have towards people of the same sex as you, then this is the program for you.
If you've been acting on those same feelings, then this is DEFINATELY the program you've been looking for.
Hello Friends, I hope you take the time to read the quote by our good friend and compatriot, Oscar Wilde. In that one quote Oscar brings to life the isolation and despair of what he refers to as "us", the homosexuals. It is a long, lonely, desolate road, homosexuality. I've been there, friends. I know how horrible and rough that road can be. I have been called a "Faggot". You are not alone and guess what, God Loves You even if he hates your Homosexuality. You just can't stay that way. Let me help you love yourself. Follow me and together we'll C.H.O.P.S away the Gay.
If his video is any indication, Donnie probably needs another C.H.O.P.S. treatment.
Of course, Davies is full of crap; there's a strong genetic component to sexual orientation, and most homosexuals can't just "go straight," even if they want to. It's not as though this hasn't been tried time and time again and met failure again and again. Trying to force gays to "go straight" will just result in psychological harm or will turn them into closeted or celibate gays. In most cases, it will succeed only in making them miserable. (Maybe that's the whole point.) But it's worse than that. Donnie doesn't just stop there:
Oscar Wilde, my hero, was a reformed homosexual. He went to prison for his sins. Once he was alone with his thouhgts, in jail, he saw the errors of his ways and repented. He died as a Christian. While I'm not advocating jailing all Homosexuals, I do think it would benefit them greatly. It would be for their own good. When a person is forced to think they will generally be able to see their problems and solve them by themselves.
Lovely. How long before we see Davies meeting up with "Reverend" Phelps?
ADDENDUM: Jesus' General has a take on it that, given that Ted Nugent's brand of ear-splitting metal still happens to be one of my guilty pleasures:
Pam also showed me your list of bands who promote homosexuality. It's a good list. You have all of the usual suspects, The Doors, Cole Porter, The Eagles of Deathmetal, The Village People, Ravi Shankar, etc, but I have to wonder why you left out Ted Nugent. The man sings songs about "bears" and wears a loincloth for heaven sakes.
Loincloths have special powers, special evil powers. A man, no matter how committed to a heterosexual lifestyle he might be, can't resist staring at a well-filled loincloth. The staring leads to all sorts of impure thoughts. Throw in a song about a bear, and the next thing you know, you're in a dingy Vancouver dive trimming some lumberjack's timber for smoke money.
So please consider adding Ted Nugent to your list. The guy's a one-man recruitment machine.
Indeed.
ADDENUM #2: Dan Savage has some ideas about whether this is a hoax or not, arguing that Davies may be both a hoaxer and a homophobic jerk. He has a point.There's also a rather lively debate over whether or not this is a hoax, with the majority of participants concluding that it is. You be the judge, but, before you decide, peruse this extra bit of evidence.
What say you?
Wait until he reads his Bible, and finds the bit where David and Jonathan take oaths with their hands between each other's thighs, IIRC, or John being the disciple that Jesus loved (why stress the point, when He loved everybody, unless there was a special sort of love?).
Sigh. Yet another evangelical nutbag control freak, who gives honest Christians (real Christians) a bad name. I suspect Jesus would not be impressed with that man, and that the word "Pharisee" might be mentioned in the context of his approach to life.
Cole Porter? Red Hot Chili Peppers? Nickelback? Corrine Bailey Rae?
The man's insane.
Ha! This is a gas!
And I'm not sure Cyndi Lauper is "safe". The only time I've seen her live was for a gay pride event.
On a side note, I'm pleased to see that one of my favorite bloggers and I share some taste in music.
All the more reason for her to demand to be taken off Davies' list.
He forgot Liberace...
Dang kids and their jazz music! It's ruining the country I say!
And what about that crazy Mozart? Lousy long-haired beatnik!
I guess raggin' on the kids for listening to music different from the music you listened to as a kid never gets stale...
Where's the biggest gay band of all time??? I'm talking about the BEATLES. Brian Epstein, their manager, was openly gay. Rumors of flings with Elton John, Mick Jagger, and David Bowie still haunt the ghost of John Lennon. On a related note, why is Ravi Shankar on that gay list?
That video was creepy. The guy smiles way too much and is obviously suppressing stuff in a huge way. The feeling I got watching it made my stomach knot up a little. If you are homosexual, just be homosexual. Geez, why do you feel the need to change? Rejecting something you cannot change makes you creepy and will manifest as something really bad in the future. Loosen up and chill out is my motto.
And, by the way, that stuff about Oscar Wilde is what I believe sociologists refer to as 'horseshit'. He spent his post-jail years gleefully shagging his way through the gilded youth of Paris, before a highly dubious deathbed 'conversion' during which he appears to have been unaware of what was going on.
Kansas is a gay band?
"While I'm not advocating jailing all Homosexuals, I do think it would benefit them greatly."
What was the old Yakov Smirnoff joke? Something like "Homosexuality is a crime in Russia; the punishment is to be locked up with other men for seven years. There is a three year waiting list."
I am tempted to googel "Christian Bands" and forward the list to the "Good Rev" and out them all. Hillarity ensues..
And of course, remember those "Up With People" do-gooders? All gay, it is well known. Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Boys? Choir? Need I say more?
The "Good Rev" just needs to spend more time with the Rev Haggard and it will all become crystal clear to him.
One question: BjÅrk?
She's not singing about gay male sex. In fact, I don't think Vespertine even has anything to do with heterosexual female attraction to men. It's actually the voice of a pan-dimensional being protruding itself into our consciousness. Our brains interpret its profundity in the only way they know how, but this is the merest shadow of their true meaning, just like constellations are only the projection into flatness and stillness of the stars.
Don't forget the Wiggles! Hey, just what did you think "Do the Monkey" was about anyway?
Oh, Bjork, Bjork, were you brought by the stork,
or were you created with butter and cork?
I love you so much that I act like a dork,
oh Bjork, oh Bjork, oh Bjork.
...Lore Sjoberg, I miss you.
Eight minutes searching the archives of the Windy City Times (one of Chicago's gay newspapers) disclosed that Cyndi Lauper played at the 2006 Gay Games and at an Equality Forum celebration, was a celebrity signer (along with Elton John) of a UN petition to decriminalize homosexuality, appeared in a PFLAG ad with her sister, made a cameo appearance on "Queer as Folk", and is referred to as a "gay icon". Either she's on the safe list by clerical error or Davies became acquainted with her music in his pre-"reformed" days and just couldn't give her up.
Stephin Merritt and any one of his bands (The Gothic Archies, The Magnetic Fields, The 6ths, etcetera) are all perfect candidates for gay bands. If you've ever heard "I thought you were my boyfriend" you'll know what I'm talking about.
That said, I'm reasonably certain that this is just brilliant satirical social commentary.
Other glaring omissions:
Black Sabbath (Iron Man??? GAAAAYYYY)
AC/DC (Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap - Sounds like gay prostitution to me!)
Aerosmith (Love in an Elevator - Obviously between two guys!)
At least he got Metallica right (The Unforgiven, Enter Sandman. Who is this sandman, and what (or who!) is he entering????!?!?!).
[/snark]
Tchaikovsky, this tortured homosexual, who committed suicide because of his sexual orientation, should be on the list, too. No more listening to his wonderful concertos, symphonies and ballets, no more overtures and marches or unbelieveable chamber music.
I remember a couple of years ago an article by the 'great' Cal Thomas about the treatment that converts homosexuals to heterosexuals. I wrote this 'expert' a letter, offering to be put to the test as a heterosexual who wants to be converted to a homosexual. After all, the methods used should be working both ways.
BTW, I believe that there is a genetic connection between being homosexual and having artistic tendencies. I bet, statistically, there is a greater proportion of artists among homosexuals than among heterosexuals, similarly to those tendencies amont left-handers (I wonder if there is a greater proportion of left-handers among homosexuals than among heterosexuals ;)). Also, most homosexual artists will be more inclined to declare their homosexuality than non-artists (unless, of course, you know how to Folley your way by e-messaging on your cellphone or if John Kerry is using your daughter homosexuality in his presidential campaign).
j-dog: "Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Boys? Choir? Need I say more?"
erm.. TMTC is all adults and mixed gender. Its the Catholics who have boy choirs, IIRC. Coincidence? I think not. And I would like to point out that I have never had the urge to stare at the Nuge in a loincloth. Call me crazy. But, be that as it may, I really hope this is satire and not real. One Phelps is more than enough, we dont need a budding one. Especially not when he comes with music. (shudder)
What's next? Will the Disco Institute issue a list of gay scientists?
Categorizing all those bands as "gay" bands may be stupid, but Orac calling Wilco "overrated"? That's just crazy talk.
It's a joke.
WOOO, the Velvet Underground. This guy wants to ban some awesome music. Maybe I should ask him what else he hates so I can expand my CD collection.
A little WHOIS work shows that lovegodsway.org, donniedavies.com and eveningservice.com are all very new domain names, all registered through the same company with the actual domain name owner's name concealed. In fact, lovegodsway.org and eveningservice.com were both registered on the same day- Oct. 25, 2006.
A traceroute shows that all three have the same IP and are hosted by brainfood.com, a company which, among other things, does "viral marketing".
It's thoroughly unscientific, but I have a hunch about this:
It's part of a marketing campaign for a movie. The central character of the comedy will be a guy who would be extremely offensive if he weren't so endearingly clueless and clumsy. This time, the character will be a pudgy, trying-desperately-to-be-cool-and-failing wannabe fundy preacher from Texas instead of a trying-to-be-cool-and-failing guy from Kazakhstan.
"Of course, Davies is full of crap; there's a strong genetic component to sexual orientation, and most homosexuals can't just "go straight," even if they want to."
Que? I've heard of this before, but I thought this idea was shot down some time ago. I've always been of the opinion that sexual orientation is no more "genetic" than it is a choice. Sexual orientation and attraction simply 'are.' They aren't chosen or programmed.
Even though orientation and attraction aren't choices, I haven't seen any evidence that they are genetic.
Enlighten me.
Mike White: Interesting point. If it is neither nature nor nurture, then what? Hmmmmmmm, perhaps it was goddidit and gays are in fact the chosen people...
OK by me
Serious question: arent nature/nurture the only two options? Even if 'god did it' is the case wouldnt that be nature? Less serious question: if gays are the chosen people will they be more forgiving and accepting of breeders than the current 'chosen people' are of them? or will they be oppressed under their ultrasuede whips?
How sad. Not one mention of my favorite gay band, Erasure. Heck, they even did an entire album covering ABBA tunes. You don't get much more gay than that.
The third option besides nature and nurture is, of course, a bit of each. ;-)
I actually like Jars of Clay, though. I like Queen more, though. Heck, even Iranian mullahs have gone on record liking Queen!
Heck, even Iranian mullahs have gone on record liking Queen!
No doubt the one they like is Another One Bites the Dust. (a song about ambushing soldiers IIRC...)
;-)
Bring on teh hawt gay muzak!
Mike White said sexual orientation was not a choice, he didn't say it was not "nurture". If a person is gay because his mother ate tofu on her 16 day of pregnancy then went to a David Bowie concert there would be no genetic component and no choice in the matter.
Cyndi Lauper is safe (i.e. not gay)? I think the author of that list might want to read this article. Warning, reading this webpage may make you queer!
http://www.planetout.com/entertainment/interviews/2000/08/lauper.html
No mention of the Scissor Sisters???
Red Hot Chili Peppers probably made the list because years ago one of the guitar magazines showed Flea kissing one of the other members of the band on the lips. It made the cover of the mag.
Mike White: Interesting point. If it is neither nature nor nurture, then what?
He didn't say "nature", he said "genetic". There are non-genetic developmental factors which are still "nature". Genes are not destiny.
For christs sake, its a joke, isnt it ?
Havent you watched the video ?
Yeah, I think it's you guys that have been punked. There's no way this guy is serious.
you've been punk'd. Ted and his loincloth are on the list now.
Heck, even Iranian mullahs have gone on record liking Queen!
No doubt the one they like is Another One Bites the Dust. (a song about ambushing soldiers IIRC...)
Actually, there indeed was a particular song that had Queen become the first rock band authorized in Iran since the revolution, and it wasn't that one. It was "Bohemian Rhapsody", probably in large part because it contains the word "bismallah", which is the first word of the Koran.
Freddy Mercury was of course homosexual, but he doubtless did know this word, being from a Lebanese family. He wasn't Muslim, though. He belonged to a related religion which is slowly dying out: Zoroastrianism. Strange but true.
I also notice he's added Magnetic Fields to the list as well.
I haven't watched the video, but the list implies -- to me -- that it isn't a hoax, simply because hoaxers tend to be more careful than sincere idiots. (If nobody noticed, he repeated "The Indigo Girls"/"Indigo Girls" as well as his repeat of Elton.)
And, of course, he ignored, for the most part, lesbians except for a few prominent examples, when there has been a substantial sub-genre of lesbian music for years. (If you watch "The L Word,' the show may be lousy, but the music is frequently great, including the title by "Betty.") But then most homophobes have problems knowing what to say about lesbians.
C.H.O.P.S stands for CHANGING HOMOSEXUALS into ORDINARY PEOPLE
What does the "S" stand for?
also look at his friends on myspace, they include:
P.O.D. So that's why they are safe.
Jesus Christ
Several Christian rock bands
xxxchurch.com
so now i'm stymied. It seems like it must be farce but with these sort of people i can never tell.
Magnetic Fields got on but not the Scissor Sisters or Dirty Sanchez? And no Fat Bob???
I feel so cheated!
Off Topic: What is it with fundies and weird capitalizing habits? Words or phrases like "gay", "internet age", and "ours" don't need it. It always looks so naive and archaic to me. I know that in some other languages nouns and pronouns get capitalized, but not in English. At least not lately. It's a sure sign of a loony, whatever the reason.
Oh wait. I do see he got the Scissor Sisters, but he still missed Dirty Sanchez. Not to mention Prince, Michael Jackson, 4 non-blondes, and Melissa Etheridge, possibly the biggest dyke ever.
He should really alphabetize that list too.
Two threads over from here, Technicolour Jorn observed that the "Safe Bands" list now includes — I can hardly believe this myself, but I checked and it's true — the Dresden Dolls. Either this guy is abandoning all pretense of seriousness, he's been severely punk'd or he's listening to a different band than I am.
The first orgasm of the morning
is cold and hard as hell.
There won't be any second coming,
as far as I can tell.
"Suckers"? As in, "ha, ha, got you suckers"?
Its funny to see noise artist Merzbow, spelt wrong, of all people on that list. Presumably this is because of the Merzbow album Music For Bondage Performance. However the bondage in question was of women, something which Masami Akita has an interest and involvement in, even having written a book on the subject of Japanese bondage.
Unless things have recently changed, I think both the AP style guide and the MLA guidelines capitalize "Internet." So there would be some rationale to capitalize at least the first word in "Internet age."
I always thought Metallica were a bit "fruity"
I mean Metallica are like a travelling leather bar. Lovely Mo's.
Internet Age could be used as an era, making it a proper noun. Like Cambrian.
It probably says something bad about my psyche that I'm reading his list of gay bands and feeling ticked that some of my favourites were left off. (Libertines, anyone? Did Pete and Carl just not neck enough for him? Manic Street Preachers, with the crossdressing and the androgyny and the All Rock And Roll is Homosexual and the video for Love's Sweet Exile? When your favourite bands are too obscure for even fundie hate sites, you're in bad.)
It probably says something worse that part of me wants to correct him.
Also, with regards to the Dresden Dolls being a 'safe' band, that works except for, uh, the part where Amanda Palmer's openly bisexual and Brian Viglione's been a 'textbook crossdresser since twelve'. And the aforementioned lyrics. Other than THAT, totally safe.
He belonged to a related religion which is slowly dying out: Zoroastrianism.
Islam is less connected to Zoroastrianism than Judaism is. All of the religions from that area owe something to Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest extant religion (in the formal sense of "religion").
Two comments:
This does, now, seem to be a hoax, and one of the better done ones. (Apparently the creator, probably an actor named Joel Oglesby, has been submitting all sorts of comments to various blog adding to the confusion. If you check the reference in the comments on your second post, and read the comments there you'll see what I mean.) The ever-changing 'lists' seem to be deliberate as well, with the 'mistakes' being a way to tip people off -- as well as the lack of a 'tip jar' for people to contribute to "God's work" and the lack of a link to his supposed 'home church.'
It may also be a PR stunt for a movie. People have discovered that the domain name "C.H.O.P.S -- the movie" has been registered, with clues pointing back at least to Dallas.
As for Zoroastrianism, I'd argue that, while all three "Abrahamic" religions have stolen from Zoroastrianism, Christianity is probably the one most highly influenced. The Christian concept of Satan -- and the Muslim -- is far closer to the Zoroastrian than to the Satan of the Old Testament, as is the duality, etc.
Zoroastrianism IS dying out, existing mostly in Gujarat, India and in those coming from there. Interestingly enough, it was used as a background for an episode of the British Police series, WAKING THE DEAD, a 'cold case' type series. The problem with it is its refusal to accept either burial OR cremation, insisting that corpses should be left in the open -- preferably on the sides of mountains --to be disposed of by birds and other animals. This, to say the least, is inconvenient for modern urban societies, though the WAKING THE DEAD episode shows one way in which they have adapted without abandoning this idea.
For those who are curious, you can find some Zoroastrian texts at that compendium of books about all religions, http://www.sacred-texts.com/zor/index.htm (which could use everyone's support; even an atheist like me can find these useful) or at http://www.avesta.org/avesta.html (which includes not only books but grammars of the original languages, a fascinating timeline of the dates of various religions, etc.)
Apparently Donnie Davies has omitted Soft Cell from his list of Teh Dreaded Gay Bandsâ¢. And Marc Almond, the lead singer who eventually embarked upon a solo career. As a guide to What To Keep The Chillun Away From To Preserve Their Eternal Soulsâ¢, it's hardly authoritative. :)
All in all, a brand of weirdness that would be more amusing were it not for the fact that some wingnuts will believe this trash and use it to fuel their own nasty little bigotries. And in some cases, I suspect, masturbation fantasies too.
Ah, the fun that ensues when some people get their wires crossed over religion and sex. :)
This guy Donnie Davies is totally crazy and I hope that NO ONE takes him seriously!! This is 2008 and he is promoting HATE. That is horrible. None of these bands that he mentioned are gay and if they were it would not matter they still have some of the best music ever!! I think that he is in the closet. hahaha