Bill Nye on science education

Those people really do believe in flu shots. They really do understand that when you find fossil bones of ancient dinosaurs, you are looking at deep time, not just 5000 years. And secondly, and much more importantly, having raised a generation of kids who don't understand science is bad for everyone.

That's an interesting take, but is that the consensus among those who interact with creationists, that it's apparent these people don't really believe what they're arguing against?

"And it's fine if you as an adult want to run around pretending or claiming that you don't believe in evolution, but if we educate a generation of people who don't believe in science, that's a recipe for disaster."

For many years science and Biblical knowledge were not seperated. Many of the founders of modern science were firm believers in religion and did not seperate religion from science. Issac Newton is a prime example. Farad is another.
There are many more.

Bill Nye the Science Lie doesn't know what he is talking about. Evolution is a myth. We as a christian community cannot go around telling our kids that God does not exist and the entire universe and everythin in it is just a chance happening. There is purpose in it all. If you all wish to preach evolution in your so called science classes go for it, but don't get involved in the church's teaching of literal Genesis teachings of creationsim. As a government run organization, private schools have the right to discredit religion and force any subject they wish on students including evolution and gayism. However, if you are a firm believer in your "seperation of church and state" mythology, then please keep the state ordained teachings out of the church. Thank God for home schooled kids and private schools. The fact is this. Governmen run public schools will continue to indoctrinate kids on evolution, gayism, abortion, etc. That's ok. On Sunday morning in churches all across America, we'll just make the correction on those subjects. Kids, bring your homework and biology books to Sunday School. I bring my Answers In Genesis materials. We'll compare the two and let the kids ecide which road to take. Fair enough? Too bad. That's how it's going to be.

Phil Sly, i don't think teaching evolution is the same as saying God doesn't exist. Evolution doesn't say God doesn't exist. I happen to be a believer and find wonder and joy in evolution as well as science in general. Evolution is not a myth. It is has been proven over and over. The problem for most christians is that evolution (if you don't know much about it) seems chaotic and meaningless. But it isn't, nor is it up to Science to figure out the meaning.

And i would also like to say that there are plenty of christians out there (and people of other religions as well) that know evolution is not a myth.

And, in the comment by pstcg, we see every possible problem that must be confronted when it comes to educate people about science.

"Many of the founders of modern science were firm believers in religion and did not seperate religion from science."
Many of the founders of science lived when the only way to receive an education was through the church. A very good argument could be made that they succeeded in their discoveries DESPITE religion, not because of it.

" If you all wish to preach evolution in your so called science classes go for it,..."
That is the point: teach about the world and universe we inhabit and explain the best scientific explanations we have. That is being interfered with.

"...but don't get involved in the church's teaching of literal Genesis teachings of creationsim."
Nobody is trying to stop the teaching of anyone's creation stories (religions beside yours have their own) in church.

"As a government run organization, private schools..." have the right to discredit religion and force any subject they wish on students including evolution and gayism."
??? Government run schools are private? You're off the deep end here.

"...have the right to discredit religion and force any subject they wish on students including evolution and gayism."
Teaching of modern science does not by itself, discredit religion. It does indicate the difference thinking and investigating can make (when people reflect on the acceptance of biblical literalism on faith alone).
Gayism? Pure fiction here - you're using your imagination in a strange way.

"Thank God for home schooled kids and private schools."
No doubt some private schools and home-schoolers do a good job. But, many private schools and charter schools in this part of Michigan are doing horribly on standardized tests, even those not covering science. The students in those schools are getting royally screwed (not to mention the parents who pay the tuition). I get the occasional home-schooled student in my (university) freshman mathematics or statistics courses: more than half are woefully unprepared: they do fine when problems require them to regurgitate formulae and apply methods to things they've seen before: they lag behind most public school students when it comes to having to adapt to problems which are slightly different. Sometimes they can catch up: often they can't. (It's worth noting that I've been told the christian schools in the area have a good reputation for science instruction, with heavy emphasis on evolution.)

"The fact is this. Governmen run public schools will continue to indoctrinate kids on evolution, gayism, abortion, etc."
a) Again with the gayism? You seem to be on the verge of protesting too much. (Governmen?)
b) "indoctrinate" seems to be what you are calling for here:
"Kids, bring your homework and biology books to Sunday School. I bring my Answers In Genesis materials."
c) Answers in Genesis? Referring to this almost makes me think you're simply posting stuff for fun, not because you're serious.

"We'll compare the two and let the kids ecide which road to take."
No, you won't do this: you admitted earlier that you'll "correct the mistakes". That is not the same as letting the kids "ecide" (sic) by themselves.

As long as there are people as uninformed, and set in stone in unfounded beliefs, as pltcg, science educators will continue to fight arguments that should have been tossed out over 100 years ago.

jami said "Phil Sly, i don't think teaching evolution is the same as saying God doesn't exist. Evolution doesn't say God doesn't exist. I happen to be a believer and find wonder and joy in evolution as well as science in general."

I am confused on how evolution and Christianity can co-exist. They are direct opposites. Christ willingly came and died on the cross becuase of what happened in Genesis. Without the literal reading and understanding of Genesis, the rest of the Bible makes no sense. Genesis is the foundational cornerstone of Christianity. Without it, the religion cannot survive becuase it would be putting Christ here without purpose and reason. What happened in Genesis determined the future of all mankind and still does so to this very day. If you do not believe in Genesis, then you might as well not believe the rest of the Bible either.

Evolution has been proven over and over again? When did this take place? I was unaware of such an incident. I think what you proved was ADAPTATION. Cold blooded 100 ton lizards do not turn into warm blooded 32 oz birds over time. One animal turning into a totally different kind of animal over time makes no sense. Take a donkey for example. It is the byproduct of two species of the same animal. That is not evolution. The donkey is still a horselike animal. It's impossible to turn one entire kingdom of animals into an entirely seperate set of animals over time. Yes, DNA changes and animals change. That is called ADAPTATION. However, the core animals stays the same. It is still the same KIND of animal regardless of the changes. Example. A wolf and St. Bernard dog are two different animals. However, they are still a canine. Both of them are the same KIND of animal. It was through ADAPTATION, not evolution, that allowed these changes to take place.

So, over all, yes Christians believe in adaptation, but not evolution. We will continue to teach literal Genesis in our churches. Yes, there are apostate churches that allow gayism, evolution, and other anti-chistian teachings. The book of Reveleation warns about those type of "churches".

Gayism. You call it homosexuality. We call it gayism. The church teaches aginst it as the Bible declares it a sin against God and self. Sodom and Gomorrah were completely obliterated for it.

Don' give me that usual liberal stuff about the Bible putting homosexuals to death either. That was a jewish old testament law, not God's law. If you read it as it is written you would understand the difference.

Nevertheless, churches, particulalry the Southern Baptists will continue to preach and teach creationism, 6000 year old earth, etc. Yes I support Answers In Genesis. I will continue to support them in the future. Every time a liberal messes with them or someone gives them a hard time, I send them money. So do many other people. In reality, it is the left who hate AIG that is actually contributing to its well being since we on the right give them money in repsonse to left wing atacks. Thank you. We appreciate your willingness to keep us on edge and keep us motivated for our causes. Without left wing attacks, we might lose interest.

Phil Sly, I completely agree with you that one cannot both believe in the literal truth of Genesis and also believe in the truth of Evolution. To have a consistent world view, you must conclude that one of these is myth. You've made it clear that you believe that Evolution is the myth. I'm absolutely convinced that Genesis is the myth, along with much of the rest of both the Old Testament and the new Testament.

I think the evidence is quite compelling. Compare the story of Genesis to the creation myths of other cultures. Then compare these stories to our modern understanding of Cosmology. Do it with intellectual honesty, and it becomes clear that Genesis is yet another creation myth, no more convincing than the creation myths of other cultures. But Cosmology has much power to explain what we can see of the universe, and we receive new evidence predicted by Cosmology all the time. We are so fortunate that light travelling billions of years lets us see what the universe was like billions of years ago. Creationists are fond of saying "how can you know, you weren't there." But cosmic microwave background radiation lets us see light that was created 13.7 billion years ago shortly after the big bang. We weren't there, but we can see it anyway.

The only evidence for the truth of the Bible is 1) what the Bible says about itself, and 2) the subjective beliefs of people who want it to be true. Neither of these are in any way reliable methods of verifying the truth about reality. I don't doubt the sincerity of your convictions. But I am absolutely convinced that you are wrong, and I feel sorry that you are trapped in your delusion.

Okay, this "adsense hack" has shown up on a couple blogs: either an automated bit that copies portions of the posts of others OR a person who does the same. the link goes to some turkish site that, I think, has spawned spam before.
(I made this comment on two sites.)

Phil Sly and Adsense: Which Genesis story do you believe is correct? They are mutually contradictory (Adam and Eve created together, before the animals, or Adam, then the animals, followed by Eve from Adam's rib), so you can't believe both. There are many other parts of the bible that must be taken figuratively (e.g. I am the vine, you are the branches) and other parts that are clearly wrong (4-legged grasshoppers and others). How do you know which are to be taken literally and which require interpretation? I would love to know.

Dean, Richard Simons: "Adsense" is a Turkish spambot. It shows up under different names, different IPs, copying a previous comment (thus avoiding content filters) and links to a website to boost its pagerank. I removed the comment.

I really hope Phil is a Poe. There's an almost criminal amount of stupidity in his posts.

Did you notice that Phil Sly is an anagram for Silly Ph....?
What worries me is that he thinks he is making a rational argument. I wonder why he feels so challenged? Oh well, keep taking the pills, son.
The lack of education in the U.S. is, however, much more worrying than the delusions of one individual. I was horrified to learn on another blog, yesterday, that 20% of Americans are geocentrists! Can this be true? And if so, what does this mean for civilization?

Clam: Yep, the 2008 General Social Survey asked:

1044. Now, I would like to ask you a few short questions like
those you might see on a television game show. For each
statement that I read, please tell me if it is true or false. If
you don't know or aren't sure, just tell me so, and we will skip
to the next question. Remember true, false, or don't know. j.
Now, does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around
the Earth?

20.8% of respondents chose the latter option, with 7.2% choosing "don't know." Odds are decent that a bunch of those 20% geocentrists are actually just deeply confused.

Phil Sly wrote: "I am confused on how evolution and Christianity can co-exist."

Tell that to 2 billion Roman Catholic: they are christian, and have no problem with evolution.

Now if you are confused about such a thing, no matter that you can be so deluded. Your mind seems to be swimming in confusion about everything.

This can be cured. The remedy is called education.

Phil Sly is a troll (obviously), who has posted under several names. That's bannable, but he seems to be sufficiently self-refuting and entertaining to commenters that I'll let it ride for now. Don't feed the troll, though, unless you can do it in a way that's entertaining to all involved.

Okay, I may be gullible, but that question in #13 has to be a joke, right Josh?

And if not, is the correct answer true or false?

"Now, does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth?"

The correct answer is false:

The Earth does NOT go around the Sun, NOR does the Sun go around the Earth. They both rotate around the common barycentre.

But somehow this seems to be beyond a general social person, so what did the questioner really think that he was asking?

to Jean-Denis @ 14:

You are correct concerning the OFFICIAL position of the Catholic Church concerning evolution, but it should be noted that many rank-and-file Catholics have yet to hear the news and more readily conform to the creationism of their new-found evangelical buddies who, ironically enough, generally do not consider Catholics to be "real" Christians. The fundagelicals tend to treat Catholics as they do Jews, good enough for a political alliance to bash someone even worse, but headed for the fires come judgement day.

Andre3: Not the best-phrased question, I'll grant. I'm guessing they didn't repeat the first two sentences before each of the science questions, so it may be excusable.

Alan: Yes, but the barycenter is inside the sun, so I think it still makes sense.

Pascale Linneaus. Newton. Pasture. Von Braun Einstien. And on and on and on. They were all Christians. Creationist Christians. Evolution is a theory with faith statments. Bill bye I would love to see you debate mike riddle.

Pascale Linneaus. Newton. Pasture. Von Braun Einstien. And on and on and on. They were all Christians. Creationist Christians. Evolution is a theory with faith statments. Bill bye I would love to see you debate mike riddle.