STACLU Reply on NSA Ruling

Glib Fortuna has written a response to my post on the NSA ruling from Judge Taylor the other day. Predictably, it's full of illogical arguments and inflated rhetoric. He begins with a false dichotomy:

It would be redundant for me to provide my own analysis at this late date, so my focus is on the Left's reaction to the ruling. What I have found perfectly sums up how the different sides of the spectrum view today's world. Both sides believe they are fighting the greatest threat to civilized existence. The difference is, the Bush Administration (like the tactics or not) thinks that "Islamic Fascism" is the greatest threat to America while the Left has chosen Bush as the greatest threat TO ITSELF.

This is standard rhetoric from simpleminded partisans like Glib. There are only two possible sides in this dispute, and the other side is of course defined by the looniest people we claim are in the same category. But this is nonsense on both counts. I certainly do not believe that Bush is a greater threat than radical Islam. I think that radical Islam is the single most dangerous and most reactionary force for a return to the dark ages in the world today. Bush is many things - unprincipled, dishonest, utterly clueless in many situations and with very little respect for our constitutional system - but even his darkest views do not come close to the barbarism of the Islamic totalitarian worldview. But none of that justifies or defends overthrowing the separation of powers or ignoring important constitutional checks and balances, and we must fight attempts to weaken those protections tooth and nail.

The consensus of the Left-os-fear punditry and politicians looks at this as "repudiation of the Bush Administration," not as a well-reasoned legal opinion that vindicates the "Constitutional rights" of the "aggrieved." This ought to shine the light on the true motives of the Left -- bring Bush down at any cost. The reaction was the same in the wake of the Hamdan decision. "We got him!" (Um, not any terrorist, but Bush) Whether or not you agree with the methods used by the Bush administration, looking at both sides, you can't help but to conclude that one side, though POSSIBLY misguided and not batting 1.000, truly considers priority numero uno taking down the greatest threat to civilization today. The other side would say they are trying to do the same thing, only the other side sees Bush as the greatest threat, not Islamofascist mass murder, hence it's most important to sack him. For all the screaming the Left does about Bush "taking his eye off the ball" and ignoring bin Laden after the invasion of Iraq, they seem to have taken their focus off of bin Laden (if they were ever focused on him in the first place) and trained it on Bush.

Another false dichotomy, plus a giant red herring. Like most simpleminded apologists for the Bush administration, Glib wants you to believe that anyone who thinks that Bush has ignored important constitutional provisions just doesn't care about fighting terrorism. Indeed, they often argue that those of us who take the constitution seriously even in a time of crisis are literally on the side of the terrorists. This is beyond absurd, it's downright idiotic.

No one - I repeat, no one - objects to using the full range of law enforcement tools, including wiretaps and surveillance, in combatting the threat we face. The only question is whether we will do so within constitutional limits and in compliance with the safeguards that the founders built into our system. This is a president who has already claimed that unilateral authority to suspend habeas corpus in individual cases without any Congressional suspension of the writ as required in the Constitution. That prompted even Justice Scalia to deliver a scathing smackdown of the administration's clear overreach of its authority.

Though I don't place him in the nut category of the above, I have to include this blogger's analysis of this decision to illustrate how even sane people who may have good reasons to oppose TSP will sell themselves out. Ed Brayton, who runs a pretty interesting site, frequently criticizes STACLU because he believes that the ACLU is a NEAR-spotless paragon of liberty and we are just a bunch of hair-on-fire loons.

I do consider you a bunch of hair on fire loons, mostly because you prove yourself to be on an almost daily basis with your hysterically overblown rhetoric. But I hardly consider the ACLU to be near spotless. I've criticized the ACLU many times on many issues, as any search of my blog will show. I just agreed with this very author only two days ago on an establishment clause case the ACLU should never have accepted in the first place. There is a long, long way between believing that the ACLU is perfect and believing that they're evil and satanic and bent on destroying the nation. And again, it is a testament to your incredibly simplistic thinking that you can only envision those two possibilities and therefore automatically lump anyone who objects to your emotion-laden screeds into the opposite category.

Reacting to the TSP ruling, he demands "legal analysis" from others who may oppose this ruling (although his "legal analysis" consists of dropping in a few normally italicized words he's picked up at Volokh), but jumps in right away (before reading the opinion) to preemptively pillory anyone (he targets STACLU) that may determine this ruling to be the work of a political hack (and as it shakes out, most agree that this is precisely the case), again, before reading the opinion himself.

Actually, I said very little before I read the opinion. I said that Judge Taylor would immediately be branded an "activist judge" by the right, regardless of whether the decision was sound or not. I was right, of course. The phrase "activist judge" is an utterly meaningless catchphrase thrown about by simpleminded twits who don't have a clue what they mean other than "a judge who disagrees with me." I said that she will immediately be branded a terrorist sympathizer, and of course she was. That had nothing at all to do with whether the ruling was good, bad or somewhere in between; the mere fact that she disagreed with them would be enough to start the insults flying. This was hardly a risky prediction; Helen Keller would have seen that coming.

After reading the opinion, realizing that this judge constructed an astoundingly agenda-heavy, sure to be recycled as Cottonelle ruling, he still coos, crows and oozes saying in effect, "so what if it IS comically deficient in legal reasoning, so what if it seems the judge would likely not be able to pick out the First and Fourth Amendments if laid sequentially before her: I love the result!" Hypocrisy at a rolling boil -- in the very post that he accuses others of judging court rulings based solely on the result, he giddily does just that EVEN after admitting how atrocious this one is. The ruling was "creative," "clever" and "fascinating" -- code for "its 'originality' would make Reinhart blush."

A complete and total distortion of what I wrote. I said it was a "fascinating" decision, and it certainly was. I said that her handling of the state secrets privilege was both "creative" and "clever", and indeed it was. I also explained why in considerable detail, all of which Glib ignores completely. But I divided the ruling up into two distinct parts - the justiciability questions (state secrets privilege and standing) and the constitutional questions. My praise was for the former, not the latter. There is nothing the least bit hypocritical about praising one portion of a ruling and panning the other, nor is there anything hypocritical about praising the result while criticizing the reasoning through which that result is reached. And the fact is, my statements were accurate. On the justiciability questions. it is an excellent ruling, well written and compelling. But that only provides the basis for the court's review, allowing the court to address the constitutional questions. And while I staunchly maintain that the NSA program is contrary to both statutory and constitutional law, Judge Taylor didn't do much of a job of providing a compelling analysis for why that is so.

That this judge could not rely on any previously accepted understanding of the law and ignored some vital questions in arriving at this scandalous decision (no Ed, the judge's "creative" conclusions do not signal "end of story") illustrates the elemental weakness of the case against the program. I agree with Ed on one thing. This is not an "activist judge." This is a political activist who happens to wear a robe to work and has a history of abusing the post she's been entrusted to dignify with professionalism and partiality to the law. On these counts, I'll rename her Anna Big Failure.

Ah, there's the immaturity we've come to expect from the STACLU crowd. Perhaps next you can come up with a new acronym for what ACLU stands for. Such arguments are so compelling. Of course, all of this is just conclusionary rhetoric. Glib does not offer a single substantive argument for why the judge's conclusion was wrong or why the program meets constitutional muster. It is merely assumed that anyone who thinks otherwise has a political agenda (of course, STACLU would never have a political bias, would they?). This is partisan rhetoric at its best, impugn the motives without a drop of substantive argument.

Then he makes this bizarre statement:

The ACLU and its allies have not been able to produce one example of someone's "rights" being violated by this, or any other surveillance program, so I agree with Ed Brayton's standing argument.

I don't know what this could possibly mean, unelss he forgot a "don't" somewhere in there. My argument on standing is that it simply should not matter whether any particular person has or hasn't been harmed by the NSA's program. The fact that it is unconstitutional is all that matters, not who has the right to take it to court. I believe Congress should be able to sue for failure to comply with binding statutory law, but the courts for some reason don't allow that. If the administration is violating the constitution, the court's job is to make it stop. That is the primary purpose of the courts, to protect the Constitution against encroachments from the other branches of government.

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Thanks for the response Ed. Long and interesting as usual. You are right, I misunderstood your standing argument completely. My bad.

I stated up front that I wasn't going to provide a detailed take of my own on the ruling because many others have done so already (a few of which I linked to), so you demand the wrong things.

The issue directly relevant to you is this:

1) You have on more than one occasion torched people for complaining about a court ruling ONLY because they didn't agree with the RESULT, regardless of the facts, the reasoning and the law applied in arriving at the decision.

2) You have done just this, only on the flip side in this case. You admit that there are serious problems with this ruling to the point that you are pretty certain (as are most serious people) that it won't stand, yet you STILL support the conclusion why? Because you agree with the RESULT. You admit all of this in your own posts.

Pointing out your inconsistency was my point. The details of your analysis (what you praised, what you criticized) were completely irrelevant and I had no desire to argue with you on that -- we are comparably credentialed to comment on and to analyze court decisions and people of superior qualifications had already weighed in, so I saw no point in that approach and linked to the more worthy analysis in my post.

...and on the subject of "immaturity," I think I've found another bit of pot meet kettle Ed...didn't you point out that my tag "sounds like a cross dresser" on another post??? See, I thought that was pretty funny and chuckled when I caught it this past weekend. Lighten up man and stop accusing others of doing something if you plan to ever do the same. I love well-timed, humorous invective (yes, I know you didn't think my joke about the judge's name was funny), even when I'm the target.

BTW -- did you see the NY Times article on forum-shopping in this case? http://stoptheaclu.com/archives/2006/08/21/the-aclu-and-forum-shopping-…

"I certainly do not believe that Bush is a greater threat than radical Islam."

Ed -- I separated you from those people in my post. The far Left clearly looks at Bush as their number one enemy and I do not include you in that group, as I make clear more than once in my post.

Finally, my comment about your view of the ACLU was tongue in cheek -- I am well-aware that you take the ACLU to task when you think they are in the wrong (I would argue that they are wrong far more than you would admit). Just as when you criticize the ACLU when they are wrong, when the ACLU happens to be right or is not necessarily wrong, I will acknowledge it. Read the post I link to above.

Glib Fortuna wrote:

2) You have done just this, only on the flip side in this case. You admit that there are serious problems with this ruling to the point that you are pretty certain (as are most serious people) that it won't stand, yet you STILL support the conclusion why? Because you agree with the RESULT. You admit all of this in your own posts.

I did no such thing. I stated clearly that I agree with the conclusion but not with some of the reasoning used to get there. The fact that this particular judge didn't do a good job of articulating the reasons why the program is unconstitutional doesn't mean it's not unconstitutional - it just means she didn't do a good job of explaining why it is. There are far better arguments for unconstitutionality (and for violating statutory law as well) than the ones she gave in the ruling. Those arguments have been made in great detail by many legal scholars, and I've made them here on my blog as well. There's nothing the least bit hypocritical about that. We can discuss those reasons if you'd like, but you didn't address them, or any substantive argument on constitutionality for that matter. Where you think you see inconsistency you only really see two accurate statements, that the program IS unconstitutional and that Judge Taylor did not do a good job of explaining why (but she did do an excellent job of disposing of the ridiculous state secrets privilege to avoid judicial review).

As for this argument about forum shopping, this is a dead horse you really need to stop beating. The very article you cite gives several reasons why the 6th circuit was chosen for that case and you have not a shred of evidence to the contrary. More importantly, the ACLU had no control over which judge they would get in the case. Anna Diggs Taylor is not the only judge in the Eastern District of Michigan. In fact, she is one of 20 judges in that district. 9 of those judges were appointed by Republicans, 11 by Democrats. That's about as evenly split as you can get. At the appeals court level, the 6th circuit is considered one of the more conservative districts. 13 of the 22 appellate judges were appointed by Republicans. If they were really forum shopping, they could have found better odds than that.

From Glib Fortuna:

"The far Left clearly looks at Bush as their number one enemy"

The "far left" may view Bush as a bumbling incompetent, as do many others (including a great many conservatives), but it is the "far right" that is in the business of actively looking for enemies, both foreign and -- in the case of STACLU -- domestic. As a paranoid reactionary, you probably cannot appreciate the fact that not every political faction is in the business of looking for adversaries to assail purely for the sake of hysteria-mongering.

By Groundskeeper Willie (not verified) on 21 Aug 2006 #permalink

Just read Glib's little commentary. It is not at all suprising that this case would be brought in southeast Michigan. Do you have any idea how many Arabic-speaking people live there? (hint: more than anywhere else in the U.S.) If the NSA are illegally listening to anyone's telephone calls, they are certainly doing it in southeast Michigan.

With regard to forum-shopping, you are simply mistaken. There was no way to know that Judge Taylor would be assigned the case. More to the point, the 6th Circuit really isn't the ideal forum if the ACLU just wanted to forum shop. As the NYT article makes clear, the 6th was chosen because it has already recently heard arguments in related cases, and thus has a level of expertize that another Circuit might lack.

If the concern were merely to ensure a win up to the Supreme Court level, the ACLU would have chosen San Francisco and the 9th Circuit. The fact that they did not pretty much undercuts the whole forum-shopping argument.

Glib wrote:

Pointing out your inconsistency was my point. The details of your analysis (what you praised, what you criticized) were completely irrelevant and I had no desire to argue with you on that -- we are comparably credentialed to comment on and to analyze court decisions and people of superior qualifications had already weighed in, so I saw no point in that approach and linked to the more worthy analysis in my post.

Excuse me while I belabor the obvious: If you wish to point out someone's "inconsistency," then you have no choice but to prove it by citing and discussing the "details of his analysis," and describing the specific inconsistencies found therein. Where else could you find inconsistencies in an analysis, but in the analysis?

You admit that there are serious problems with this ruling to the point that you are pretty certain (as are most serious people) that it won't stand, yet you STILL support the conclusion why? Because you agree with the RESULT. You admit all of this in your own posts.

And this is bad...why? If you say the Earth is round, I'll agree with you, but if you then say that the roundness of the Earth was proven by the testimony of sprites and fairies whom nobody else sees, I'll still wonder what you've been smoking, and I'll rely on more reliable sources for proof that the Earth is round. What's so "inconsistent" about that?

Note that Glib also throws in an obvious straw man argument when he claims that Ed "states that [Judge Taylor's ruling] should stand because the outcome is the one he happens to prefer" (emphasis mine). Glib has steadfastly refused to admit that he has fabricated this misrepresentation out of whole cloth, instead citing other statements from Ed's original post as some sort of proof. In fact, those statements do not support his claim either.