Haggard Caught in Obvious Lies

This is like a car wreck that you just can't not watch.

I'm also waiting for the revelation that Ted was also a closeted evolutionary biologist. Surely those voice mail recordings will come out in due time...

I was just watching MSNBC's exclusive with the escort. I have to admit I'm being very entertained by all of this. I feel kind of bad about it, but I can't deny that I'm finding all of this quite funny.

Chris - I know how you feel. With Hovind and now this, I feel like I'm going through schadenfreude overload, and at the same time feel somewhat bad for being so gosh darned entertained by all of this!

Keep digging, Ted.

The line that he threw the meth away ranks right up there with Clinton's claim that he didn't inhale.

To be fair to Mr. Haggard (I know, I know), he claimed that a Denver hotel referred him to Mr. Jones for a massage. So according to his story, he didn't answer "an ad". Wonder if he can name the hotel, though?

Also, I didn't think that massages were something that Evangelicals looked on favorably.

And is getting his prostate massaged while snorting meth more than just a massage??

Haggart is burnt toast -- until he resurrects himself in a couple of years as someone who faced Satan and was victorious.

Well, I think the "Haggard using crystal meth evidence" is a lot stronger at this point than the "Haggard shagging a gay prostitute" evidence. And the Evangelicals probably consider the latter to be the greater sin anyway. I hope they find a smoking gun (so to speak) to nail him on the gay thing, I really do.

I have a rhetorical question:

Isn't This the same guy who curled his upper lip at Richard Dawkins and said "Don't be arrogant"? I can't wait to see the YouTube mixed video clips.

I often wonder why theists lie. Especially pious ones. They think they can fool other humans, but who (up there) do they think they are fooling??

I'm pretty sure someone who's "curious" about meth and wants to try it doesn't buy $100 or $200 worth.

BTW, does anyone know what amount is a $100 or $200 meth supply? One "massage session" worth, or enough for a week or two "at home with the family and friends".

Haggard is so disgustingly perky anyway. Imagine what he must be like when he's high on meth.

Well, to be fair, it sounds like he only did get a massage, for certain definitions of "massage". Possibly he wanted to be able to tell himself that he wasn't really having sex...Jimmy Swaggart used a similar rationalization when he had his scandal.

The meth story sounds a little sketchier. How can you "not remember" where you threw away $200 in merchandise? Sheesh, if you want to lie, just say you flushed it down the toilet when you got home!

I suppose you think you can get away with any sort of lie when you spend your days telling people that a book that features talking animals is the source of all truth. I'm sure some of his flock buys it.

Who buys meth "doesn't smoke it" and then buys more? Did he lose it?

I don't buy the claim that the hotel suggested him. Hotels don't suggest gay prostitutes for massages unless it's a very, uh, "special" hotel, the kind that charges by the hour and has butcher paper on the beds. Haggard was doing the mattress mambo with this guy, I'd bet big money on it.

Well OBVIOUSLY, he was only buying the meth to keep it our of a SINNERS hands and remove the demon powder from circulation. Then he took a dollar bill, rolled it up, and vacuumed it up his nose. Whew! Quite a rush! I mean, it's a good thing that some poor sinner will not be tmepted anymore by THIS trail! Halleluja! Praise Jesus that was some good shit!

First he claimed that he didn't even know Mike Jones.
javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2006/11/03/radio.co.mike.jones.kdvr.kdvr','2006/11/10')

Now he says he only got "a massage." He is faithful to his wife... never used METH (for crying out loud)... he just curiously STARTED on METH! and he supposedly threw it away?

I hate to say it, but this is just one lie after another, for the record and on television.

GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!

I am angry, not happy about this, btw. It's almost enough to make an atheist out of ya!

According to Jones, the prostitute, Haggard always met in his (Jones') place. He would have never met him in a hotel.

The line that he threw the meth away ranks right up there with Clinton's claim that he didn't inhale.

That exactly what Jones said. You can watch an interview here:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=24777

I have probably just put myself on some watchlist for Googling the phrase "methamphetamine price". (Doesn't it say something good about me that I didn't know off the top of my head?) Picking a source more or less at random from the first page, I found this from PBS:

One hit of meth is about a quarter of a gram and will cost a user about $25. However, the price of meth is volatile and can get as high as $80 per hit. As with most drugs, the price depends on the drug's purity, the amount and where it is sold. An example: in 2002 the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) reported that a gram of pure meth was as high as $330 in Chicago but only $60 in Seattle. Although the price of meth, when adjusted for inflation, has declined since the early 1980s, it remains relatively high; today, an ounce of meth costs nearly 10 times as much as an ounce of gold.

Call it fifty bucks per gram. According to Erowid's methamphetamine vault, a "common" dose for ingestion is in the 10–30 mg range, going up to 40 mg for smoking. Two hundred dollars works out to. . . oh, wow. . . More than you would need to tell if you like it or not.

Oh yes, here is a direct link to Erowid's methamphetamine dosage page. Know your limit, know your supplier and know thyself. :-/

Sounds like he is really stocking up the drug supply!!!
Wonder how many sermons he gives while "higher than a kite"?

I just watched the MSNBC interview and I must say I found the fellow(the prostitute) to be pretty credible. Unlike the pastor who not only seems to be lying but is making up simply outlandish excuses.

We'll soon be told that George W. never met Haggard, I mean Abramoff, I mean DeLay.

In fact we have official documentation now that he has lied.

In one of the first interviews he denies even knowing Jones (see: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/03/haggard.allegations/index.html and scroll down to the link entitled "Watch Haggard's response to whether he knows gay men in Denver")

But of course the latest news today is that admits he knows him and has in fact spoken to Jones on the phone.

Of course he could just come out and confess everything and have done with it, but that would be a shame because his current strategy of hole-digging is far more entertaining.

And gosh what an unfortunate coincidence for Haggard that the man he chose to have a massage from just happened to be a gay male escort? What bad luck. Interesting though to find a gay escort who happens to have side business of massage (these two enterprises are usually combined...)

That reminds me next time I go for my massage I must remember to ask the masseur what his/her thigh dimensions are...

In an interview Haggard mentioned that he was referred to Jones from one of the hotels he stayed at in Denver (where he apparently does his "writing"). Let's hope some enterprising reporter in Denver digs that out - shouldn't be too hard to find out where he stayed and then find eye witnesses who saw Jones go up to Haggard's room.

What is also fascinating is the stupidity of Haggard to even be talking to the press - he should be hiding behind a lawyer by now.

Next question:
Who in his circle of leaders/friends/church knew something was going on, and when did they know it?

I smell a cover-up. You don't just zone out on that much smack, that often, and no one has a clue. Also, I'll bet there is a trail of prostitutes, park visits, bathhouse visits....

Something definitely rotten in C-Springs.

Of course, besides Focus on the Phallus

I have a rhetorical question:
.
Isn't This the same guy who curled his upper lip at Richard Dawkins and said "Don't be arrogant"? I can't wait to see the YouTube mixed video clips.

In case anyone missed that gem, PZM has a link

Few points I made on another web site regarding HaggardGate:

One, today, "Rev." Ted Haggard admitted that he lied yesterday. He said yesterday that he did not know Mike Jones, today, he admitted that he did know him.

Two, today, Haggard admitted that he purchased and had in his possession methamphetamines. He said that he later discarded it without using it (if you believe that, I have a bridge in the desert for sale), but that is irrelevant. Possession of meth is a felony, not only in Colorado, but also under federal law.

Three, if you listen close to Jones's tapes, you will hear that Haggard (assuming that they were of him--and the voice on the tapes certainly does sound like his) was asking Jones to procure more of the substance under consideration. The recording does not specifically refer to meth, but the clear implication from Haggard's comment today that he in fact did buy meth from Jones, is that on the tapes he was in fact asking Jones to procure meth for him.

We'll soon be told that George W. never met Haggard, I mean Abramoff, I mean DeLay.

Ask and you shall receive:
Haggard case fuels debate over hypocrisy

...
White House spokesman Tony Fratto said Haggard was on the weekly calls between Bush aides and evangelical leaders only "a couple" of times. The minister has visited the White House, but "there've been a lot of people who've come to the White House," Fratto said. He expressed confidence that evangelical voters can distinguish between an individual's problems and the GOP's agenda...

Mustafa, you've made my day!

It's funny how even the most evangelical of evangelicals (those on the Rapture Ready message boards) are getting seriously tired about this affair:
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=282013&page=6

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD MAN! Hey Haggard, just admit it and get off the tube already! What, does he think it won't ALL come out at this point?
Sorry, but that is the biggest crock - he needs to just get it ALL out so the story will peak and go away. By admitting everything piecemeal like this, he is ensuring it will linger well into next week!

Crap, I bet the world would be a better place if more evangelicals had gay sex with their drug dealers.

This whole thing is sounding more and more like a bad Dan Savage column, though! Which I think is completely hilarious. Did anyone else see the illustration last week of the couple having sex while the girl is toking on the bong? Ha! Serendipity. Sort of.

So hey Ted, you go girl!

Who wants to put bets on the wife? I say she stays with him. And that he starts attending one of the creepy AA gay groups. (A-GAY?)

KUSA has a nice wrap-up (Windows Media Video file) of how Haggard has contradicted himself on this since the story broke. Basically, on Wednesday Haggard claimed he didn't even know Mike Jones, and by Friday he'd met him, gotten a massage from him, and bought drugs from him. This guy has dug a pretty deep hole for himself, and it'll be interesting to see how the next few days play out.

Crap, I bet the world would be a better place if more evangelicals had gay sex with their drug dealers.

I figure cash is good enough for mine.....or at least I hope so.

Sorry if this was said before, but

At what point does Haggard claim he's an alcoholic?

It's not easy being Ted folks.

You're away from home for the weekend, you look for a little novelty to replace the same-same and this publicity shitheap falls on you. Who ain't been there among us to cast the first stone? The whole Vegas ad is based on a clearly understood premise. It's supposed to stay on the road, not follow the man 65 miles back home.

I think the real problem with America is not enough rock n' roll. Weird sex, redneck drugs and rock n' roll go together. Sex, drugs and the press are just too Hollywood confidential and creepy. I suppose it's a Gen-X thing.

And being outed like that? Come on now, is that cool being outed over a little kink? It's just disturbingly prudish and political; he wasn't marrying the dude, just having a nut -- that he paid for! -- why isn't it allowed for the Christians among us to get a nut? It's no wonder they're repressed.

---
But those teeth! Damn, those are good looking chompers.

I was just watching MSNBC's exclusive with the escort. I have to admit I'm being very entertained by all of this. I feel kind of bad about it, but I can't deny that I'm finding all of this quite funny.

You're feeling bad about this? Dude, I'm going to throw a fucking party later on. It's a good week to be secular.

Call me morbid but I'm personally hoping that Ted's Colorado neighbor, the even whackier by comparison, Pastor Bob Enyart, may round Haggard up and stone him for his man-on-man "sin"- honest, the link is to Pastor Bob's fantasy theocratic American Criminal Code. I'm sorry but a whoops upside his head might be just what the preacher needs.

Call it fifty bucks per gram. According to Erowid's methamphetamine vault, a "common" dose for ingestion is in the 10-30 mg range, going up to 40 mg for smoking. Two hundred dollars works out to. . . oh, wow. . . More than you would need to tell if you like it or not.

No kidding, and meth is a drug of choice for lower classes, so I'm betting those figures are even on the high end. I'm not sure why anyone who was interested in experimenting with drugs would pick the one that makes your face look like it got sucked in by a vacuum anyways.

Oh my god, Bob Enyart is hilarious. Way back, about 10 or 12 years ago when he had a TV show that was on our local religious channel, I called in to his show a few times. That guy makes Falwell look like John Locke and Richard Feynman put together.

Very, very short recent rundown, list can be easily expanded.......

Priests molesting little boys for many years, the church knows and covers it up.

A religious right wing politician, (and are there more?) grooming and molesting page boys for years, people know and cover it up..

"Moral Majority" religious leader buying meth and male prostitute. (ps, do you really believe this was the first? I'd bet more come out of the woodwork)

OUR christian United States President legalizes
TORTURE.

Yep, thumping that bible sure does lead one to moral superiority!

Priests molesting little boys for many years, the church knows and covers it up.

Well you can pass most of this point off because those perverts are Catholics. Don't you know about Catholics.....

Add another lie: Haggard claimed that he contacted Jones originally through information that he got in a Denver hotel. Jones said [on Olbermann] that he never advertises through hotel concierges, only in gay newspapers.

And Haggard admits that it was his voice on the answering service.

I have no sympathy for Haggard, but I have to admit that I have some for his congregation. These weren't authority and discipline freaks like Dobson's crew, or the LeHaye crowd, exulting as Jesus walks through the crowd and people explode. Yes, sure they have bad ideas that lead them to do bad things, but I don't feel they were necessarily bad people, or stupid, just misled. They really believed in this man and the God he preached to them, and the ideas he claimed were God's. (And they weren't, for the most part the sort of stupid and gullible ones that fell for a transparent fraud like Jim Bakker. Maybe they were simplistic overwhelmed escapists longing for an Ozzie and Harriet "Good Ol' Days." Certainly I can fight and hate some of those ideas, and still respect them.)
And now they're like a cartoon character running off a cliff and looking down. More seriously, they must be feeling something akin to a mild case of PTSD. I can't help, as I started this, feeling a little sorry for them.

HOLD THE PHONE! Did you catch the video of Haggard being totally condescending to Richard Dawkins about evolution? It's classic! You'll love it.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/11/03/scientist-richard-dawkins-ques…

.....HOLD THE PHONE! Did you catch the video of Haggard being totally condescending to Richard Dawkins about evolution?

Yes. And don't miss the bit where he goes into the front row and rubs noses with a seriously thrilled young man*.

*It's not the obvious gayness of the scene. It's the blatant hypocrisy of the man.

Maybe his reaction to Dawkins was due to having the hots for Richard!

I would sincerely like to thank Ted Haggard for taking the spotlight off of John Kerry.

I am going to give Haggard the benefit of the doubt and say he did NOT have sex with the prostitute. I'd bet money he just layed there and closed his eyes while he got a BJ/hand job so he could open his eyes and pretend it was just an exotic "massage."

But then again it could be plastic bags over the head/nipple clips kinky and I wouldn't be surprised too...I just find the prior scenario more likely.

Maybe his reaction to Dawkins was due to having the hots for Richard!

Dude, you might be on to something there. I'm not kidding!

http://tinyurl.com/yf2ght
(http://www.crooksandliars.com)

Reverend Jerry Falwell appeared on the Situation Room last night to talk about the midterm elections and the evangelical vote. When Paula Zahn asked him about the allegations surrounding Ted Haggard , Falwell said "I don't know him..." and played down his influence in the evangelical movement as negligible.

http://tinyurl.com/yf2ght
(http://www.crooksandliars.com)

Reverend Jerry Falwell appeared on the Situation Room last night to talk about the midterm elections and the evangelical vote. When Paula Zahn asked him about the allegations surrounding Ted Haggard , Falwell said "I don't know him..." and played down his influence in the evangelical movement as negligible.

One of the most remarkable things about this scandal and the Foley affair, to my mind, is that there's been very little blaming of gays in general, except by the lunatic fringe of the far right (and because they're so deeply implicated here, no one believes them).

Everyone else seems to agree: The closet is the problem, not the orientation. This is something that openly gay people have known for years, and it's gratifying to see how everyone else now knows it too.

Reverend Haggard is a vociferous spokesperson against gay marriage and , Until recently , his wife probably had no idea she was actually in one.

Another possible case: Mgr Tony Anatrella, prominent Catholic psychoanalyst, has supposedly been recently charged by the Paris "Brigade des mineurs" with sexually abusing a boy: Tony Anatrella, le psy de l'Ãglise, suspecté d'abus sexuels sur de jeunes hommes. Oddly, I haven't been able to find any official news of this, only on gay and Catholic sites. But if it's true, what a comedown! Here's what Anatrella has had to say about homosexuality in the past.

Excuse me, on reading the article more closely, I find that the "Brigade des mineurs" has not charged Anatrella with anything; only that a complaint has been filed, and an investigation has been opened. Also, it's vague about how old the complainant was when involved with Anatrella, unclear whether he was underage. However, there is also testimony from a 23-year-old man that he had a sexual relationship with Anatrella while seeing him for psychoanalysis.

I did not have sexual relations with that male prostitute...

I just bought meth from him and had him rub his big, strong hands on my sweaty, clammy body... And there was no other way for him to massage my butt cheeks, prostate and rectum... I'm innocent!

It is now official. Haggard has been removed as pastor of the New Life Church. According to the overseers:

"In consultation with leading evangelicals and experts familiar with the type of behavior Pastor Haggard has demonstrated, we have decided that the most positive and productive direction for our church is his dismissal and removal. In addition, the Overseers will continue to explore the depth of Pastor Haggard's offense so that a plan of healing and restoration can begin."

For the whole quote:
http://www.coloradoconfidential.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=945
(hat tip to Crooks and Liars)