A family in Germany who says they have to scream and sing while praying, loud enough that they wake up the entire building, because the volume is necessary in a battle with Satan:
A seven-member family faces eviction from an east Berlin apartment tower after neighbors complained about loud prayer sessions that keep the whole building awake at night, a German newspaper said Thursday.
"I really don't want to disturb the neighbors but the high volume is needed in the battle against the devil," Pierre D., the 42-year-old father of the Christian family, told Bild newspaper. He is fighting an eviction order in court.
Apparenly, the devil is hard of hearing and you have to yell really loudly in order to scare him into going away.
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The Chinese scare off evil spirits with firecrackers. Firecrackers would probably be less unpleasant for this guy's neighbors.
Our local Word of Faith Fellowship does something similar, particularly if a child has been naughty. The whole community circles the poor soul and commence yelling as loud as possible for the demon to be driven out of their body. One child nearly died of suffocation about ten years back.
Forunately they have bought up the whole area around the church for its members, so they don't disturb the neighbors.
Or perhaps God is a little deaf and can't hear over all the noise caused be the Devil.
I would love to hear their biblical justification for this. Especialy as I have been studying prayer a lot recently. Biblicaly speaking there is no requirement for volume. God listens whether one prays silently or aloud. One could argue though, that they are liekly guilty of keeping others from embracing the Christian faith through their antics, which is in fact a sin.
A local radio station (Nine-FM) reported this with Motley Crue's "Shout at the Devil" playing in the background.
Isn't there also a verse where Jesus tells his followers that when you pray it shouldn't be where everyone can hear you (like pharisees on street corners) instead it should be alone behind closed doors? (anyone have the chapter and verse... I think it's Matthew, but I can't be more specific...)
So not only are they possibly turning ppl away, they are also not following the teachings of their Christ. It'd be really helpful if more Christians actually read their Bibles instead of simply thumping them loudly.
Kate,
Here it is:
"And when you pray, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily, I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father in secret." Jesus, Matthew 6:5 - 6:6
I've always liked that verse since few christians actually live up to it, yes they get their rewards here, just about all of them..
Kate,
Matthew 6:6
But you, when you pray, enter into your inner chamber, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Mrs. Fundie quickly glances through the newspaper report and tuts quietly at the insane beliefs of some of her fellow Christians. Then she turns to her little boy who is sitting quietly with pen and paper in hand.
"Now then, son, where was I? Ah, yes, next question. Who was it that tempted Eve to disobey God in the Garden of Eden? And, for extra credit, what was Eve's punishment for her transgression?"
As she watches her son scribble down the answer, Mrs. Fundie has a quiet chuckle to herself while thinking about the screaming family in Germany. Such foolishness would never happen here...
thanks Paul and John! I knew someone would pull it out for me, I'll write that down this time so I don't lose it again.
I know that it's not really possible, but it'd be nice if there was some kind of test that people had to pass before declaring themselves Christian in the media... It's as unrealistic as making people take a reality test before voting, so I'll just keep hoping...
The usual rebuttal for Matthew 6:6 is that it's teaching about having the right attitude when you pray. That is, it's okay to pray in public (and as loud as you want) if you do so in humility. If you can't do that, then go lock youself in a room instead.
Funny how even strict Bible literalists can make it say exactly what they want it to mean.
And there are people out there who say that the USA was founded on Christian beliefs by Christians for Christians. People can say anything at all, that doesn't make them right.
So I think that the only point you have is that some people will read whatever they want into whatever they are given. Does that mean that it's useless for us to cite the source text that specifically and directly shows that they are wrong? Should we let those things slide by without challenge?
If you want to search out bible verses and only remember a few words, http://unbound.biola.edu is an excellent bible search engine. Note that the search only applies to the text of the translation you choose in the first of the four available version fields -- or at least it seems to work that way.
Kate, hmm, a test for Christians. Could be useful when us evil atheists finally decide to round them all up..... (just kidding).
The problem with your test idea is that who or what is a Christian is strictly in the eye of the beholder. If you were to test the sincerity of own their beliefs, I suspect the likes of Tom Delay, Ann Coulter, Ralph Reed, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Benny Hinn, Harry Reid, and Andrew Sullivan would all pass with flying colours, and yet I suspect there are few (sane) people alive who could read that list and honestly agree that they all could be "true Christians".
and that's why it will never really work. It's the same as a "reality" test before voting... though wouldn't it be lovely if we could ascertain whether or not voters knew enough about the issues to make informed decisions?
Pieter B, what a useful tool! I'll bm that one for future reference, thanks.
Paul Merda:
And you know this as an unassailable fact--how?
Of COURSE the Devil's hard of hearing! Look at the MUSIC he listens to!And you KNOW he turns it up to 11... PARTY ON, LUCY!!
The Devil, like Pete Townsend, is nearly deaf due to rock and roll.
Christians generally don't pray to the Devil anyway-- they pray to God.
Their God has no hearing problem. Their God has Caller ID and isn't picking up.
Thanks, Pieter, I didn't have that one!
As for God's hearing, see 1Kings 18. That being said, He is not bound to answer.
Tacitus, as for your list, I have a hard time believing that most are truly Christian, although there are a few, like Suillivan, who are clearly trying. But then, I often doubt my own faith as well.
The usual rebuttal for Matthew 6:6 is that it's teaching about having the right attitude when you pray. That is, it's okay to pray in public (and as loud as you want) if you do so in humility. If you can't do that, then go lock youself in a room instead.
Funny how even strict Bible literalists can make it say exactly what they want it to mean.
My answer to that is that it is not ok to make a spectacal of yourself with prayer. Where the attitude comes into play is simply, why are you praying? Are you praying to talk to God or are you praying to show how devout and self righteous you are?
I think you just proved my point :-)