Reaping the benefits of tragedy

Growing up, the make-believe on TV never scared me.

The violence shown in the news -- the police committing felonies and misdemeanors on camera -- scared the piss out of me. What cues did I get from the grownups around? They thought anyone the cops turned on deserved it. They often actually cheered.

We're not a nation of loyal Americans, we're a homeland of good little Germans.

Let's not bring Germany into this, please. Geez.

Look, advertising is a 5 billion dollar a year business (or more) Advertisers know the value of subliminal seduction (I studied this and majored in advertising in college.)

The images we impress upon impressionable young minds are proven to have an effect on these young minds.

My own boys are more aggressive and more numb to violence as a result of all the horrifying images they've been exposed to on a daily basis. Our whole culture is more violent.

Wake up. This is something that has to be looked at, at least. At least keep an open mind. It's a combination of factors, but you can't rule out violent video games, violent TV shows like "24" that show torture, and violent news broadcasts.

Combined with a depressed or mentally disconnected human being, on the edge -- it's fire. Our whole culture is way over the top with its worship of the gun.

"Wake up. This is something that has to be looked at, at least. At least keep an open mind. It's a combination of factors, but you can't rule out violent video games, violent TV shows like "24" that show torture, and violent news broadcasts."

I am awake... and haven't ruled out a small impact of violent video games on someones behavior. But what these people want to do is 1. Make money and 2. Without legitimate evidence eliminate violent video games as a whole.

This is wholly irresponsible and misleading to the public since they either don't present any evidence or present flawed or incomplete evidence to make their point.

There also isn't any evidence that things are more violent in our time than at any other time in the past 2000 years. If anything there are fewer violent crimes globally than ever before. Video games... if they have any effect is extremely small. Psychological literature is definitely still out on the matter.

Eh. Thompson's an ass. In defense of Dr. Phil, though, I didn't get the sense from the exerpt you had that he was singling out video games. He used them as an example, as well as movies of how our society as a whole is being desensitized to violence. And that's hard to argue with.

"And that's hard to argue with"
No it's not ;) I still haven't seen legit (any) stats demonstrating more violent crime due to the 'desensitizing' effect of violent mass-media. Please point me in the right direction - I haven't exactly looked for the evidence.

This is something that has to be looked at, at least.

Actually, if you search Pubmed, you'll find that there's a noteworthy amount of research on this. My preliminary understanding from skimming some of these is that there are observed correlations between exposure to violent media exposure and certain types of aggressive behavior.

But the correlation seems not to imply a clear causation, and in many cases is is mere tautology. Some of the studies use data that make it impossible to distingush: do violent media mold agressive behavior, or are aggressive personality types more drawn to violent media?

Other studies suggest that children exposed to simulated violence are more likely to engage in other types of simulated violence afterward. Such studies raise suspicion that some adults have trouble distinguishing reality from simulation, an ability which is natural for most children over 6.

If ongoing studies reveal evidence of a causal relationship, it will be significant. It doesn't look like that's happening yet. Meanwhile, given that the rise in violent games has coincided with a dramatic drop in crime in America (as seen in the chart above), I'm inclined to just chalk this one up to the millennia-old tradition of older generations fearing and disparaging the entertainment tastes of the younger generations.

"The introduction of a new kind of music must be shunned as imperiling the whole state" -Plato

Lydia, as you develop the skills of rational argument, you may come to realize that when a person disagrees with your anecdote-based assumptions, it does not imply that they are asleep.

"Other studies suggest that children exposed to simulated violence are more likely to engage in other types of simulated violence afterward. Such studies raise suspicion that some adults have trouble distinguishing reality from simulation, an ability which is natural for most children over 6."

There seem to be a bunch of studies suggesting this type of link but none of them extend the time course of effect beyond a few hours or at most days. This is the major limitation of all of these studies and without longitudinal data (or even cross sectional) the conclusions they draw are only slightly better than worthless.

Risk Factors in School Shootings http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0272-7358(99)00055-0

Great review article! Violent video games and media were mentioned but definitely not as a cause.

Number one warning sign? Telling people, repeatedly and in detail, the plan to attack the school. Apparently they are rarely taken seriously.

If you look VERY closely at the literature (on PubMed, google scholar, etc.), you will find a large body of research linking exposure to violent media and immediate aggression. Surprise surprise, of course, there are a) not a lot of longitudinal studies and b) nearly all longitudinal studies show negligible effects of video games.

Every form of mass media has been subjected to intense scrutiny and scapegoated as a source of violence in society. Like the easter bunny, a flat/young earth, and holocaust denial, these claims have very little merit, and an ever-growing mountain of evidence against them.

Also in that thread:

http://pyro.cynonyte.com/gallery/d/557-1/video-games-kill.jpg

I couldn't get the img tag working in the preview, so I just posted the link.

That's despicable. I hate how the media and celebrities glom-on to the tragedy of others. I know "media and celebrities" is a general term and I don't mean everyone in media and all celebrities. But I've seen enough in the past day and a half to make me ill.

Other studies suggest that children exposed to simulated violence are more likely to engage in other types of simulated violence afterward. Such studies raise suspicion that some adults have trouble distinguishing reality from simulation, an ability which is natural for most children over 6.

Steve, I wasn't as clear as I intended here. To clarify, another problem with those studies is that doing something like punching a teddy bear isn't any less a of simulation than the video game played beforehand. Thus it can't be assumed to be a predictor of real world violence, and all that funding for the experiment has merely yielded a tautology: people who engage in simulated violence are likely to engage in simulated violence. It should be obvious that punching a teddy bear is not the moral, legal, or behavioral equivalent of punching a person.

So the ones confusing a simulation for a real world act, in such studies, are those conducting the study rather than the gamers.