Bleaching away what ails you: Miracle Mineral Solution and Jim Humble's Genesis II Church

It’s time to get this video clip out again:

Yes, just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. But who are “they”? I’m referring to the cult that thinks that bleach enemas (and also ingested bleach) will cure children of autism. I was reminded of that cult when ABC News 20/20 aired a special on Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS), the aforementioned bleach miracle cure. It’s the sort of story that we need to see more of, the result of what was reported to be a year-long investigation of Rev. Jim Humble and his church, the inventor and primary promoter of MMS as a cure for autism and just about everything else.

Before I get to the story, let’s recap. MMS is bleach. Specifically, it is a 28% sodium chlorite in distilled water that generates chlorine dioxide when diluted with citric acid-containing or other acid-containing foods, as instructed. This is a chemical used for water purification that a quack named Jim Humble has touted as a miracle cure for just about everything from cancer to AIDS to a wide variety of conditions, serious and not-so-serious. There is no currently known valid medical reason to administer this chemical to anyone to treat anything, much less cancer, autism, AIDS, or other medical conditions. None of this is (or should be) in serious dispute from a strictly scientific, medical, or ethical standpoint.

The next fact that is not in serious dispute is that a woman named Kerri Rivera, operating out of a quack clinic in Mexico, has been touting MMS as a “biomedical” treatment for autism. Although she appears to have gotten out of the MMS business ever since having had to agree to sign an Assurance of Voluntary Compliance with the state of Illinois, which means that she agreed to stop promoting and selling chlorine dioxide bleach as a treatment for autism, she was the main person who popularized the treatment in the “autism biomed” community. As part of the treatment, she advocated feeding MMS to autistic children every two hours over the course of 72 hours (her “72-2 protocol”) and giving children MMS enemas three times a week, basically to “bleach the autism away.” She admitted that the side effects included at minimum diarrhea and fever. In fact, she has said that the diarrhea is a good thing if it’s “detox diarrhea” and that the fever means the immune system is being stimulated, thus making it a good thing as well. What is also not in dispute is that Rivera brought this message of bleaching autism away to the yearly autism biomed quackfest known as Autism One multiple times, making even some die-hard supporters of autism quackery cringe. Again, there is currently no known valid medical reason to give this chemical to any autistic child to treat autism. Again, none of this is (or should be) in serious dispute from a scientific standpoint.

So it was that I learned of a joint investigation between ABC’s 20-20 and the southern California affiliate ABC7 looking at MMS, Jim Humble, and Kerri Rivera. Here’s part 1 of the 20/20 report:

ABC Breaking News | Latest News Videos

It’s a shocking report. The level of lies coming from Jim Humble is truly amazing, as is his shamelessness in claiming to be able to cure breast cancer, prostate cancer, brain cancer, and autism, describing MMS as a “sacrament.” Steve Novella makes an appearance, and Jim Humble’s reaction to being challenged is quite telling. I must admit that I particularly liked the part where they poured MMS on a pair of blue jeans to demonstrate what a strong bleach it is. One particularly horrific part comes near the end of the first segment, where Humble's "archbishop" Mark Grenon is shown in his studio saying that if you get breast cancer, you brought it on, and that women should rely on MMS, not mammograms, surgery, and chemotherapy.

One woman, Sylvia Nash, died after taking MMS as a preventative measure for malaria. Her widower Doug gives a harrowing account of how his wife died in his arms after taking MMS. It’s not clear from the autopsy that MMS actually caused her death, but one really has to wonder, given the temporal proximity of her death to her having taken MMS. Correlation doesn’t always equal causation, but it’s very suspicious, it’s initially plausible that MMS caused Nash’s death, as you can see if you examine more details in the ABC7 report:

On the other hand, his wife only took two drops, which shouldn’t have been a highly toxic dose for an adult. So it’s still unclear whether MMS is what killed Sylvia Nash.

The next segment shows ABC News tracking down Jim Humble in his Mexican redoubt:

ABC Breaking News | Latest News Videos

One thing I never realized before is just how whacky Humble is. He claims to have come from another galaxy, for one thing. When cornered by a reporter, Humble remained cool, calm, and collected, denying that MMS could be harmful and standing by claims that it is good for children and women with breast cancer. Tellingly, when asked for evidence, he was unable to produce any.

One good thing that happened last year on the MMS front is that a major distributor of MMS and believer in Jim Humble’s Genesis II Church, Louis Daniel Smith, was convicted of selling MMS as a drug and sentenced to four years in prison. Unfortunately, Smith was part of a huge network of at least 1,700 selling MMR around the world; so stopping him hardly puts a dent in MMS distribution. After all, there are many others like this:

And the occasional celebrity testimonial, like this one by Lindsay Wagner, who starred as The Bionic Woman:

Her claim:

But none of that 70s TV magic prepared Wagner for an ailment she would suffer in real life - a case of chronic Urticaria, which is severe, disabling hives.

"All over my body, like welts, like big welts. I looked like a boxer, my eyes were all swollen," she said.

Steroids and antihistamines helped, but they had side effects and weren't a permanent solution. So after eight months of suffering, Wagner was desperate for a cure.

"It would burn. It would itch like crazy. It's something that could just make you go insane," she said.

Through a friend, Wagner was put in touch with a woman whose child seemed to be nearly cured of severe autism by something called Miracle Mineral Solution, or MMS, that was purported to work for a variety of ailments, including chronic hives.


"I was dumbfounded. Within a week, I was off the Prednisone. Within one week, I was just shocked," she said.

She said within weeks the hives disappeared and never came back.

"I'm not a doctor. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a chemist. But it just seemed like this had actually cured whatever I was reacting to," she said.

Chronic urticaria is a skin condition with a wide variety of presentations tied to a large number of causes. It’s often very hard to treat, but its natural course is to wax and wane, to become quiescent for a while and to recur. In other words, it’s a perfect condition to give the illusion of effectiveness to a quack remedy., and it’s incredibly unlikely that MMS cured Wagner’s urticaria. That’s why I wish ABC7 had resisted the temptation to include this segment. It adds nothing to the story, but it’s a credulous treatment of MMS that taints an otherwise very good report.

Unfortunately, as long as Humble stays in Mexico, there isn’t much that US authorities can do to investigate or extradite him. His archbishop, Mark Grenon, continues to sell MMS in the US, claiming immunity due to his being an archbishop and Genesis II being a church. Grenon isn’t quite as smooth as Humble. Basically, when confronted by the 20/20 team, he started ranting, swearing, and asking if ABC is owned by the Rothschilds. It’s simultaneously hilarious and disturbing at the same time to watch.

One thing that disappointed me about the 20/20 segment was that there was very little about autism and virtually nothing about Kerri Rivera. Fortunately, ABC7 takes up that slack:

Particularly balmy is this claim:

"Will it cure autism?" Wedeen asked.

"Well, we've seen 234 people lose their autism diagnosis with the protocol," Rivera told Wedeen.

"I guess I'm just scared of the side effects? But if there aren't any?" Wedeen said.

"There are no side effects. It doesn't have any. Within an hour it's out of the body," Rivera responded.

Rivera insisted the potion was safe because it's chemically different from bleach. She also claimed it's most effective when doses are timed to cycles of the moon.

"Yeah, full moon because the parasites go into the gut during the full moon and the new moon and they mate," Rivera told Wedeen.

"Really?" Wedeen asked.

"And so you can get a lot of kills. You can kill a lot of parasites during the moon cycles," Rivera stated.

I’ve examined photos of the “parasites” parents using MMS have claimed to have removed from their children’s intestines through the use of MMS enemas before. They’re generally disgusting ropy-looking strands with mucus attached. Basically, anyone with a modicum of knowledge about parasites and gastroenterology will recognized that these are not actually parasites, but rather mucus mixed with fragments of colon mucosa (the innermost lining of the colon). It’s definitely not worms or parasites, and the claim that the parasites go into the child on the full moon to mate is about as daft a claim as I’ve ever heard. Four years after having learned of MMS and Kerri Rivera, I still have time accepting that anyone could believe such nonsense, but believe it they do.

One of the best disinfectants for quackery like MMS is to shine the light of publicity and skepticism on it. Kudos to ABC and ABC7 for doing just that.


More like this

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The clip above says it all with respect to "miracle mineral solution" (a.k.a. MMS). Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in. And, as Yoda would probably put it, back in I am one more time. (How's that for mixing movie allusions?) Let's recap. MMS is bleach. Specifically, it is a 28%…
It's been a while since I've written about MMS. You remember MMS, don't you? It's an abbreviation for "miracle mineral solution," a solution first promoted by a man who is inaptly named Jim Humble. Basically, as I've described in multiple blog posts, MMS is bleach, specifically chlorine dioxide (…
A couple of weeks ago, I was horrified to learn of a new "biomed" treatment that has been apparently gaining popularity in autism circles. Actually, it's not just autism circles in which this treatment is being promoted. Before the "autism biomed" movement discovered it, this particular variety of…

What about removing coffee stains?

By Daniel Corcos (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

It is good that there has been an investigative report on MMS. Humble comes out of it looking like the charlatan that he is. But this doesn't seem to matter to the true believers, who just make excuses. It must be a strange mindset that allows you to do that and explains why these charlatans can continue in business.

Personally, I liked Mark Grenon. What a maroon.

By Chris Preston (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

Now if only CPS would start coming down on parents that use this crap on their children. Religious mumbo-jumbo or not, abuse is abuse.

By Anonymous Pseudonym (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

It's one thing for adults to take MMS, but the idea of feeding a child bleach is beyond the pale in so many ways.

I helped out with the "20/20" and ABC7 reports as part of my anti-MMS group of autistics, same as I did with the CBC "fifth estate" investigation back in March. It was me who put MMS to Brian Ross' attention more than a year ago, through Lisa Bartley in Los Angeles. Some comments.

1.) I think the reason autism gets little mention in the "20/20" segment is behind-the-scenes drama. Simply put, the priorities of the ABC team (getting an exclusive story) clashed my group's priorities (confronting the church through the press wherever and whenever they planned a seminar), thus we were cut out of the loop early on. But we still had a good relationship with ABC7, resulting in the story on Rivera.
2.) "ABC7" being KABC in Los Angeles, not KGO in San Francisco.
3.) Mark Grenon made the gross comments about women being to blame for breast cancer, not Humble.

By Sebastian Jackson (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

I enjoyed the 20/20 segment, while being disappointed at its shallow, superficial approach (complete with '70s-style ambush interviewing). Too bad they didn't confront those who while not directly involved with selling this scam, facilitate it. Like J.B. Handley:

"In the last few years, an entirely new theory has developed about what’s causing the behaviors and symptoms we call Autism: parasites. It’s a novel theory, spearheaded by three very innovative people: Kerri Rivera, Andreas Kalcker, and Jim Humble. (Parents like Robin Goffe have further added to the protocols.) As a ten-year veteran of biomed, I’m skeptical to any and all new ideas, and was extremely skeptical of the claims being made by these revolutionary parents and practitioners."

"I hope all parents will take a closer look at the Parasite-Autism theory and see if their child may fit the profile of a child suffering from parasitic infection. What’s most shocking about this new treatment approach are the claims being made by parents. At last count, 163 parents claim their children have recovered from Autism by following Kerri Rivera’s protocol. One hundred and sixty-three kids? I don’t know about you, but that sounds like a lot of kids, particularly for something that’s supposed to be impossible to do! And, as if we need to ask, how many people from the CDC, AAP, or Autism Speaks have looked into the parasite-autism theory or interviewed the parents of the 163 children they claim are recovered? You know the answer."

"Who’s afraid of Autism recovery?"

"Mainstream Autism organization who have accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in donations and spent it all on genetic causation research."

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

Excellent work, Sebastian!
This crap *really* needs to stop.

Still, a few drops of MMS should turn my sheets back into white sheets again. Currently, they have blue areas, due to my wife's chromhidrosis.
Note to self, pick up some antibacterial soap. Well, that is one effective "treatment", as it's a reaction between body waste products in perspiration and bacteria colonizing the skin.
But, do note the more appropriate usage of MMS, as a bleach for clothing, even if MMS would be very serious overkill (as in, dissolving sheets if insufficiently diluted).

Now, off to ponder Monopoly, well, a part of it, as applicable to these monsters. "Go to Jail, go directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200".

His archbishop, Mark Grenon, continues to sell MMS in the US, claiming immunity due to his being an archbishop and Genesis II being a church.

That won't necessarily protect him if suitably minded federal agents get on his case about selling MMS to people who aren't members of his church. The precedent is the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church, which claimed that marijuana was a sacrament, but which turned out to be a front for a marijuana smuggling operation. (The linked article is a story from 1981, written shortly after the smuggling operation was busted; the author is the same Carl Hiaasen who went on to be a best-selling novelist, so you can see how he gets some of his plot ideas.) The "religious freedom" claims simply mean that the authorities have to be that much more careful about making their case, but there is likely a case to be made here.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@Daniel Corcos (#1) "What about removing coffee stains?"

I immediately started thinking of the cross-marketing potential if Genesis II teamed up with the fine folks at the Gerson Institute.

By ScienceMonkey (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

Where's The Food Babe when you need her? [I wonder how many MMS users avoid 'chemicals' in their food...]

I'm sure MMS reverses the evil effects of fluoridated water. It's not regular bleach. It's Holy sacramental bleach. Blessed by the God of Andromeda. (Strain in credibility there. Humble? I think not!)

I'm waiting for Gilbert to crack a joke that Hillary Clinton will now claim she bleached her email server so it won't get autism.


Ha ha, on wiki, food babe title "known for" pseudoscience. When wiki calls you out, there is no escape

Hillary neglected her dirty, sticky v-box. Unloved, a lackey felt sorry for it and scrubbed it out with pinecones and donkey fat -- But it was too late for the savvy little server; It started babbling, complaining about being chocked with Dust-Off and the lipophilic flesh of an animal. A second lackey shut it up with digital BleachBit; Now it's got soulless ports, like a doll's ports.

Hillary didn't see that the server got the slightest standard of care nor even miss the poor thing after it had been lobotimized. Indeed, she feigned ignorance of the fate of her ward:

So there is a use for the Food Babe!

On the autism front, most people interested in the area may have already seen this but it is a nice change from the totally wacky.

/The results are the first to show long-term symptom reduction after a randomised controlled trial of early intervention in autism spectrum disorder.

I've only read the abstract but it looks a bit promising.…

By jrkrideau (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@ Sadmar

Blessed by the God of Andromeda. (Strain in credibility there.

Were you trying to pass a subliminal message that MMS would cure victims of the Andromeda strain?

By Helianthus (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@ Science Monkey:

Although you are most likely a very wicked person to say that, I find that we think alike.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@ sadmar:

Or else make various lesbian-bashing asides about HRC and Huma.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@ MarkN:

I'm pleased to announce - as I have elsewhere- that Food Babe's numbers on Alex have declined since this time last year.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

that is ON ALEXA

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

Humble comes out of it looking like the charlatan that he is. But this doesn’t seem to matter to the true believers, who just make excuses

The obvious fraudulence of the MMS industry just results in Alt-Med scammers using it as a shibboleth -- they pay homage to MMS as a sign of sincerity, and to demonstrate their independence from the Pharma / Big-Med / Rationality complex. Credo quia absurdum!!

So here's the proprietor of an "organic health food" shop in Bournemouth ('Earth Foods'), pimping the whole broad spectrum of lies and frauds and grifts:

The ingredients for the mixture were alcohol from wood,made by themselves,pine resin, eucalyptus resin and 70% OF PURE CANNABIS oil made from the same family seeds for over 1,000 years. Do Not take the modern day skunk ,stay off sugars, apart from Agave, Xylitol and stevia ,use Organic foods ,stay off meats ,and do not to eat much cheese and use Hemp Oil and or Linseed oil. Check out (Prof Dr Burszynsky .com and the Budwig, Alkalize for,Mr Bean Videos ) also Prof Linus Pauling a vitamin Guru ,and his top Student, Dr Mathuis Rath. They have both been out spoken regarding the truths learned about anticancer, longevity of life, using nature's medicines, also using pure minerals that are negatively charged and are made from the Eucalyptus tree millions of years ago. Over 70 minerals in liquid solution, mineral salts and over 95 negatively charged minerals were made about 260 million years ago. Open cell ‘Phytomarine Plankton Spirulina’ contains virtually everything a human needs to survive, including R N A < D N A the Double Helix (I am pretty sure if Darwin new about Spirulina he may have suggested that we may have a connection with this ‘Super-Duper’ food). Have a mixture of spirulina and linseed oil, mix with pink salt, use it on any organic food add it in blender with broccoli carrots avocado some hemp milk, or almond or quinoa milks and just blend. Use plenty of vit C, L-Lysine, L- Proline, Silica, vit D, vit k, Curcumin Longa, Green teas , Resveratrol, selenium and B17 which has negatively charged hydrogen cyanide locked into it, also known has Amagdelen. Personally I have taken between 30 and 50 bitter Apricot kernels per day for over 30 yrs. Check out Dr Contreras at the Charity of Hope Hospital in Tijuana Mexico. Eat only Organic Veggies,some exercise according to age,Cellfood (made from Deuterium Sulphate and lignite), M.S.M and MMS and so many other natural products, it may be possible you can live with most Cancers. Chemo, Radiation and Sugar can spreads tumours

I first looked up 'Earth Foods' after they were caught importing GcMAF through Bulgaria and peddling it as a cancer cure; I stayed to find out more about his "CellFood" deuterium sulphate (i.e. sulphuric acid made with Heavy Water).

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

J.B. Handley:
“[...] As a ten-year veteran of biomed, I’m skeptical to any and all new ideas, and was extremely skeptical of the claims being made by these revolutionary parents and practitioners.”

This has been another episode of "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means".

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

they pay homage to MMS as a sign of sincerity, and to demonstrate their independence from the Pharma / Big-Med / Rationality complex

Mustn't forget Klaus Ross, the German cancer conman with the impressive trail of bodies. Although his idiosyncratic approach to administering bromopyruvate was his main drawcard, he wasn't going to turn down other income streams:

1. Het remmen van het niet-fysiologische metabolisme van de kankercellen
3-BP Glucose Blocker

2. Kankercel metabolisme herstructureringstheraphie
Enzym Therapie (Horvi)
Hoge dosis vitamine C
Glutathion zuur
Alfa- liponzuur
Medicinale paddenstoelen
B17 (Amygdaline)

3. Immuun Theraphie
NK Cells
Mistletoe Therapy
Organo peptide (o.a. thymus, lever, milt - faktor AF-2)
Allopathische behandeling (door dokter Guenther Enderlein – Sanum therapie)
Colostrum therapie
Vaccins tegen kanker

4. Pijnbestrijding
Vitamine B

5. Anastasistheraphie

6. Bio-resonantie en Bio-feedback

7. Zuurstof therapie, H202, Ozon, Vitamine B15

8. Cranio-sacrale therapie

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

@ Helianthus

No, I was hinting MMS is</i. the Andromeda Strain. Humble is an shape-shifting alien trying to infect the people of Earth with space bugs in preparation for the takeover by his reptilian race. Not only should Food Babe be fighting him, but every true Christian must reject this false 'god', who is surely a demon sent to plague man by Satan himself. (By which I mean Humble buys his bleach wholesale from Monsanto*.)
* New NYT business-page report on GMO's: safe to eat, but don't increase yields OR reduce the use of pesticides. Just more profits for the agribiz octocpus.

That NYT report was debunked on Illumination yesterday.
Yield is indeed increased, by virtue of the crop surviving. Pesticide usage varies, depending upon how one redefines pesticides creatively.

As for the Andromeda Strain, that's easily enough avoided by using barrier contraception. Ya hear me, Jim Kirk?!

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

In reply to by sadmar (not verified)

May be if we start playing Slim Whitman again these aliens will explode also.

OT WUWT reports that Donna Laframboise has a report out on peer-review fraud written for Global Warming Policy Foundation.

It should make interesting reading.

I never read her earlier book as it would have meant spending money and I was not about to encourage her.

By jrkrideau (not verified) on 31 Oct 2016 #permalink

Good Herr Doktor @19

I think I can feel a report to Dorset Trading Standards coming on...

But I need to steel myself for a thorough wade through that ocean of bovine excrement first.

Oh, FFS!

I read more at HDB's link @ 19... is pretty much a primer on alt med cancer woo, and note a version of the Quack Miranda at the bottom - "Disclaimer: All material on this web page is provided for information only and may not be construed as medical advice or instruction. No action or inaction should be taken based solely on the contents of this email alert; instead, readers should consult their family doctor and other qualified health professionals on any matter relating to their health and well-being. The information and opinions provided on this web page are believed to be accurate and sound, based on the best judgment available to the author. Readers who fail to consult with appropriate health authorities assume the risk of any injuries. The publisher is not responsible for errors or omissions."

Dorset Trading Standards here I come!

@ Herr Doktor Bimler #19
Where do those Mr. Bean videos fit in?

Dorset Trading Standards here I come!</i

Good luck!

'Earth Foods' were in the news earlier when a BBC journalist found them trying to steer cancer patients away from therapy and in the direction of more lucrative scams.…

The shop reckons that (A) the shop assistant had gone rogue and does not represent Earth Foods' own position; and (B) Carl Hardman (owner and scammer whose blog compilation of lies and fantasies we are citing) has retired so the Earth-Foods website doesn't represent Earth Foods' position either.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Marxist tools are running scared. What's wrong, docs, profits running dry? I bought MMS in 2009 for a nagging cough. I took ONE DROP - the recommended dosage - with 5 drops of lemon juice plus 4 ounces of water and the nagging cough left immediately. Since then I've used it to treat countless sore throats, all gone in roughly 30 minutes. That's a complete guess because I used to wake up in the morning with sore throats, take the MMS, then fall back asleep. So it could be faster than 30 minutes, could be a couple hours. But MMS kicked the infections 100% of the time. I used it for a friend of mine who had flu like symptoms. She was near 100% better in 3 hours. Oh and the doctor that discovered MMS has treated tens of thousands of malaria patients in Africa. I'll keep my MMS, you can keep yer nasty vaccines, drugs, chemicals, and Obamacare.

Well, enjoy your cancer. That's essentially guaranteed when one incessantly takes strong oxidizers, which were never intended for enteric usage in humans.

"Oh and the doctor that discovered MMS has treated tens of thousands of malaria patients in Africa."

Oh, he's utterly cured an entire continent of malaria, yet magically stayed off of the news. How wonderful!
Here, let me reach into the cat box, ah! Here's a cookie.

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by Chris (not verified)

Since then I’ve used it to treat countless sore throats,

So the relief isn't very long lasting?

gaist@33: Or maybe it's the 4oz of water that are fixing the sore throat? I know that sometimes I wake up with a sore throat because I slept with my mouth open all night and my throat dried out. A glass of water usually gets me back to feeling fine!

But no, it's totally drinking bleach that instantly cures an infection. smh

By JustaTech (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Oh and the doctor that discovered MMS

You lose.

has treated tens of thousands of malaria patients in Africa.


I don't doubt that drinking even a dilute bleach solution leads to countless sore throats.

I love the quaint delusion alties have that MMS, hydrogen peroxide, apple cider vinegar or any of their myriad SuperCures are threatening to put the medical profession out of business. Those who rely on these nostrums for serious problems will wind up in physician offices (or ERs) eventually, often with bigger and more lucrative problems to fix. It's just a shame that their delusions get inflicted on their children.

I'm sort of puzzled though that docs are Marxists, yet simultaneously worried about their profits. ?????

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Well, on a plus side, MMS is useful for disinfecting large amounts of water. Might get some and titrate it for the pool.
H2O2 is a useful disinfectant and bleach in its own right, I keep some dilute H2O2 on hand as a disinfectant.
Apple cider vinegar is something I also keep on hand, along with malt vinegar - for cooking. :)

Yeah, I didn't get that Marxist nonsense and the capitalistic notion of profit, together it's an oxymoron, akin to military and intelligence.

It's a shame that they insist upon using a valuable tool incorrectly, for the incorrect purpose. Even money, these fine folks likely utilize a sledgehammer to install a wood screw into the wall to hang a picture, with equally predictable results.

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by Dangerous Bacon (not verified)

So the relief isn’t very long lasting?

This Chris might also want to find out why he or she has, ah, some sort of immmune problem:

But MMS kicked the [countless] infections [causing sore throats] 100% of the time.

This Chris might also want to find out why he or she has, ah, some sort of immmune problem:

Oxidative stress of the immune system and capillary damage, perhaps? That, plus mucosal damage, as those protective tissues keep infections at bay by entrapping pathogens.

I suspect that Chris is in an unintended race with me toward Barrett's esophagus. In my case, due to longstanding GERD. While the proton pump inhibitors are doing their job, enzymes still are produced and do their job quite effectively.
But, there is one key difference if that comes to be. In my case, I don't have a powerful oxidizer being swallowed, to cause genetic damage to the goblet cells. Chris would.
So, I'll stay at a 10% elevated chance of cancer, Chris will have a substantially greater probability of cancer.

A probability that likely, even our intrepid host wouldn't be able to calculate, due to the rather random and uncontrolled exposures.

Perhaps, I should go to the cat box and get Chris another cookie...

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by Narad (not verified)

Chris: "I’ll keep my MMS, you can keep yer nasty vaccines, drugs, chemicals, and Obamacare."

MMS is a chemical, specifically bleach. You obviously do not have a clue, and you should really have that throat looked at if you get so many sore throats.

@#40, I get my share of sore throats in the winter. Low humidity in the house, (I don't snore, we need a brand new word for what I do, it's so much greater) open mouth while sleeping, GERD.
A bit of hypertonic saline sets things right when plain water rehydrating tissues works like a charm.

Of course, salt and water are chemicals. MMS obviously isn't a chemical, it's a unicorn fart.
Or something.

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by Chris (not verified)

Some other important questions: how big is "one drop"? 50uL? 500uL? Probably not 5uL, most people don't have anything small enough to make a drop that small (although if you had a lot of hypodermic needles lying around you could probably do it).
And how big are the drops of lemon juice? Fresh squeezed? What if you use Meyer lemons?
And what about the water? Tap water, spring water, rain water, distilled water, deionized water?

By JustaTech (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Ahh, Wzrd1 #41.

Magnesium citrate + half a teaspoon of baking soda stops GERD in it's tracks. Don't fall for the "purple pill" unless you wish to retardate a little bit more:

The results are potentially worrisome considering the number of elderly individuals who take PPIs (recent studies estimate more than one quarter of U.S. nursing home residents use them) and the devastating, difficult-to-treat effects of dementia...

inhibiting acid production could impair the cells' ability to break up the protein tangles that are thought to be related to dementia.…

@Gilbert, having the craps isn't my first goal in daily life. Magnesium citrate will do just that, not to mention that it's ambiguous in nature, due to multiple compounds that can fulfill that name.

As for "retardate", ROFLMAO! I can drop dozens of IQ points and still remain well above average in any score range.
Short term memory has taken a hit, but after being slammed in the head a number of times and an IED blast leaving everyone save myself unconscious, yeah, that's a confounder right there.

That said, I do enjoy the right foods to ensure that I do get enough magnesium, which is a rather important mineral.
I do have to watch calcium input, as I'll obviously be deficient in calcium absorption, due to prilosec dosing.
As I'm not calcium deficient, as proved by blood work, I'm fine, how are you?
I'll still not screw around with a saline laxative that I have no need for.*

*Feel free to imbue my response in a George Patton styled profanity laced response that the above would be included in. It's a personal trademark, just to ensure people underestimate my intelligence. :)
That, especially, as we've been in the upper 80's here, such a laxative would cause significant electrolyte imbalance and dehydration. Something that's a *really* bad idea.

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by Gilbert (not verified)

I’m sort of puzzled though that docs are Marxists, yet simultaneously worried about their profits. ?????

Don't overthink it. MMS = Health Freedom. Everything else is a list of shibboleths and Interchangeable signifiers to establish Mark's purity and sincerity to the cause.
Marxists = Obamacare = doctors = the Pharma-Medicine-Rationality-Complex = SCREEEE!!!

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

(Sorry, "Chris", not Mark)

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Ok, a bit off topic I know, but I'm curious.
Wzrd1 mentioned that Magnesium Citrate is a laxative. I happen to know that Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate) and Milk of Magnesia also have laxative effects. Is there something about magnesium that causes that?

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 01 Nov 2016 #permalink

Good Herr Doktor @30

Thanks for that.

I got trapped in some Matrix style recursion trying to contact Dorset Trading Standards anyway: they've "out-sourced" the initial contact bit to Citizens' Advice, so you have to go round in hoop-jumping circles to do anything...So I gave up.

Welcome to Tory Britain.

@Gilbert: seriously? They started with people already age 75 or older, followed them for 7 years - so now in their 80s - and saw an increase in dementia? Now granted, they tried to control for some information. But other causes that put people at risk - smoking, genetics - were not available.

DO try to fully understand something before you link to it, dear. Now, go and play quietly. The grownups are talking.

Assuming MMS were able to cure anything, where are all these cured people? Humble claims to have worked his magic on thousands of people suffering from AIDS. If this were so, why aren't there clinics in Africa screaming about this cure?

The answer to any reasonable person is that it doesn't work. The answer to crazy adherents of MMS is it's some massive conspiracy. A conspiracy involving everyone in the world except them.

Is there something about magnesium that causes that?

It causes water to be drawn into the small intestine as well as enhancing muscle contraction and rythm -- Tables used as a supplement are more of a stool-softener than a laxative; It keeps one regular. Stopping the supplementation after being 'aclimatized' to it can aggravate constipation.

Adam @51: Exactly! And if it really does work (it doesn't) but the MMS people are withholding it from those who could be cured, that's plain cruelty.

I love how there's also never any mechanism of action for how it's supposed to cure all these different things. But then again, maybe that's the point, that there is no mechanism, it really is just a miracle.

By JustaTech (not verified) on 02 Nov 2016 #permalink

To unpack the seemingly odd reference to Marx from troll-Chris:
I think the accusation is that docs are tools of a Marxist conspiracy, not Marxists themselves - 'useful idiots' who shortsightedly do the dirty long term work of establishing the new world order in return for short terms profits. However the sleepers have begin to awake and reject the "nasty vaccines, drugs, chemicals" pushed buy the Pharma Overloards (who are in turn controlled by the <strike.Jews Commies) in favor of MMS. Thus, the greedy docs are running scared because they're losing business.

Of course, outside the US, there are marxist doctors, and they're pretty damn cool. There has much to criticize about Cuba since the revolution, but not the health care, nor the fact that Cuban trained and supported doctors have brought modern medicine to any impoverished area of Latin America willing to let them in.

Then, there was that commie plot from Cuba, curing one form of lung cancer via a vaccine.*
Which, as the US wasn't recognizing Cuba, the US simply ignored the existence of said vaccine.
Well, until quite recently.
Thanks, Obama! ;)

*Hey, I'm all for anyone, regardless of socioeconomic, faith, creed or "race" plotting against disease. :D

By Wzrd1 (not verified) on 02 Nov 2016 #permalink

In reply to by sadmar (not verified)

The Church of Bleach seems to have adopted the pyramid-scheme business model from Scientology (was Jim Humble ever a Scientologist? It would explain a lot). You pay $50 per pay for a few weeks or months of "Sacramental Training" and then become ordained as a Bishop, with the authority to sell the Sacrament (and to harvest from the pockets of the next tier of suckers). Meanwhile sending money upwards in the pyramid for further initiation into the Arcana.

So naturally from the perspective of bleach scammers, it's everyone else who is motivated by greed.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 02 Nov 2016 #permalink

@ Sadmar

I think the accusation is that docs are tools of a Marxist conspiracy

It's also the result of two conspiracies colliding - like any good conspiracy theory, you have to mix contradictory elements.
- on one hand, you have Big Pharma pushing for more products to sell
- OTOH, you have the gov' pushing for more control over your life, by instituting socialized medicine

The former gives you the "all corrupt" element of the conspiracy, and the latter the "commie" aspect.

A reasonable person would see each element as mostly separate - and heterogeneous - entities just following their own purpose and entropy, for better or worse. Private companies trying to make money, and politicians trying to manage the country*.
A conspiracy theorist weaves these elements as a concerted effort to stifle him personally.

* on the matter of socialized medicine, The Pump Handle has reported recently a study in which, surprise**, states which invest more money into health service have a lesser number of people suffering from AIDS. However, investment into income support doesn't have much effect.
** as a French and thus, highly dependent on our commie*** "nanny state", I'm not that surprised, but I'm biased.
*** by certain North American standards

By Helianthus (not verified) on 02 Nov 2016 #permalink